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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Codex said:
These are people who have grinded the Library Science tech tree for hundreds of years,
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This excellent quote is provided by Boney by the way:
Boney said:
In an age before search engines it takes a lot of effort and ingenuity to make information actually accessible, and if it weren't for many centuries of Verenans grinding the library science tech tree Mathilde would probably be sorting her books by author instead of subject.
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It really stuck with me.
 
Codex said:
The more you delay getting them involved, the less they'll be able to get into the ground floor and the more time we go without their expertise. These are people who have grinded the Library Science tech tree for thousands of years, and not letting them get in into the ground floor during the construction phase seems odd to me. If they have advice to offer us about library construction, it's best to know it before we finalise the library, instead of rebuilding or expanding unnecessarily.

Dwarves have been building libraries for thousands of years, but those are all private. Verenans, even in their secrecy, are not nearly as conservative as the Dwarves. They almost certainly surpass the Dwarves in the concept of accessible and well constructed libraries for humans.
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I guess I get the 'ground floor' idea as far as getting librarians goes, but the wording of the option is 'Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries'. Once we start recruiting librarians I think we will probably have an option to get Verenans, with or without an agreement with their cult to share books. But I could be wrong in my interpertation of what the vote means.
 
[X] Plan Compromise + Verenan

When I was apart of that conversation, I was assuming they would be making a varent.

Plans have been changed before, yes, but usually not if they are winning, most of the time a varent was made out of respect that people vote and then don't keep up with the thread until the next vote or go to bed.
 
I want to follow Mathilde's professional opinion, and start the project at this point.

[x] Plan Starting up debt free
[x] Plan Stacking Advantages
- [x] MAX: Study an artefact: Kurgan enchanted weapons
- [x] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with one or more members of WEB-MAT (JOHANN)
-- [x] COIN: The Gambler
- [x] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (EGRIMM)
- [x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
- [x] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
- [x] Explore one of the Wards of Laurelorn: Frost
- [x] EIC: Try to uncover what's going on in Gryphon's Wood.
- [x] LIBRARY: Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Verenans)
- [x] SERENITY: Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
 
[X] Plan Compromise + Verenans

I've changed my mind. I'll approval vote both options unless Verena starts catching up, in which case I'll discard Compromise. I'd prefer that Compromise win over other plans, but I'd prefer Verena win over Quinsberry.
 
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[] Plan Compromise
[X] Plan Compromise + Verenans
[X] Plan Pickle's Political Protector Proposal

I'm honestly fine with either version of compromise, so I'm just adding this, and dropping options that, at this point, clearly have no chance of winning.
 
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[X] Plan Compromise + Verenans

The Verenans will not hesitate to buy into our library just because it's a new one, because I mean just look at the damn thing - it's huge. I do want to get the Quinsberrys in to preserve their knowledge eggs, but we can do that another turn and the Verenans have a foothold in four different nations so wide source of new books to come in.
 
[X] Plan Compromise
-[X] MAX: Learning: Rituals from the colleges. Mathilde pays gold costs.
-[X] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm
--[X] Shadowsteed & Clarity, allowing the user to ride all night without sleep
-[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (JOHANN)
-[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
-[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Frost)
-[X] Investigate Alric
-[X] EIC: Try to uncover what's going on in Gryphon's Wood.
-[X] LIBRARY: Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Quinsberry)
-[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
-[X] COIN: The Night Prowler
 
Why are we assuming the Verenans will actually get involved in building up the library beyond the sinple exchange of books from the option?
 
