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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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DragonParadox said:
Like imagine Lord Royce gets a letter in which his daughter the Inquisitorial agent, talks about that time she helped take down an actual cult and she explains what a black knight is and how they are used tactically. How does the lord with his cultural context explain what an inquisitorial strike team is in a way that does not (in his eyes) paint the Imperator as dishonorable.
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Who he's being dishonorable to?

Not everyone deserves honor. Bandits are summarily executed on the spot the world over because they have lots of time to commit atrocities and none but perhaps the locals in some places want them around.

It's just that most people don't have the temerity to treat supernatural horrors as an "infestation" instead of something out of Bram Stoker.
 
[X] Sword before Book: Noble protectors of the realm

Westeros has a much better image of knights over clerks. If we make them out to be clerks, people will be less likely to listen to an inquisition member without a show of force. We want people to be afraid of the inquisition and the consequences of going against it.
 
Crake said:
Who he's being dishonorable to?

Not everyone deserves honor. Bandits are summarily executed on the spot the world over because they have lots of time to commit atrocities and none but perhaps the locals in some places want them around.

It's just that most people don't have the temerity to treat supernatural horrors as an "infestation" instead of something out of Bram Stoker.
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This is not about any dishonor to the people being targeted, but rather a broader sense that in making an institution as powerful, as prone to lie and to keep secrets as the inquisition Viserys is codifying a breach of social norms and thus honor. It's sort of like making your master of whispers the Hand... just not done.

Now keep in mind Royce does not actually believe this, he has been given the score on supernatural dangers up to and including the sundering, but he just does not know how to explain all this without seeming disloyal since to someone steeped in conventional westerosi morals these would look less like statements of fact and more like accusations.
 
[X] Leave things as is. Perhaps start informing at least some more of the nobility, and perhaps also some other major members in Westerosi society, about at least some of the threats that the Inquisition, among others, faces? That might help things?
 
TonedMite said:
[X] Leave things as is. Perhaps start informing at least some more of the nobility, and perhaps also some other major members in Westerosi society, about at least some of the threats that the Inquisition, among others, faces? That might help things?
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There is already communication on all levels to try to explain what the inquisition does, the trouble is that it has not been working so well for the reasons Azel summarized above
 
Artemis1992 said:
[X] Keep things as is, the citizens of the Western Provinces will have to get used the seeming paradox


So, we just show them Bloodraven and everyone will understand?

Not like it mind, not at all, but understand.
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Thing to keep in mind is that Bloodraven was like the boogieman, and the nobles did not like it at all. A lot of the 'ooooh he's a sorcerer, super scary!' was an embellishment of the truth. Yes, he was that, but the thing that made the nobility shit their pants was that he used it to do mundane things... like be exceedingly competent at leveraging their dirty laundry against them to do his bidding and shore up the power of House Targaryen, and he did it in a way that leaned on "Intrigue specced build" instead of the usual "Diplomacy Support / Martial DPS" build.

The meta of the time was the latter two, with the former going against the meta heavily and being busted.

It's less busted now because the playing field is more even, with more people having magic and "InfoSec" starting to enter into general consciousness, but the whole idea is founded on the principle that Bloodraven didn't respect their status, because he was a Royal Bastard in both senses of that word, and he used tools that they couldn't respond to in order to manipulate them.

It's just faster and more satisfying to say they hate him because he was a scary witch person.

@DragonParadox can confirm as much.
 
The vote is really close so I''m going to leave it up a while longer and to an interlude.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jul 30, 2021 at 12:50 PM, finished with 35 posts and 13 votes.
  • [X] Sword before Book: Noble protectors of the realm
    [X] Keep things as is, the citizens of the Western Provinces will have to get used the seeming paradox
    [X] Book before Sword: Humble servants of the realm
    [X] Leave things as is. Perhaps start informing at least some more of the nobility, and perhaps also some other major members in Westerosi society, about at least some of the threats that the Inquisition, among others, faces? That might help things?
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Interlude MCCXXXIX: East of West
  • Threadmarks
    • East of West ​

    Fifth Day of the Twelfth Month 294 AC

    In many ways the shores of the Narrow Sea made for the most fertile soil in which to place the ideas and institutions of the Imperium. Here mercantile traditions were common, if not in all places favored by the lords of the land, and it was not uncommon to see visitors from abroad. That it was also a hotbed of loyalty for the Imperial House of course did not hurt. A great many of those who had left the coast in search of a new life in Sorcerer's Deep when it was yet a place unknown and shrouded in peril were now returning with an imperial education, or at the very least with the experience of the capital. They also brought with them savings to match what was by all accounts the richest city in the realm when divided per capita, as the Ministry of Trade and Taxation both assessed such things, to the surprise of some lords and the thoughtful consideration of others.

