- Location
- South Africa
This is my opinion. However, I am not sure if we can pre-ask Ranald and I am not sure if Faith will result in any possibility of expanding the finger print collection.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
If you want to pursue this line of research, vote to pursue this line of research with [ ] Truth.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
My real question is what Ranald would do with it. Because I doubt we'll still get to study this on our own, but I can't really see him just taking the symbolism and faith, rewarding us, and then leaving the fact that this was at all possible completely alone. Now he will know how to commit copyright infringement against other gods. Which is… rather useful for a trickster god.
I don't think I agree with what you are saying here at all.
I think Faith is just opening up another avenue of research or exploration or magic (or divine magic)!
I think it is a way to start doing research with Ranald's cooperation/approval/assistance/whatever on it, potentially.
Look at that. It says "sacrifice the crystal to Ranald." What do you think the effects of sacrificing it would be? I think the most obvious outcome would be "Well, if Ranald wasn't aware before, he is now." And then, he gets a choice of what to do. And he can either help out a bit, or... well, he can feed off the energy and not much else I guess. The latter would be a bit of an annoying thing to have happen, because we wouldn't so easily be able to see what the outcomes of that would be, but... Even in the case that he just got powered up by it, I still think there'd be something that could come of it; namely, the fact that we'd be doing the equivalent of recharging an Anvil of Doom for Ranald. Meaning that he'd probably be able to spend that energy on helping us out in return. So, it seems reasonable to assume that we might see improved Coin effects or the like perhaps. Or the equivalent of being able to have Ranald sometimes bend causality in your favor, like how he bent odds for Heidi, except lesser in scope.
But anyway, that's just assuming that sacrificing it to him just feeds him a bit of energy, and doesn't lead to any further Mystic-esque research.
I'm still of the opinion that "Faith" is a potential research tree.
This is why I said that I disagreed with what your posts said; because your posts are saying "Guys, this is an either/or situation; either we continue learning and prodding, or we don't." And the reason I disagree with that, is that I think that Faith has a path to poke and prod and do and act and etc, too.
And, given the option of having our Oldest Friend's blessing, versus going it alone as researching it all on our lonesome? I'd rather have Ranald as a co-conspirator.
[ ] Ascension
Swallow the shard of crystallised divine energy.
Swallow the shard of crystallised divine energy.
Ok, I am just going to lay out my thoughts for each option
[ ] Truth
This is potientaly the pursuit of godhood. If we manage to learn enough and replicate it with our signiture then we ourselfves could acend to godhood. this is obviously a huge draw but the downsides of this are many, we are likely to have every human god and the chaos gods attention when its found out, and it will be found out. The gods will either hinder or help us in this but I find it likely that the majority would not be happy with us and could end up with a crusade against all wizardkind to ensure it can never happen again. Ranold would also be the first to find out and be angry that we did not trust him enough to tell him what we found.
this could also go horribly wrong for us even if we were to get enough information to try and even if we were to succed and we accend then, congrats we would end up in the ather potientally surrounded by hostile gods. so I vote no to this option.
[ ] Faith
This option I feel is the path of permission. by sacrificing the crystal we draw our personal gods attention to it, he will then get back to us as to if we should persue this or if he feels its a bad idea. if he gives the go ahead then great we have a god on our side, if he does not then he might be willing to explain why. As such I feel this is the best option.
[ ] Prudence
This option is the scorced earth of the options, we basically try to hide what we did and ensure it never again comes to light. while this option has the advantage of basically removing the danger from this discovery, it also takes away the advantages. and somehow I feel this is the kind of discovery that cannot be hidden, someone or somegod (most likely a certain bird found of plans) would find out and no one will believe we just decided to destroy all the notes and knowledge. so I would say no to this option
[ ] Truth
This is potientaly the pursuit of godhood. If we manage to learn enough and replicate it with our signiture then we ourselfves could acend to godhood. this is obviously a huge draw but the downsides of this are many, we are likely to have every human god and the chaos gods attention when its found out, and it will be found out. The gods will either hinder or help us in this but I find it likely that the majority would not be happy with us and could end up with a crusade against all wizardkind to ensure it can never happen again. Ranold would also be the first to find out and be angry that we did not trust him enough to tell him what we found.
this could also go horribly wrong for us even if we were to get enough information to try and even if we were to succed and we accend then, congrats we would end up in the ather potientally surrounded by hostile gods. so I vote no to this option.
[ ] Faith
This option I feel is the path of permission. by sacrificing the crystal we draw our personal gods attention to it, he will then get back to us as to if we should persue this or if he feels its a bad idea. if he gives the go ahead then great we have a god on our side, if he does not then he might be willing to explain why. As such I feel this is the best option.
[ ] Prudence
This option is the scorced earth of the options, we basically try to hide what we did and ensure it never again comes to light. while this option has the advantage of basically removing the danger from this discovery, it also takes away the advantages. and somehow I feel this is the kind of discovery that cannot be hidden, someone or somegod (most likely a certain bird found of plans) would find out and no one will believe we just decided to destroy all the notes and knowledge. so I would say no to this option
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Ranald is also the god of actual thieves, and as theft goes this is rather petty, as @Boney put it above it is copyright infringement. i think he can live with that.
- Location
- Somewhere with a Thousand Watchful Eyes
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I'm torn between Faith and Truth, which is a wildly dramatic statement out of context.
On the one side, Ranald is our "oldest friend". If we suspect he'd be opposed to this, then we really shouldn't just on grounds of not being dickheads. On the other, would he oppose this? Would he be mad for stealing the secrets of divinity when that's basically his origin story?
