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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Lots of planning going on here, as usual. I'll leave that to you lot who actually follow the thread past story posts and know what you're doing.

[X] [Specialty:] Productivity (Mastered+) > Productivity (Savant)

Snorri go brr.
 
I'll be honest, I have severe reservations about the Gronti plan as it currently stands. To me, it comes across as half-cocked, relying more on thread inertia than its own merits at this point. For an idea that's been kicking around in the thread for so long, you'd expect something a little more concrete - the plan doesn't even suggest runes, for goodness sake, let alone reagents. Additionally, it relies heavily on the quick success of a hunting expedition in the most dangerous conditions seen since the incursion, which is not a guaranteed outcome, as Soul rolls for these - see Debra the Shardwyrm and how much of a pain she was. Hell, the fluff hasn't even been updated for over forty turns!

For all people have been railing against an educated guess as to the use of the brain due to time constraints, the Gronti plan is equally (or in my eyes, far more) shoddy and riddled with assumptions.
 
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[x] [Specialty:] Productivity (Mastered+) > Productivity (Savant)
[x] [Specialty:] Odd and Esoteric Runes (Exceptional) > Odd and Esoteric Runes (Mastered)
[x] [Letters:] Knowledge about this new Elf Colony
[X] Plan We Have a Fulcrum, Let's Make a Magic Killer Amulet.
 
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Xepheria said:
I'll be honest, I have severe reservations about the Gronti plan as it currently stands. To me, it comes across as half-cocked, relying more on thread inertia than its own merits at this point. For an idea that's been kicking around in the thread for so long, you'd expect something a little more concrete - the plan doesn't even suggest runes, for goodness sake, let alone reagents. Additionally, it relies heavily on the quick success of a hunting expedition in the most dangerous conditions seen since the incursion, which is not a guaranteed outcome, as Soul rolls for these - see Debra the Shardwyrm and how much of a pain she was. Hell, the fluff hasn't even been updated for over forty turns!

For all people have been railing against an educated guess as to the use of the brain due to time constraints, the Gronti plan is equally (or in my eyes, far more) shoddy and riddled with assumptions.
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Look the issue with the Gronti is it's always going to be a capstone project no matter how much R&D we do cause we can arguably always improve some aspect of Snorri's skills to make it better. But that will mean it will never be fucking done.

Sometimes you just got to strike while the iron is hot and use what Papa Grimir gave his life to help make possible to turbo charge a giant stompy moving metal statue of DEATH so it can drang some fucking one eyed Chaos Lizards.
 
Binge-Reader said:
Look the issue with the Gronti is it's always going to be a capstone project no matter how much R&D we do cause we can arguably always improve some aspect of Snorri's skills to make it better. But that will mean it will never be fucking done.

Sometimes you just got to strike while the iron is hot and use what Papa Grimir gave his life to help make possible to turbo charge a giant stompy moving metal statue of DEATH so it can drang some fucking one eyed Chaos Lizards.
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On my end the research has nothing to do with it. Its the fact that people can't come up with a coherent set of runes or reagents for it that's frustrating. Combos are tricky and obtuse, but we've been playing for more than a year, and the Gronti has been being worked on for most of that. Hell, I was one of the main people who started it and suggested the whole Ymir thing that then got feature creeped into oblivion by other people. The Grimnir Gronti showed up pretty shortly after Ymir did IIRC and I'm pretty sure I liked it at that point; I don't now, because there hasn't been a solid discrete set of runes anyone can actually agree on which indicates to me there's some fundamental fractures in what y'all actually want.
 
BungieONI said:
On my end the research has nothing to do with it. Its the fact that people can't come up with a coherent set of runes or reagents for it that's frustrating. Combos are tricky and obtuse, but we've been playing for more than a year, and the Gronti has been being worked on for most of that. Hell, I was one of the main people who started it and suggested the whole Ymir thing that then got feature creeped into oblivion by other people. The Grimnir Gronti showed up pretty shortly after Ymir did IIRC and I'm pretty sure I liked it at that point; I don't now, because there hasn't been a solid discrete set of runes anyone can actually agree on which indicates to me there's some fundamental fractures in what y'all actually want.
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I was another of those that wanted the Golem at first... But i agree its been feature creeped to oblivion, and that put me off completely. I think its gotten too extravagant, and it's a bit of a vanity project
 
[X] [Letters:] Knowledge about this new Elf Colony
[X] [Specialty:] Productivity (Mastered+) > Productivity (Savant)
[X] [Specialty:] Odd and Esoteric Runes (Exceptional) > Odd and Esoteric Runes (Mastered)