    That was not to say there was no trouble to be hand. Indeed the largest diabolic coven yet found in Westeros after the pacification held its dark rites not five leagues from High Tide, in what might have been a rather embarrassing discovery for the Steward of the Imperial Lands.

    Parion Dyodrys ensured that they were seen off into the embrace of the Ferryman without the fanfare or public scrutiny they clearly craved. 'She bears the chains of the Beast and He shall devour her!' one of them had shouted at the judge in the middle of their deposition. Apparently that meant Valaena Velaryon, who bore a reforged devil's chain.

    More troubling was the fact that the cult did not know who they truly served, and not just in the usual manner of madmen hooking fools and pulling them over the edge of reason and sanity. None of them knew and all thought they served the Father, though even cursory examination of the arcane paraphernalia present at the site indicated the worship of the Lord of the Third, apparently the 'Father of Greed' among many of his titles. A baatezu cult based primarily upon the fear that the Imperator was himself some sort of devil or pawn of Hell was enough to give Parion a headache, but then that was why he was not a wizard.... well that and the fact that he was terrified of the sight of his own blood.

    Things had not gone quite so well at the mouth of the Salmonwater where it was soon evident that the nobles of the Vale were not the only ones inflicted with stiff necks, and nor were the common folk the only ones suffering the self-inflicted wounds of superstition. They had apparently contrived a suspicion of the triton-folk and of the Merling King all at once, which had only been set to rest with long and draw out mediation which slowed the process of setting the guild bylaws in accordance with Imperial Law to an almost unbearable crawl.

    'Almost is not the gleam of a dragon's eye', as they said in Tolos, and all was well that ended in budget and on time, though the minister suspected that the guilds drive to seek a form of 'personhood' under the law which would end in all sorts of legal tangles.

    Bring Imperial Law to the Western Provinces:
    Driftmark:     84 (Success)
    Dragonstone:     87 (Success)
    Salmonwater:     34 (Success)

    OOC: Previous vote is still open, this is just the chance to see some more of the background stuff that is happening in the Imperium.
     
  • Threadmarks
    • DragonParadox said:
    More troubling was the fact that the cult did not know who they truly served, and not just in the usual manner of madmen hooking fools and pulling them over the edge of reason and sanity. None of them knew and all thought they served the Father, though even cursory examination of the arcane paraphernalia present at the site indicated the worship of the Lord of the Third, apparently the 'Father of Greed' among many of his titles. A baatezu cult based primarily upon the fear that the Imperator was himself some sort of devil or pawn of Hell was enough to give Parion a headache, but then that was why he was not a wizard.... well that and the fact that he was terrified of the sight of his own blood.
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    Mammon! :D I'm so happy to see he didn't sulk in Hell forever. More chance for devil names!
     
    DragonParadox said:
    'Almost is not the gleam of a dragon's eye', as they said in Tolos, and all was well that ended in budget and on time, though the minister suspected that the guilds drive to seek a form of 'personhood' under the law which would end in all sorts of legal tangles.
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    Crake said:
    It is always nice to see people living down to expectations.
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    I know right? You expect someone to actually ask "wait this doesn't match up with the rest of the faith, should we double check some stuff?" but then those folks probably don't make good cultists.
     
    Evaunit02mark1 said:
    I know right? You expect someone to actually ask "wait this doesn't match up with the rest of the faith, should we double check some stuff?" but then those folks probably don't make good cultists.
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    Another reason for compulsory education (without removing the Critical Thinking aspects of it like the US has). Uplifted peasants removes some of the common pitfalls to any burgeoning advanced society... just as it creates new ones.
     
