Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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There are two scenarios where we might be able to use the Protector: the Alric investigation and the Gryphon's Wood investigation.
The Alric investigation is supposed to be subtle, so using the Protector there is literally worse than useless in that it draws attention to us - unless we invent an alter ego and use it to grow our secret identity's reputation. And why would we do that? When did we decide we want to do this, and why?
But it's even worse than that. The Gryphon's Wood investigation might cause us to discover something that needs to be taken care of, but the wording of the Protector is "When you act in a way that defends an individual or group from a danger". So it would only activate in the Gryphon's Wood if we take care of some sort of dangerous problem we know literally nothing about except that an army is mobilizing to deal with it, and if we do so in the very turn we learn it's nature. It's not impossible, but it's not very likely either. Activating it in the Alric investigation likely means figuring out what is behind whatever Alric is investigating and taking care of it ourselves to steal Alric's credit, which is sabotaging Alric and isn't what we agreed to do. There was a vote, and we voted to just investigate. Moreover, the only 'individual or group' we know for sure we will be protecting in that case are the Unfähigers, and the undying gratitude of the family of literally the worst emperor in living memory isn't all that valuable.
The Alric investigation is supposed to be subtle, so using the Protector there is literally worse than useless in that it draws attention to us - unless we invent an alter ego and use it to grow our secret identity's reputation. And why would we do that? When did we decide we want to do this, and why?
But it's even worse than that. The Gryphon's Wood investigation might cause us to discover something that needs to be taken care of, but the wording of the Protector is "When you act in a way that defends an individual or group from a danger". So it would only activate in the Gryphon's Wood if we take care of some sort of dangerous problem we know literally nothing about except that an army is mobilizing to deal with it, and if we do so in the very turn we learn it's nature. It's not impossible, but it's not very likely either. Activating it in the Alric investigation likely means figuring out what is behind whatever Alric is investigating and taking care of it ourselves to steal Alric's credit, which is sabotaging Alric and isn't what we agreed to do. There was a vote, and we voted to just investigate. Moreover, the only 'individual or group' we know for sure we will be protecting in that case are the Unfähigers, and the undying gratitude of the family of literally the worst emperor in living memory isn't all that valuable.
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Burned_Cookie
Very tired girl.
- Location
- Plato´s cave.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/It/Its
Nope. The idea is usurping his thing.
He found something. If we can pull the rug out under him, get the fame instead, and solve the problem in one swoop… well, the new Magister Matriarch would most certainly be greatful, and so would the people.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
LOTS of assumptions getting thrown around...
We don't know what the mission to spot on Alric will consist of. It might be a series of parties, it might be a dungeon dive. Assuming we know what the assignment is and so assuming that we know what *won't* be encountered send foolish and like a repeat of us running of with the ice witch, wishing we had brought backup too late.
Likewise, we don't know what is in griffon wood. Something with enough punch to require an army though, and if it weren't for the light order's ability to reveal hidden things, I'd be afraid of Egrimm getting ambushed.
Either way, I want people with us.
We don't know what the mission to spot on Alric will consist of. It might be a series of parties, it might be a dungeon dive. Assuming we know what the assignment is and so assuming that we know what *won't* be encountered send foolish and like a repeat of us running of with the ice witch, wishing we had brought backup too late.
Likewise, we don't know what is in griffon wood. Something with enough punch to require an army though, and if it weren't for the light order's ability to reveal hidden things, I'd be afraid of Egrimm getting ambushed.
Either way, I want people with us.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
Not this turn. Usurping his thing would be sabotage, and it's not what we voted for. We choose only to investigate, and don't know anything about what Alric is doing.
Again, there was a vote, and we voted otherwise:
The option that won was to investigate Alric, not to 'indirectly interfere with whatever it is Alric is up to'.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
OK, so the vote's been open for about 18 hours, which is about the usual time when compromise plans start appearing that resolve the various objections that people have to the frontrunners. Here is my short list of the major issues in contention:
So, my questions to the thread: am I missing any big-ticket issues that we need to resolve? and is there a configuration out there on these major issues that makes more people happier than the current plans in the wild?
- Investigate Alric: solo, with Egrimm, or with someone else?
- Coin: Gambler or something fancy? Gamble on the thing we know we need to get right or the thing that is wildly uncertain?
- Ward of Frost: Try to learn about them or try to bring them in?
So, my questions to the thread: am I missing any big-ticket issues that we need to resolve? and is there a configuration out there on these major issues that makes more people happier than the current plans in the wild?
At this point any plan that at the very least puts the Gambler on the foundation has my vote. I do think Johann will make a mess of the investigation if we roll even mildly low, but at the end of the day I do not care that much about that. What is Alric going to do, crawl to Dragonas to complain about the Grey wizard looking into his affairs?