[X] Plan We Have a Fulcrum, Let's Make a Lever
 
BungieONI said:
On my end the research has nothing to do with it. Its the fact that people can't come up with a coherent set of runes or reagents for it that's frustrating. Combos are tricky and obtuse, but we've been playing for more than a year, and the Gronti has been being worked on for most of that. Hell, I was one of the main people who started it and suggested the whole Ymir thing that then got feature creeped into oblivion by other people. The Grimnir Gronti showed up pretty shortly after Ymir did IIRC and I'm pretty sure I liked it at that point; I don't now, because there hasn't been a solid discrete set of runes anyone can actually agree on which indicates to me there's some fundamental fractures in what y'all actually want.
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I mean i am gonna start thinking about it, but a big part of not thinking about it was because of the joint reasons of Thread pushback to the idea and Material commitment, two issues that go hand in hand.

The Full-Adamant Grimnir Gronti requires 60+ bars of Adamant, something that we still don't even have half of. I didn't really feel the need to actually start formulating plans for nebulous runic combo that somehow has to incorporate both Master Rune of Waking (which severely limits what the combos can even be), because the materials necessary for the undertaking were too far off and because the thread as a whole has always had more detractors to that idea, owing to commiting that many resources literally every time it came up.

I will start giving it a think now that we know there will be next Storm of Magic, which gives us enough time to prep, but so far there was no incentive because most people did not even want it, and the material expediture put it away at at least another 20 turns into the future.
 
I agree with a lot of the hesitations on the Gronti. The problem for me is two fold. A) This does legitimately seem like a really good time to get it done and B) The Gronti feels like 'Old Breaker' there is always more that we could do and there are always shinies, research and commissions to do.

I'd like to cap off this millennia with something amazing, not just another piece of equipment.
 
[X] Plan We Have a Fulcrum, Let's Make a Lever
[X] [Letters:] Knowledge about this new Elf Colony
[X] [Specialty:] Productivity (Mastered+) > Productivity (Savant)
[X] [Specialty:] Odd and Esoteric Runes (Exceptional) > Odd and Esoteric Runes (Mastered)

I had misgivings about the Brain being used, but the Dragon Ogre Shaggoth research description we got does match what Bungie's going for pretty damn well, and Kholek's mostly just a bigger nastier version of that. There's still some trepidation given the description of Kholek's brain focuses more on the pact between the Dragon Ogres and Chaos, but even if it's not an optimal use of the brain I'd be surprised if it can't still be used as a better Dragon Ogre Shaggoth brain.

I really wanted the Gronti though and find it more interesting, but I'm not willing to risk a bad roll on the hunt to get the ingredient in time. I also don't like the lack of planning for the Gronti on it's leading plan and just throwing it on the QM to choose the runes and ingredients. So yeah, not voting for that. Plus I favor making a version that's fully equipped to make use of the fact that Gronti's have +1 slot for set bonuses as opposed to making the biggest possible Gronti when we can't afford to deck that Gronti out(It's 56 Adamant for a fully equipped Bloodthirster sized Gronti if we assume none of the runes involved use it as an ingredient, versus 36 for the Ogre sized one)
 
[x] [Specialty:] Productivity (Mastered+) > Productivity (Savant)
[x] [Specialty:] Odd and Esoteric Runes (Exceptional) > Odd and Esoteric Runes (Mastered)

... I'm actually kinda against both of the top votes, The Cape, Because if im understanding correctly it uses the brain that we haven't even studied yet(its the tier five brain right).

Grimil gonti, because its asking the prince to hunt in a very dangerous time.

So im just not going to vote for a plan.
 
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dbRevned said:
[x] [Specialty:] Productivity (Mastered+) > Productivity (Savant)
[x] [Specialty:] Odd and Esoteric Runes (Exceptional) > Odd and Esoteric Runes (Mastered)

... I'm actually kinda against both of the top votes, The Cape, Because if im understanding correctly it uses the brain that we haven't even studied yet(its the tier five brain right).

Grimil gonti, because its asking the prince to hunt in a very dangerous time.

So im just not going to vote for a plan.
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There's always the magic killer amulet plan;)
 
IronFist said:
I think its gotten too extravagant, and it's a bit of a vanity project
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A bit of a vanity project?
soulcake said:
So when I say cost, it literally is cost. A Gromril Gronti isn't unheard of, but from what I can tell from the discussion, the scale of what's being proposed certainly is. Because the cost is ludicrous. Varn or Zhufbar by your reckoning are the only other places with the Gromril to pull this off, the former for its natural seam and the latter because thats where most of the stuff from Varn gets refined in the first place.
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A Bloodthirster Gromril Gronti would be a vanity project. Even if we stopped at troll/ogre sized it might be a one of a kind in the KA.
A normal sized Adamant skinned Gronti would be a vanity project.