Since we're likely learning rituals for the next turn, a refresher on a sample space of 19 rituals of varying sources:
Codex said:
I thought it would be fun to go over all the rituals I've been able to find descriptions on. Note that many of them aren't really the type to be cast by the Colleges, as I'm including Necromancy, Daemonic and Divine rituals in here too. I hope this is helpful in showing examples to people of what rituals are like, including their ridiculous conditions, their effects and the possible backlash you'd get from casting it:

Daemonic. Very High difficulty. Requires at least 5 spellcasters, a full moon, the head of a Beastman shaman, two human sacrifices, one man and one woman both of whom haven't eaten in a week and a thimble of warpstone. Four hour casting time, if it fails the ritual backfires on the casters. Effect causes everyone within one mile with a WIllpower of less than 50% to turn into a beastman for 24 hours and go into a killing spree. The ritual reverts after 24 hours but anyone who survives doesn't come out mentally unscathed.
Arcane. High Difficulty. Requires a dragon's tooth, a diamond worth 500gc, a gong blessed by a dying priest and for the caster to be naked and painted with woad. Failing the ritual causes you to get swallowed by the earth. Eight hour casting time and a 3 mile range, the ritual affects an area equivalent to a small town. The ritual creates an earthquake lasting one minute that destroys all but the strongest buildings.
Arcane. Chamon only. I'm sure we all know what this does, Johann's done it. I'll copy paste the post I already made on it Gilding in relation to Johann:

Fingers and Toes are cosmetic, so he did them as part of Hands/Arm/Feet/Leg. Hands and Arms are separate processes, the Hands improving manual dexterity and the Arms improving Strength and increasing the Armor of your arm. The process is separate for each hand and arm, and I'm pretty sure Johann did it for each hand and arm instead of skimping on any of it.

Feet and Legs are also separate, and a separate process for the left and right ones. Feet grants bonuses to resisting fatigue on travel by foot, and leg grants armor of the Legs on top of boosting Movement. He probably did every single one of these.

There is no Torso Gilding in Realms of Sorcery for some reason, but I'm pretty sure that it should exist and Johann took it. He also took the Lung gilding which means he doesn't even need to breath air, which he told Mathilde that he uses on solo ventures, probably by using gas.

The Lung one is dangerous if failed, as it causes you pain every time you breath if you fail, but then we get to the very delicate part. The Head. The Head can either be done all at once, or separated into components such as Ear and Nose (eyes aren't included in the book for some reason, but it's clearly a thing). Ears improves hearing, Nose improves smell, and Eyes would logically improve sight. Head lets you gild everything at once, giving you the benefits of everything being gilded (improved senses overall) as well as boosted head armor. The downside is that it is one of two Gildings that results in instant death if failed.

There is another very dangerous gilding that results in instant death. The Heart. If you Gild it then you no longer feel emotional pain, which let me tell you I'm not sure if that's worth risking death.

The book only gives guidelines for these modifications, but you can get creative and gild more parts I'm pretty sure. The only ones in this list that are left for Johann are the Head ones and the Heart. After the disaster that happened with his eyes, I'm not sure if he's keen to possibly ruin his other senses, and I'm not sure he should risk death for the Head. The Heart is not worth it. Maybe he can do Liver or Kidneys or Intestines I guess. I'm pretty sure bones and muscles are linked to the limb in question so I don't think you can gild them directly unless it counts as a separate "organ".
Arcane. Very High difficulty. Effect causes a target to dance until they die. Anyone who looks at the dancer must attempt to resist or they will join the dance. Other conditions include an incredibly well made lute strung with hair from a unicorn's mane, five gallons of the blood of agile dancers, and one pair of dancing shoes made by the finest cobbler of the "realm he cobbles". The caster must also be a dancer to cast this. Finally, in order to curse someone the caster need to spend four hours casting while the target is held immobile. If the caster fails the casting, they dance until they're dead, but they don't cause anyone who looks at them to dance too. Only a Shallyan caster with Cure Insanity can stop the Dance. It should be reminded that the Dance infection only occurs by looking at the original cursed Dancer, not at the ones they infect.
Arcane. Medium difficulty. Requires the boots of 100 soldiers, one coin of the wages of each soldier who will travel, an eagle's wing, and an order for deployment written on flawless parchment in ink made from the troop commander's own blood. This ritual is pretty complicated, but basically, it's a teleportation ritual with a ton of caveats attached to it. You can cast it with one person, or you can cast it with multiple people with no upper limit. Bear with me here, because there's a lot to go through:

