- Location
- Actually pretty lost
In doing so we appear to have dropped one of the points that both plans being "compromised" actually agreed on, but I don't really have the energy to argue the point further.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
They did not agree though, one had Foundation+Gambler, one had Foundation on its own. Personally I find no Foundation more palatable than doing it without the Gambler, since we can apply the Gambler there next turn. Delay is a lot better than failure.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Plan Compromise was a hybrid of the top three plans at the time it was made.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
There were three plans being compromised not two, and Plan Pickle doesn't include foundations.
Resonant
Procrastinator Supreme
Not sure if this tidbit has been mentioned in Father-Coin theories yet, but Kupfer describing "Shadows stolen by Haletha" sounds awfully like it would fit the actions of Ranald's daughter. I still think there's some merit for looking into the Hedgewise, whether that's to recruit them into Waystone Project or just a social call.
I mean... we probably should not try to do a social call on people we are technically bound by the law to drag back to Aldorf for training or execute. Looking for help for the project is one thing, but just hanging out is likely to be awkward.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Stacking Advantages
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
No? This is just regular people, trying to do what is best for themselves.
Idk, I run across a lot of your posts that seem to assume that anything less than a super-high degree of trust and competence is treachery and failure, but that seems to be kinda naive about how people work in organizations in practice.
A Verenian with a new library is going to see a new fief that needs taking charge of, and I suspect wouldn't even realize their loyalties were to Verena over the charter unless they were slapped over the head with it. The point is that they are going to see the power and potential here, understand what having power here would mean in terms of position relative to all the other local heads of the Verenian cults.
It would be a good faith takeover by a faith that thinks what we are doing is supporting them, instead of then supporting us.
I honestly cannot think how this would work in good faith. How do you go from the present situation where most of the librarians are dwarfs to one where most of them are Veranans? Even if you can fill every new position with a Verenan (keeping in mind that this is the ass and of the world and not many of them are going to want to live out there library or no), the dwarfs are still in charge because they are the most senior and that is how their society works. You would literally have to wait for them to die to take their place and barring some sort of tragedy that will take centuries.
I mean think of what Belegar said when he considered our request for more than just Udumgi an dwarfs to be librarians. He says 'that will be a batter for the next king to contend with'. The next king of the dwarfs.... dwarfs live up to 200-250 years
Unless we have 30 dwarfs to put in senior positions over them, hell yes I would refuse them. Having the library primarily staffed by humans would damage our chances with the much more prickly guilds and institutions of the Karaz Ankor. Long term the library should be multi-species, but it pretty much has to start off primarily dwarf or we risk losing one of the major advantages of founding it here in the first place.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
And this is EXACTLY why I don't want to reach out to them UNTIL we staff up. Quinsberry is a political move in the meantime.
I still fail to see how the inclusion of a single halfling institution would make much of a difference then. With or without them the answer would be the same:
'We are sorry dwarfs are prickly don't you know. How about five librarians?'
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
The number of institutions included has nothing to do with how far along in the construction and staffing of the library we are. So it doesn't matter who we talk to in the meantime- for the sake of the argument- it matters that we wait until Mathilde has hired permenant staff as we voted to way back when.
So we approved the bookshelves, and we almost have the rooms, and we have copies of Mathilde's personal stuff pluss elfbooks. I figure permenant staff is next on the agenda after the masons and decorations are done, so just a turn or two of laying groundwork with booksellers and smaller cults.
I like Quinsberry because they are local and deserve to have the halfling records stored like an egg in a second basket- the way the colonists were described. Plus, having interspecies cross-references is probably going to be the main draw for scholars to come and stay and study- that's what we have that most places don't. So, leaning into that early for the marketing aspect too.
I am not seeing why we could not politely refuse an overwhelming number of Verenan librarians, given that this would be a blatant power play for control of an institution where they would hardly have any faithful otherwise. I want the Verenans now because the sooner we get them the sooner we can start trading books.... with you know the giant pile of books that I enumerated a few pages ago. By contrast there is no real difference if we get Quinsberry this turn or the next, the genealogy books will keep.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
No matter how politely we do it, turning down aid from the Verenans in building a library could be seen as a snub.
If they do not understand how offering to provide all the librarians in a dwarf Karak with all the dwarf lore in it is itself an insult... that is a problem on its own.
I can live with them making power plays, I can live with them being insulted over reasonable things. I cannot live with them being insulted over having a power play rebuffed.
I feel like this is trying to reshape the argument into making the Verenans seem unreasonable so just to make this clear. I do not think they would offer to provide all the librarians, because that would be a political faux pas on the scale of offering to man someone else's fortress with only your troops.
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SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
I do not think this will at all be an issue. The verenens may well want to insert a few of their own agents to act as librarians and frankly I think this is entirely fine.
- Location
- Poland
[X] Plan Compromise
Burned_Cookie
Very tired girl.
- Location
- Plato´s cave.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/It/Its
[X] Plan Compromise
Do people really think that inviting people whose institutions we want to rival in the future is not a bad idea?
Especially while we cant really meet them on close to equal terms?
I think its a bit of a reach to assume every verenan institution out there with which we will try to trade is made up of paragon verenans, why wouldn't a lot of them want to squeeze as much as they could out of KAU for personal prestige/knowledge etc. ?
[x] Plan Compromise
[x] Plan Waystone scrutiny, payments promised and Wind herding
Especially while we cant really meet them on close to equal terms?
I think its a bit of a reach to assume every verenan institution out there with which we will try to trade is made up of paragon verenans, why wouldn't a lot of them want to squeeze as much as they could out of KAU for personal prestige/knowledge etc. ?
[x] Plan Compromise
[x] Plan Waystone scrutiny, payments promised and Wind herding
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