People forget how fucking ridiculous this plan was.
 
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Dark as Silver said:
A bit of a vanity project?


A Bloodthirster Gromril Gronti would be a vanity project. Even if we stopped at troll/ogre sized it might be a one of a kind in the KA.
A normal sized Adamant skinned Gronti would be a vanity project.

People forget how fucking ridiculous this plan was.
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WE SHALL SEND KRAKA DRAKK TO THE STARS AND BEYOND!

No more of this "not as cool as the Old Holds" nonsense.
 
[X] [Letters:] Knowledge about this new Elf Colony
[X] [Specialty:] Productivity (Mastered+) > Productivity (Savant)
[X] [Specialty:] Odd and Esoteric Runes (Exceptional) > Odd and Esoteric Runes (Mastered)
[X] Plan We Have a Fulcrum, Let's Make the Grimnir Gronti.
 
i see the band wagon is already in full swing.

would have like too learn other things to make / work on.
do not feel like trying to piss into the wind here.
 
[x] [Specialty:] Productivity (Mastered+) > Productivity (Savant)
[x] [Specialty:] Odd and Esoteric Runes (Exceptional) > Odd and Esoteric Runes (Mastered)
[x] [Letters:] Knowledge about this new Elf Colony
[X] Plan We Have a Fulcrum, Let's Make a Magic Killer Amulet.
 
Yeah, I haven't actually seen anyone explain why the proposed makeup of the gronti is a good idea that's likely to net a combo.

And using a valuable retinue action on doubling down in a heart acquisition when the Waystones are currently being threatened.
 
The rebirth of the Gronti discussion and the last minute dash to try and snag a plan to put it all into place has made that rather uncharacteristic of at least what I think Snorri would do.
The desire and ideas have been there since the early stages of the quest itself and yet when a supposed opportunity presents itself there is nothing concrete.

So I decided to have a go at the Gronti Runes and equipment so we at least can have somewhere to start at.
Mind you this is my attempt at it and it's more to get the idea out, I would also love any comments and ideas on what to change and improve.
I do support Bungies idea for this vote though, so this is mostly for the future when we go around building it.


Gronti Runes -
Master Rune of Waking
Rune of Grimnir
Rune of Grungni
Why these 2 runes? - The Rune of Grimnir is rather self-explanitory and we need a way of invoking him and his ideals when the gronti itself is in his image, as for the Rune of Grungni - Grungni's rune inspires the smiting of foes and valour of arms.
And I feel like they will work well together because the Gronti ultimately is a construct made for war and used to protect the Dawi, we channel that goal through both these runes.
I looked through the rune list and little else makes sense to put on a full adamant bloodthirster sized construct simply because it will need no more protection than it's innate one and the armour of course.


Gronti Armour
Master Rune of Infernos/Master Rune of Metalblood
Rune of Impact
Rune of Speed ? (listed as weapon rune not sure if we can use it on armour)

Now the armour isn't needed to focus on protection because the Gronti is busted, so speed+impact and either MR Metalblood for more weight and resistances, or Infernos so that the charge becomes the equivalent of a molten meteor barging towards the enemy. (We don't have that many armour runes to play with unless we compress combos or learn more, so I tried to work my way into a more aggressive set so that it can be even more of a menace on the battlefield)


Weapon Axe 1

Master Rune of Grimnir
Rune of Parrying
Rune of Striking

This is meant to delve into the skill of the fighter to "parry" and counter enemy attacks as they come and overwhelm them with sheer battle prowess, fitting for the Dawi Avatar of War


Weapon Axe 2

Master Rune of Chaos-Slaying
Rune of Demon Slaying
Rune of Fury

Grimnir had his greatest and last battle with the Great Enemy-Chaos. This is meant to not only crush, but destroy any being tainted by their ilk and any demon brave enough to stalk the lands of our brave dwarves. I feel like this will have a very good combo.


Banner

Master Rune of Grimnir
Rune of Battle
Rune of Determination (I would be amenable to replace it will Rune of Strollaz cuz that seems neat, but not sure if it will combo well)

Meant to symbolize him as a general and this will give massive buffs to any Dawi fighting with hi, to the point of it being ridiculous.


