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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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K von Carstein said:
Really? I'm not the most knowledgeable Warhammer expert, but I've never seen that anywhere. If it's true, that would be awesome.
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I think this is a popular WHF theory about the identity of the Ancient Widow using the information pertaining to one of the Gods of Law from 1st Edition WFRP, Arianka. It is said that Arianka was locked inside a crystal coffin and rumored to be underneath Praag, and it was popular to speculate that Arianka is the Ancient Widow, the voice that attracted the Khan Queen Mishka and the Gospodar to Kislev.

Pretty sure it's not based on canonical information to the quest, since 1st Edition is not canon here. I don't even know if Boney even uses the Gods of Law.
 
veekie said:
-Constipation. Their major foods are bread(supplemented with stone powder), beer, mushrooms and meat. The closest thing to fiber they're getting is the stone dust(which would not actually behave like fiber would for humans, though) and they preferentially do not consume much fruit and vegetable except as a brewing component, where fiber is not retained. This is a very easy reason to be perpetually grouchy.
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Small brain: "Dwarfish culture can be fixed by an awesome protagonist giving them a pep talk."

Big brain: "Dwarfish culture can be fixed by getting to eat more fiber."
 
Hmm, now I'm wondering if there are any other "gaps" in the archtypes of the dwarven pantheon.

From the wiki:

Grungni—Smiths and Miners
Valaya—Protection, Hearth, Healing
Grimnir—War
Gazul—Death
Smednir—Smelting
Thrungni—Runes
Morgrim—Engineering

There's no sun, moon, weather or nature deities. No rulership gods either, although Grungni was a high king, so maybe that's covered in his sphere. No evil or trickery gods, or gods of luck. Nothing to do with dreams or knowledge (Thrungni and Morgrim are too specialised). No god of wealth—maybe that's the niche Hashut fills? Fire is sort of shared between Gazul and Smednir.

Looking at it, the aspects of the ancestors are not the skills you'd expect in a colonising expedition—those are conquest aspects. Did Grungni lead an invasion force into the north? Grungni and Smednir create and control the distribution of weapons, which are used by Grimnir and Gazul, whilst Thrungni and Morgrim provide logistical and auxiliary support. Meanwhile Valaya keeps the fortress safe for them to retreat to and strike from.

Food, timber and other resources are instead taxed from local populations, freeing more dwarves to serve in a military role. Essentially, it looks like the first Dwarves in the old world were legionaries, not settlers.
 
BoneyM said:
One possibility is introducing a capstone rank (Exhaustive?) to represent that you got the stuff that you need to be an expert in the field to have even heard of, another possibility is a "Rare Books Section" or similar where the super rare stuff is individually listed.
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Exhaustive sounds like a good capstone to reach for.
 
Vote's open. I am up stupidly early because of anxiety about the move, which is annoying because I can't do anything productive at this time but it leaves me tired and less able to do things for the rest of the day. Here's two library plans:

[X] [LIBRARY] The Eonir of Laurelorn: Esoteric Dwarven (150 gc), Beastmen: Extensive Imperial, Extensive and Antiquarian Dwarven (300 gc), Waystones and Henges: Esoteric Imperial (150 gc and 4 CF)
Maxes out Eonir and Waystones, brings us to a +6 on Beastmen. 4 CF out of pocket.

[X] [LIBRARY] The Eonir of Laurelorn: Esoteric Dwarven (150 gc), Geography: Extensive Imperial (100gc), Beastmen: Extensive Imperial, Extensive and Esoteric Dwarven (350 gc)
Maxes out Eonir, brings Geography to +4 and Beastmen to +7, spends no CF out of pocket.

[X] [DWARF] No purchase.

[X] [COLLEGE] No purchase.

[X] [PURCHASE] No purchase.
No pressing needs elsewhere.
 