Essentially, you and whoever is helping you cast the ritual cast throughout "all the hours of darkness in one night". If you're successful, you teleport an entire group of individuals, including the casters."The march's objective may be any natural place in the Old World to which the body could eventually travel, unbarred, on foot". It's important to note that this teleportation is basically acceleration rather than traditional teleportation, so it actually counts as a "full night's hard march". At least half the people being teleported have to be soldiers. The number of people being teleported depends on the total magic scores of every caster involved in the ritual. Each caster is in charge of a portion of the group. Each caster who fails the cast suffers the consequence alongside their portion.

What are the consequence? You get transported to somewhere random anywhere in the world. There's a reason most soldiers who go through this spell really hate it. Many of them see their friends disappear.
Arcane. Medium Difficulty. Requires a sheet of parchment made from the skin of a stillborn lamb and bearing the exact words of the oath written in the blood of a judge, a drop of the oathbreaker's blood and spit, and a vial containing the breath of one wronged by the breaking of the oath. The ritual must be cast within one mile of the oathbreaker and the oathbreaker may not speak a word for the 4 hour casting time of the spell. If the ritual fails, then you're forced to carry out the oath yourself. If the ritual is a success, you force someone who has sworn an oath and has either broken it or intends to break it, even if they swore said oath in jest, under compulsion or when blind drunk, to carry it out in both letter and spirit to the best of their ability. They will not be suicidal in doing it and will be capable of holding back for the right opportunity, but they will fulfill it to the best of their ability.
Daemonic. Very High difficulty. Requires the whole and unhewn corpse of a Daemon of Nurgle, a forty-pound candle made with the drippings of three dozen men killed by the Neiglish Rot, brackish water collected from three foetid swamps at least one thousand miles from each other, and the hand of a mad surgeon. The caster must also have survived the Neiglish Rot at least once in their life. If they fail the ritual they contract Neiglish Rot and auto fail their saving throws, resulting in near guaranteed death over the course of the illness. If they succeed, everyone within one mile must test for toughness or contract Neiglish Rot. I'll talk about it later, but NR is pretty horrific, and it's very serious business to get infected by it.
Arcane: High Difficulty. Requires a drop of blood taken from a male of the line since the previous sunset, a fist-sized chunk of warpstone, a solid silver goblet worth at least 100 gc, and a stillborn goat. No member of the lineage the ritual is being cast on may be expecting child or an auto failure happens. A failure results in your lineage being affected instead. A success means every single person from a particular family related to the individual you're targeting by blood will be infertile for all time. You can choose to affect only men or only women. 8 hour casting time.
High Nehekharan. High Difficulty. Requires a piece of stone from a Nehekharan building, a map of the tower drawn with the blood of a mason, the skull of a Stone Troll. Caster must be capable of Stoneworking. Failure results in one hand turning to stone permanently. 4 hour casting time, this ritual causes a 50 foot tall building to spontaneously form. The layout is determined by the map drawn as part of the ingredients.
Necromantic. High Difficulty. Requires the sword arms of ten dead soldiers, a drum made of bones and Human skin, a fragment of Warpstone the size of a skull, and a barrel of rum. An assistant must continuously beat the bone drum while the four hour ritual takes place.The ritual raises up to 30 skeletons or zombies. The difference between these and standard undead is that they don't count towards how many undead the caster is limited to controlling, there is no time limit for them, and they listen to orders no matter how far they get from the caster. They remain even if the caster is slain. If the caster fails the ritual, the undead turn on them.
Arcane. Medium Difficulty. Requires the hearts of five followers of Khorne or Shallya or a combination of both, a Griffon's feather, a calf born in the last spring in the lands targeted. It must be cast on the highest ground in the area to be affected. Takes 4 hours to cast. Success means a rain of blood for one hour over an area of five square miles, feeding vampires on the march and disheartening the enemy. Failure means a rain of holy water instead.
High Nehekharan. Incredibly High difficulty. Requires the hands of a midwife, the last drop of a Human's blood, a Dragon's tooth, the womb of a cow raised on blood, the remains of a Vampire. 4 hour casting time, and it may only be cast on an "accursed location", which means an area where a large scale tragedy has taken place. Failure on the ritual causes the caster to suffer the same tragedy as those in the accursed area. A successful cast returns a Vampire to unlife. The caster need to not only be successful, but beat the casting roll by five. If the casting roll is not beaten by five, then the Vampire doesn't come back but difficulty lowers a little. The ritual can be attempted again in another accursed location that is at least 20 miles away. Each failed cast takes years away from the caster's life.
Necromancy. Medium Difficulty. Requires the birth caul of a sailor, a ship that sank with her crew, the hands of a drowned priest of Manann, a ship's manifest written in blood, a fist-sized chunk of Warpstone. Failure causes the caster to be tormented by visions of being drowned in an ocean of damned souls. Success in this four hour ritual means that a sunken ship rises from where it's resting place. There are as many skeletons or spectres as there were crew when it sank. The ship is as rotten as it was on the ocean floor but it rots no further. The ship needs no wind on its sails, it moves at an even speed regardless of weather.