Talisman

Option 1 - Relentless Pursuit

Option 2
Master Rune of Grimnir
Rune of Brotherhood
Rune of Fate

The reason for the Rune of Fate is that with Brotherhood and Grimnir we might be able to make it into an AOE, and if not it will work into the Gronti fighting even better so still a win.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Yeah, I haven't actually seen anyone explain why the proposed makeup of the gronti is a good idea that's likely to net a combo.

And using a valuable retinue action on doubling down in a heart acquisition when the Waystones are currently being threatened.
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For Grimnir? It was never about the combo. The original plan came up in the context of honouring the sacrifice (good reason, no arguments against this as a concept) and hopefully guiding the cult of Grimnir to focus on his aspects as a warrior rather than a slayer.
Counterpoints like: observing the absolute arrogance assuming that we can shape the beliefs of a religious cult we aren't a part of across an entire nation with the power of big statue, were unfortunately no match for the hype train.
 
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Another point in the favour of the Anti-magic-channeling Amulet: There is a very good chance that the Set bonus manifests as a boost to all our equipped items, since the talisman is meant to draw on magic and distribute it to surrounding Rune(smith)s. The bonus to our own equipment would have substantial effect, since not only are our major combat capabilities, but also many of our crafting boni tied up in Barak Azamar and Zharrgal. Any boost to these items is massive boost to our overall performance, including the crafting of other items

As for the Gronti, it feels premature. We have barely scratched at what our master knows about Gronti-making, let alone Deep Magic, and we just got quite a bit of strife over our Chainforger. Maybe not try to reach for things that are not yet within our league?
 
Xepheria said:
I'll be honest, I have severe reservations about the Gronti plan as it currently stands. To me, it comes across as half-cocked, relying more on thread inertia than its own merits at this point. For an idea that's been kicking around in the thread for so long, you'd expect something a little more concrete - the plan doesn't even suggest runes, for goodness sake, let alone reagents. Additionally, it relies heavily on the quick success of a hunting expedition in the most dangerous conditions seen since the incursion, which is not a guaranteed outcome, as Soul rolls for these - see Debra the Shardwyrm and how much of a pain she was. Hell, the fluff hasn't even been updated for over forty turns!

For all people have been railing against an educated guess as to the use of the brain due to time constraints, the Gronti plan is equally (or in my eyes, far more) shoddy and riddled with assumptions.
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BungieONI said:
On my end the research has nothing to do with it. Its the fact that people can't come up with a coherent set of runes or reagents for it that's frustrating. Combos are tricky and obtuse, but we've been playing for more than a year, and the Gronti has been being worked on for most of that. Hell, I was one of the main people who started it and suggested the whole Ymir thing that then got feature creeped into oblivion by other people. The Grimnir Gronti showed up pretty shortly after Ymir did IIRC and I'm pretty sure I liked it at that point; I don't now, because there hasn't been a solid discrete set of runes anyone can actually agree on which indicates to me there's some fundamental fractures in what y'all actually want.
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The quest's best plan makers are all invested in the idea of completing Snorri's personal battlegear set. So for someone like me, who enjoys the quest greatly but isn't well versed in the many details of rune combinations, I cannot make a rune combination for the Gronti like you can. I just haven't been in the hundreds of pages of discussion necessary. There isn't any option for me but to vote to have our QM decide those runes and rune ingredients for us... and while I know that goes against those who enjoy crafting rune combinations, I still trust that Snorri will create a worthy combo on his own.
 
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Derpmind said:
The quest's best plan makers are all invested in the idea of completing Snorri's personal battlegear set. So for someone like me, who enjoys the quest greatly but isn't well versed in the many details of rune combinations, I cannot make a rune combination for the Gronti like you can. I just haven't been in the hundreds of pages of discussion necessary. There isn't any option for me but to vote to have our QM decide those runes and rune ingredients for us... and while I know that goes against those who enjoy crafting rune combinations, I still trust that Snorri will create a worthy combo on his own.
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You might be surprised but all those "best plan makers" also don't know how the system works. It is basically educated guesses all the way down, taking what Snorri thinks and does in quest, effects of various rune combinations on pieces of rune equipment that we made and few questions to soul. And a lot of brain storming. So i don't think "lack of knowledge" is valid excuse given we all have same material. To me it sounds like "giant gronti is cool but i don't want to put enough effort into rune combo to make best educated guesses possible". Sorry if that comes out harsh, but given persistence of Gronti idea and mad feature/research creep that turned off many people who were originally all for it (including BungieONI, who first proposed this idea and gave his own rune combo proposition), please try to understand why many people are just too damn tired and burned out on gronti idea.
 
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