And then there's the more practical aspect of how deep the imprint our ass would make on the earth's crust by falling from grace due to our hubris. Could we really 'declare war against the secrecy of the Gods and the Cults' and live to tell the tale? Would we become a cautionary tale?
I'm leaning towards Faith, but Truth feels like too big of an opportunity to miss.
On the one side, Ranald is our "oldest friend". If we suspect he'd be opposed to this, then we really shouldn't just on grounds of not being dickheads. On the other, would he oppose this? Would he be mad for stealing the secrets of divinity when that's basically his origin story?
And then there's the more practical aspect of how deep the imprint our ass would make on the earth's crust by falling from grace due to our hubris. Could we really 'declare war against the secrecy of the Gods and the Cults' and live to tell the tale? Would we become a cautionary tale?
I'm leaning towards Faith, but Truth feels like too big of an opportunity to miss.
- Location
- The Space Between
Boney said Faith is gonna cut off this line of research? Guess we're having our Nagash moment and going Truth on em
and we're not even resurrecting Abelheim. Omegahugger is gonna be sad
or maybe happy that we're taking our first step past "The Line"?
this can only possibly end badly, or in a Verenan hall with a VERY upset Verena letting us unload our research before ultimately deciding to explode us
and we're not even resurrecting Abelheim. Omegahugger is gonna be sad
or maybe happy that we're taking our first step past "The Line"?
this can only possibly end badly, or in a Verenan hall with a VERY upset Verena letting us unload our research before ultimately deciding to explode us
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A good example of how Gods typically feel about unauthorized duplication of intellectual property is Prometheus.
Ahem...
I think that is as clear as it gets, if you want research choose research, not try to have your cake and eat it too.
Technically we are not stealing from the gods of order. Those are totally different set of gods (the order gods in warhammer are things like the gods of gravity, time, etc, phyical things that never needed worship, they ae just as nasty as the chaos gods in some ways though), we would be stealing from the gods of humans. but I agree we shouldnt do this behind our best friends back
- Location
- florida
Today fingerprints, tommorow the shitty copypasted OCs of The chaos gods!
I know right? How great would that be? Aside from starting a deception arms race.
I would imagine this merits a sit down.
Given... everything unless Ranald already knew this was possible and had plans for how to use it or not use it.
It's an insanely powerful tool of deception, but It could also seriously fuck things up.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Ranald's origin story isn't that he stole divinity.
His origin story, his greatest trick, is that he made people think he was ever mortal:
"And I said: Can you tell me the tale of Ranald, and how he achieved Godhood?
And the child replied: Yes. The Greatest Trick. A well-known tale. Ranaldans claim that, when mortal, Ranald was a bandit; a gentle soul who robbed from the rich and gave to the poor. This so enchanted Shallya that she fell in love, ensnared by the romance of Ranald's deeds.
One night, when distributing supplies to victims of the Fly Lord, Ranald fell dreadfully ill, and was approached by Morr. Shallya could not bear the loss of her love, so she stole Ranald from her father's grasp in the only way she knew how: she let him drink from her holy Chalice, and granted him immortality.
Ranald, now a God, laughed at Shallya's naivety. He admitted to the crying Goddess that he had never been sick at all, and that he had manipulated her from the beginning.
And I said: So, the tale is true?
And the child replied: No. It is false. The greatest trick Ranald ever pulled was convincing Humanity that he had ever been one of them."
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- Location
- Somewhere, probably Earth
So, to be clear, there is no reality in which getting found out after picking 'Truth' has Ranald not pissed at us.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Copyright isn't even a thing yet in the era of Warhammer Fantasy, or it shouldn't be. The very idea itself is the result of the company that was in charge of all censorship in england trying to keep their publishing monopoly when the censorship laws loosened.
- Location
- Red Blood on Golden Shield
Well, I found it useful...
Since QM just said
I believe quite clearly the research option is truth and that's it.
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Depends on which part of the cult you agree with. He might always have been a god or he might have stolen his divinity. He is certainly not telling.
Asheram
Not quite altogether
- Location
- Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
I'm partial to Faith in this case, and sacrificing it back to Ranald. If we get his blessing for this down the road and we can be certain we haven't overstepped, then we can replicate it.
On a separate note, remember how we mused about capturing Waaagh energy for study and for teaching purposes? Reckon we've got a way now.
On a separate note, remember how we mused about capturing Waaagh energy for study and for teaching purposes? Reckon we've got a way now.
Yes if we choose Truth, if we choose Faith we are never stealing another divine fingerprint. It could not be more clear that Faith is not Truth with more steps, it is cutting off the research chain, only unlike prudence in a way that gives us some kind of boon from Ranald for our act of submission.
Actually a version Copyright did exist even before then in the real world, it just instead of lawyers turning up, it was a bunch of angry men that burned your house down possibly with you still in it. I think there was quite a few examples during the time of alchemy where masters found that others had discovered the same thing as them.
Mathilde knows Ranald better than most, but knowing in advance how Ranald would feel about this specifically would require an incredibly intimate understanding of Him that Mathilde lacks, and perhaps no mortal has ever held. It's a question of trust and faith and identity and the nature of the divine with a whole bunch of unknown factors.
[x] Faith
Sacrifice the crystal to Ranald, ask to be allowed to steal the secrets of divinity.
This is a ritual, a heist as much as as it is an experiment.
Sacrifice the crystal to Ranald, ask to be allowed to steal the secrets of divinity.
This is a ritual, a heist as much as as it is an experiment.