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Codex said:
It's not a carte blanche to do whatever we want. Belegar's transcendant boon is basically that, since he's gonna be supplying nearly all monetary endeavours and provide the work force for the library construction, but the Great Deed is less powerful than a Transcendant boon.
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Belegar would have basically bankrupted Karak Eight Peaks if we would have asked for something that needed it so it makes a lot of sense for the Great Deed to not be that outrageous.

We do have a lot of stakeholders in the Waystone project who can fork money and expertise though and we can scale our expenses to what people are prepared to fork out.

DragonParadox said:
No @Codex beat me to it, but in essence the Great Deed was just to make the branch to begin with and the bare minimum to have it function as such, there are going to be plenty of things we will have to pour gold and favor into.
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Or to make other people pour their favours and gold into which would be a bit more satisfying.
 
[X] [LIBRARY] The Eonir of Laurelorn: Esoteric Dwarven (150 gc), Geography: Extensive Imperial (100gc), Beastmen: Extensive Imperial, Extensive and Esoteric Dwarven (350 gc)

Dark as Silver said:
Who cares about the sky when you live under a mountain?
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The things that evolve or are evolved to live under mountains are pale and light-sensitive, with either no eyes or HUGE eyes. The night goblins, for example. The fact that dwarves aren't like this implies pretty strongly that they were above-ground prior to the coming of chaos.
 
BoneyM said:
The period that the Dwarves call 'The Time of the Ancestor Gods' is known to the Elves as 'The Coming of Chaos' and 'The First Chaos Incursion'.
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Ah, so it's looking like Karak Zorn sent a military expedition north to rebuff chaos and then that expedition never came home, instead settling those lands. No farmers because they expected to have an open supply line back to Zorn, but smiths and miners so they can resupply equipment in the field.

I wonder if they sent a similar force south?



[X] [LIBRARY] The Eonir of Laurelorn: Esoteric Dwarven (150 gc), Beastmen: Extensive Imperial, Extensive and Antiquarian Dwarven (300 gc), Waystones and Henges: Esoteric Imperial (150 gc and 4 CF)

I'm thinking it's better to get the waystone books now, when the only cost is CF.
 
[X] [LIBRARY] The Eonir of Laurelorn: Esoteric Dwarven (150 gc), Geography: Extensive Imperial (100gc), Beastmen: Extensive Imperial, Extensive and Esoteric Dwarven (350 gc)

Going for the option that saves CF in case we need it later.

Edit:
[X] A fancy sun hat for Pan
 
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Codex said:
On another note, I looked through Morghur's wikipedia page, and behold!

"The Elves know this being as Cyanathair, the Corrupter, and amongst the Dwarfs he is the Gor-Dum. "

Morghur's dwarf name has been corrected! I wonder if someone in this thread did it or someone else noticed that Cor-Dum was the result of a weird font. I know the Total War subreddit noticed that Cor-Dum was actually Gor-Dum relatively recently.
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That was @Mopman43. You can see on the history of the wiki.
 
[X] [LIBRARY] The Eonir of Laurelorn: Esoteric Dwarven (150 gc), Beastmen: Extensive Imperial, Extensive and Antiquarian Dwarven (300 gc), Waystones and Henges: Esoteric Imperial (150 gc and 4 CF)
 
Glau said:
[X] [LIBRARY] The Eonir of Laurelorn: Esoteric Dwarven (150 gc), Geography: Extensive Imperial (100gc), Beastmen: Extensive Imperial, Extensive and Esoteric Dwarven (350 gc)



The things that evolve or are evolved to live under mountains are pale and light-sensitive, with either no eyes or HUGE eyes. The night goblins, for example. The fact that dwarves aren't like this implies pretty strongly that they were above-ground prior to the coming of chaos.
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Dwarves are not a result of evolution in Warhammer. They were designed by the Old ones. As such we can't derive much from evolution based arguments.
 