Divine. Very High Difficulty. Requires a quart of blessed liquid (different cults prefer different liquids, including fresh water, brine, animal blood, and beer) and a holy symbol of your cult. The caster must purify themselves for a full week and then spend a further two days contemplating divine texts before drawing their holy symbol with the blessed liquid and casting for 1d10+4 hours. Casting becomes easier on holy days and holy ground. A failed cast causes the caster's god to retaliate viciously with their Vengeance. A successful one summons a divine servant, which differs based on the god and the variation of the ritual cast. This can summon a holy animal, a Venerated Soul, or an odd manifestation like a twin tailed comet for Sigmar and a Cat's Paw for Ranald. Whoever summons the Divine Servant has absolutely no control over it, and it does what it pleases. The caster must have a very good reason for summoning, or they will suffer the Wrath of the Gods.
Divine. Difficulty fluctuates based on the size of the area consecrated. The materials are variable but generally involve blessed liquid, holy symbol, sacrifice appropriate to the cult, a fitting site and sometimes more. Casters must purify themselves beforehand. Most widely known divine ritual. If properly cast it boosts all divine casters of the particular god within the consecrated area and holds certain implications against specific creatures like Vampires. If failed, the ritual makes it look like it worked but it didn't.
Divine. Sigmarite only. Shallyans have their own version called Rite of Casting Out. Ritual casts out a Daemon possessing someone. Medium Difficulty for the actual cast, the difficult part is the battle against the Daemon. Requires an illuminated copy of The Book of Sigmar, the sign of the hammer or twin-tailed comet, new Priestly vestments, rope and nails for binding, a vial of holy water, a hammer, a goat (or some other animal) or mirror, and a roaring fire. Also needs the Exorcist to spend three consecutive days prior to casting the ritual in meditation and prayer. Once they are finished, they gather their witnesses, one to see and watch, one to help, and at least one who is bound to the victim by blood or marriage. The helpers must bind the victim to a tree with stout rope and nails, while the Exorcist readies the animal (or mirror) to contain the fiendish entity. Failure results in the Daemon becoming more resistant to exorcism, or if a miscast occurs allows the Daemon to possess the exorcist. Success means the fight actually begins as the Exorcist and Daemon get into a battle of wills. The process is long and arduous and can end in either victory or defeat.
Daemonic. Medium difficulty. Ritual from the Codex of Unspeakable Damnation. Requires a bowl of the caster's blood, a sacrificial knife covered in Human excrement, and a Human sacrifice. The Human must be nude and painted in profane sigils and runes invoking the names of Tzeentch. The caster must forgo using magic for 8 hours and abstain from alcohol and stimulants for a week. Failure causes the caster to glimpse Chaos, blasting away sanity. Success draws the soul out of the victim, killing them in the process and turning the soul into a ball of stretchy ectoplasm. The ball lasts for a few weeks and can be expended at any point to boost a singular spell significantly. 1 hour casting time.
Arcane. Easy. 1 hour casting time. Requires the caster's body to be nude and covered in arcane sigils from head to toe with ink mixed from the caster's own blood and expensive compounds (20 gc). The ritual must be cast before sleep, and the caster must sleep in a circle made from a chaos follower or Daemon's blood. Daemon's blood boosts the spell, making it easier to cast. Failure causes the caster to suffer unadulterated Chaos, blasting sanity. Success in the ritual allows the user to transport their soul to the Aethyr into one of the Legendary Locations in the Realm of Chaos. The spirit form is invincible to harm but not insanity, and what is seen by the caster is likely to leave them disturbed. Seeing the Legendary Locations provides an unprecedented level of knowledge and understanding of Chaos. This ritual is from the non-redacted version of the Liber Malefic, available in the Cathedral of Sigmar's archives.
Daemonic. Every detail in this ritual varies based on the circumstances. Difficulty is determined by the power of the Daemon being summoned, casting time is dependent on the Daemon, ingredients are determined by the Daemon, and the consequences of failure are dependent on the Daemon and its power level. Generally the consequences are severe and involve insanity and mutation, and depending on the Daemon straight up death. Ritual can involve drawn Octagrams so the caster can make the process of containing the Daemon and contesting its willpower to gain control easier. If the caster has the Daemon's True Name, it makes things much easier as it allows direct summoning and proper containment, as well as domination of the Daemon in question. Certain Daemons can be bound as familiars. Well, technically any Daemon can be bound as a familiar as long as an agreement is reached, but there's a reason you don't try to bind strong Daemons as familiars.
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I think we're likely to focus on understanding the basics of rituals rather than actually learning any pre-set rituals, but I spent a lot of effort on that list so I like to bring it up. Most are unattractive tbh, with Impossible March of the Damned Soldier being the only one I'm really interested in.
 