    have we made any work towards setting up knightly and paladin orders, the knightly orders would go along way to dealing with all those hedge knights who turn into Robber knights not to mention a good place for houses to dump their excess sons in addition to providing heavy cavalry auxiliaries to the legion perhaps also setting up knightly schools were class like paragon knight and Occult slayer are taught as well , paladin is class the noble culture is westeros is basically build to accommodate with stuff like paladins of good , law ,lawful good ,lawful evil and of course paladins of specific gods as well for every flavor of noble . they would go along way to integrating the nobles of Westeros through co-opting their existing culture

    also did we get any news on those Westerland nobles best Coatl is helping recover , I kind of holding out hope that they are so grateful that they convert on the spot and become his fist paladins
     
    mmgaballah said:
    have we made any work towards setting up knightly and paladin orders, the knightly orders would go along way to dealing with all those hedge knights who turn into Robber knights not to mention a good place for houses to dump their excess sons in addition to providing heavy cavalry auxiliaries to the legion perhaps also setting up knightly schools were class like paragon knight and Occult slayer are taught as well , paladin is class the noble culture is westeros is basically build to accommodate with stuff like paladins of good , law ,lawful good ,lawful evil and of course paladins of specific gods as well for every flavor of noble . they would go along way to integrating the nobles of Westeros through co-opting their existing culture

    also did we get any news on those Westerland nobles best Coatl is helping recover , I kind of holding out hope that they are so grateful that they convert on the spot and become his fist paladins
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    The one Knightly Order we're sponsoring is Waymar's Griffon Rider Order. With a supporting contingent of Hippogriff Riders.
     
    DragonParadox said:
    East of West ​

    Fifth Day of the Twelfth Month 294 AC

    In many ways the shores of the Narrow Sea made for the most fertile soil in which to place the ideas and institutions of the Imperium. Here mercantile traditions were common, if not in all places favored by the lords of the land, and it was not uncommon to see visitors from abroad. That it was also a hotbed of loyalty for the Imperial House did not hurt, of course. A great many of those who had left the coast in search of a new life in Sorcerer's Deep when it was yet a place unknown and shrouded in peril were now returning with an Imperial education, or at the very least with the experience of the capital. They also brought with them savings to match what was, by all accounts, the richest city in the realm when divided per capita, as the Ministry of Trade and Taxation both assessed such things, to the surprise of some lords and the thoughtful consideration of others.

    That was not to say there was no trouble to be had. Indeed, the largest diabolic coven yet found in Westeros after the pacification held its dark rites not five leagues from High Tide, in what might have been a rather embarrassing discovery for the Steward of the Imperial Lands.

    Parion Dyodrys ensured that they were seen off into the embrace of the Ferryman without the fanfare or public scrutiny they clearly craved. 'She bears the chains of the Beast and He shall devour her!' one of them had shouted at the judge in the middle of their deposition. Apparently, that meant Valaena Velaryon, who bore a reforged devil's chain.

    More troubling was the fact that the cult did not know who they truly served, and not just in the usual manner of madmen hooking fools and pulling them over the edge of reason and sanity. None of them knew and all thought they served the Father, though even cursory examination of the arcane paraphernalia present at the site indicated the worship of the Lord of the Third, apparently the 'Father of Greed' among many of his titles. A baatezu cult based primarily upon the fear that the Imperator was himself some sort of devil or pawn of Hell was enough to give Parion a headache, but then that was why he was not a wizard.... well, that and the fact that he was terrified of the sight of his own blood.

    Things had not gone quite so well at the mouth of the Salmonwater, where it was soon evident that the nobles of the Vale were not the only ones inflicted with stiff necks, and neither were the common folk the only ones suffering the self-inflicted wounds of superstition. They had apparently contrived a suspicion of the triton-folk and of the Merling King all at once, which had only been set to rest with long and draw out mediation which slowed the process of setting the guild bylaws in accordance with Imperial Law to an almost unbearable crawl.

    'Almost is not the gleam of a dragon's eye', as they said in Tolos, and all was well that ended within budget and on time, though the minister suspected that the guilds' drive to seek a form of 'personhood' under the law which would end in all sorts of legal tangles.

    Bring Imperial Law to the Western Provinces:
    Driftmark:     84 (Success)
    Dragonstone:     87 (Success)
    Salmonwater:     34 (Success)

    OOC: Previous vote is still open, this is just the chance to see some more of the background stuff that is happening in the Imperium.
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    Made some additional edits to the chapter, DP.

    Haha, I see the guilds are trying to become citizens. Not a chance of that happening.
     
    It should be here noted that corporations already do exist under Imperial Law.. You own several of them in fact.

    Now granted the guilds to not map perfectly to that which is why it will end up in the courts, but I felt this needed to be pointed out.
     
    Heavy cavalry is pretty much meaningless in planar warfare, to say nothing of a knightly order or similar outfight being highly unlikely to reach a size where they could even muster a battalion sized force.
     
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