[X] [LIBRARY] The Eonir of Laurelorn: Esoteric Dwarven (150 gc), Beastmen: Extensive Imperial, Extensive and Antiquarian Dwarven (300 gc), Waystones and Henges: Esoteric Imperial (150 gc and 4 CF)
[X] [LIBRARY] The Eonir of Laurelorn: Esoteric Dwarven (150 gc), Geography: Extensive Imperial (100gc), Beastmen: Extensive Imperial, Extensive and Esoteric Dwarven (350 gc)
[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
[X] [COLLEGE] No purchase.
[X] [PURCHASE] No purchase.
I want Henges and Waystones, but I could be convinced to save CF. Still undecided on how much we'll need.
 
[X] [LIBRARY] The Eonir of Laurelorn: Esoteric Dwarven (150 gc), Geography: Extensive Imperial (100gc), Beastmen: Extensive Imperial, Extensive and Esoteric Dwarven (350 gc)
[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
[X] [COLLEGE] No purchase.
[X] [PURCHASE] No purchase.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Karak Zorn, the legendary hold that dwarves come from and possibly the "Zl" city Deathfang mentioned, means "Hold of the Upland Plateau". If we assume the hold is ontop of the Plateau rather than inside it, then that makes some sense.
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A note that the the Temple City of Zlaltan is also in the Southlands close to Karak Zorn if Zlaltan's existence is canonical to the quest. It appears to be a city introduced in 5th Edition, so possibly but not guaranteed, but it matches the letters "Zl" and it's close enough to Karak Zorn for Grimnir to meet and kill Urmskaladrak.

Zlaltan could also explain certain things about the Tomb Kings, as in they adopted the Slaan's Mummy Priest stylings into their own culture.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I'm thinking it's better to get the waystone books now, when the only cost is CF.
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What do you think the cost might change to? Personally I'm leaving out the waystone books for the hope that we can lean on Alegard's support for this a bit and get them soon for less or no CF.
Deathbybunnies said:
I really don't think saving up CF is necessary when we're sitting on a bunch of unpublished papers, and I think we ought to get the maximum possible benefit for our primary goal for the next 15-20 turns.
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I'm convinced (This brings us from 11 down to 7 CF this turn, and I really want to work on the Mushroom Book these next two turns, although that is subject to being changed by the freshness of various papers.

[X] [LIBRARY] The Eonir of Laurelorn: Esoteric Dwarven (150 gc), Beastmen: Extensive Imperial, Extensive and Antiquarian Dwarven (300 gc), Waystones and Henges: Esoteric Imperial (150 gc and 4 CF)
 
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[X] [LIBRARY] The Eonir of Laurelorn: Esoteric Dwarven (150 gc), Geography: Extensive Imperial (100gc), Beastmen: Extensive Imperial, Extensive and Esoteric Dwarven (350 gc)
 
Codex said:
It appears to be a city introduced in 5th Edition, so possibly but not guaranteed
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It was introduced in 5th edition, but it's had at least some presence in every Lizardmen army book since then, it's probably safe to assume it exists.

Like, Karl Franz was introduced in 1st edition RP... but he's also been a presence in the last 5 editions of WHFB, so he's in, you know?
 
Altom said:
Dwarves are not a result of evolution in Warhammer. They were designed by the Old ones. As such we can't derive much from evolution based arguments.
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On the contrary, we can assume that things that are strongly favored by convergent evolution for cave dwellers are the same things as would be designed into cave dwellers, for sheer functionality.

Surface-adapted binocular vision is not one of those things. Nor is visible-spectrum pigmentation.

I mean, you can just hand-wave away this stuff with a "well, they were designed differently" but I'd expect to see at least an attempt at explaining why the sub-optimal choices were made during design.
 
Mopman43 said:
It was introduced in 5th edition, but it's had at least some presence in every Lizardmen army book since then, it's probably safe to assume it exists.

Like, Karl Franz was introduced in 1st edition RP... but he's also been a presence in the last 5 editions of WHFB, so he's in, you know?
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I have a dozen more books to read before I reach the Lizardmen, so I based my observation on the fact that the wiki only draws information from 5th edition. Suboptimal, but the best I got for now.
 
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