[X] Plan Compromise + Verenans
I'm not one who generally vote in this quest, but I throw in a vote for the Verenans to help it gather steam.

As someone who doesn't have time to read all the many pages of discussion that raise in the thread, having the plan you voted for changed with no easy feedback about it in case you missed the edit or the discussion about it would be annoying, Variants creation are preferable.
 
Wait a second... you can technically make it rain holy water by failing the Rain of Blood ritual, something which can presumably be done on purpose. Er... how many Khornite hearts do the colleges have on ice in case of vampire invasion? :V
 
DragonParadox said:
Wait a second... you can technically make it rain holy water by failing the Rain of Blood ritual, something which can presumably be done on purpose. Er... how many Khornite hearts do the colleges have on ice in case of vampire invasion? :V
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Probably an oversight by the creator of the ritual since it was in Night's Dark Masters. Even if it wasn't, it's a Necromantic Ritual so it's likely to involve Dhar, so that makes it forbidden anyway.
 
Codex said:
Probably an oversight by the creator of the ritual since it was in Night's Dark Masters. Even if it wasn't, it's a Necromantic Ritual so it's likely to involve Dhar, so that makes it forbidden anyway.
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You are probably right... but if I were actually playing the RPG I would totally try to rules' lawyer that. That system is crazy enough that you have to take every advantage you get.
 
DragonParadox said:
Why would we not assume that? I mean they do like books and we have access to at least some books they flat out do not have.
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I think the point is that it's not clear that's what this particular voting option is for. There have been no votes about recruiting librarians so far, but when we do get to vote on that I imagine there will be an option to involve Verenans regardless of any book sharing agreements.
 
@Boney What would the results of voting to approach the Verenans look like? Would it be Mathilde approaching one of their libraries for a copy rights agreement? Trying to recruit some librarians? A subvote to decide on Mathildes approach/priorities?
 
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