Whether or not to [ ]lay the foundations is kind of a big deal. It's probably currently not getting any discussion because the two top plans both do it, but the third runner up just tied with the second runner up and it doesn't include it.
Burned_Cookie
Very tired girl.
- Location
- Plato´s cave.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/It/Its
Those were votes on our promises, I was strictly against it in case there is no morally good way to keep him from his prise. If the opertunity presents itself though…
Edit: Oh and any Foundations plan won't get my vote.
What opportunity would that be? If you learn of a threat that needs dealing with, what moral standing do you have to not ask the help of an incredibly powerful wizard that is currently investigating it?
If we discover a problem so pressing that it needs to dealt with right now I will absolutely vote to deal with it. And I will also absolutely vote against deliberately interfering with Alric's efforts to deal with it for political reasons.
Burned_Cookie
Very tired girl.
- Location
- Plato´s cave.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/It/Its
But if the coin is on protector… Mathilde gets the credit. And that's more than wnough sabotage to his plans.
When the coin informed the dwarves of Karag Vlag of our efforts, it also informed them of the efforts of the entire expedition. Either we let Alric help, in which case he gets credit through the coin, or we deliberatly interfere with an agent of an Empire for political reasons. There is no middle ground here.
I believe the moral argument is thus: 'Alric is an awful person and a bad leader and should never be in charge of anything ever' so us stealing his credit, as long as we actually handle the threat is a net moral good.
The middle ground is we do it alone without telling him what we know, that is hardly interference.
I am not familiar with Warhammer. Is it expected that they will join on their own? What would be the point of learning about them and then recruiting them, instead of the other way around? While we're not exactly running against the clock, why are they worth the 2 AP that will be spent learning and recruiting them?
Are they dubious in some way? Is it like Egrimm where they did something bad later in Canon?
I don't think we should publicly meddle in politics, if we claim the credit personally as Mathilde Weber.
We have no business or axe to grind with Alric, the guy gave us Egrimm. This is light order business, this is from favor trading from Mira. Alric still has a faction in Altdorf, so we're making more enemies here. Also openly opposing him would have been the same as taking the one point favor to publicly denounce him.
I just don't think we have the motive or reason to oppose him like that.
The thing is that you can't know in advance wheter or not you'll manage to deal with something. You try, and then you fail or you don't fail. And intentionally not using the help of someone as powerful as Alric rises the risk that you will fail.
But of course this is all completely hypothetical because we don't know that we will solve the mystery Alric has been investigating for months, and if we do we don't know what kind of threat it will reveal and whether or not we will be able to deal with it on the same turn, and in any case fucking up Alric's investigation is explicitly not what we voted to do.
Can someone explain to me why we have max research the kurgan weapons if we... Oh I don't know... Could finally learn how to use the damn gyrocopter we have that has been covering dust in karak eight peak?
Also I don't feel we are quite ready for starting of the waystone thing (i am thinking next turn though) so
[X] Plan Pickle's Political Protector Proposal
Gets my vote for now.
(but seriously, we have a gyrocopter and no one wants to make use of the damn thing...)
Also I don't feel we are quite ready for starting of the waystone thing (i am thinking next turn though) so
[X] Plan Pickle's Political Protector Proposal
Gets my vote for now.
(but seriously, we have a gyrocopter and no one wants to make use of the damn thing...)
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- Location
- Oklahoma
If we're putting the coin on Alric anyways I don't see why we wouldn't use the side specifically made for stealth in urban areas.
Well yes, but given Alaric's known track record of staggering incompetence, I think we can just generally assume that Mathilde can handle most threats better than him.
Oh and when I say staggering incompetence in this context I mostly mean the Night of a Thousand Arcane Duels and stealing Horstman's credit for years. I think we have good odds of being able to steal his credit and i would vote to steal it for free. The only thing we voted for was not to get paid by Mira for the action which them would have come with the obligation to do so.
Ok, as with the Johann issue, I think I am done talking about this. The arguments have been made, everyone can decide for themselves what's the correct choice.
While I also like the Gyro option, I think the reason is that Kurgan would help with waystone research. Also while gyro has a been an option since a while ago, research papers are subject to urgency because of the memory mechanic. Gyro isn't also that high in priorities to make a decisive enough difference. We'd have to build a landing pad and our shadowsteed hasn't been slow enough to give us trouble yet.
We might also have trouble with using gyrocopters in Laurelorn? Maybe, probably not.
How tf would the weapons help with waystones? And yes, our shadows steed is pretty neat. It totally sucks ass if we want to have a group bigger then one... And we only need a landing pad if we want it close to the tower (though we probably should build one)
And the fading of memories is kinda not a big deal because we already have so much favour. We don't need to write a research paper for literally everything...