Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)

Doomed Wombat · Jul 12, 2021

FractiousDay said:
Presumably particularly aggressive training, which sure, works in theory, but I think highlights one of the revelations Grok has been making regarding the Light. While I've previously noted the Grok initially though the Light was just another tutelary elemental thing, Tirion and Fairbanks have explained it more so Grok is now understanding it differently. Shamanism is about contracts, Dark Shamanism is about sacrifice and subjugation, Arcane is about knowledge and learning, and so on. The Light is about faith. While the essential concepts may be the same, the Light requires a different mindset to use, a mindset which is inappropriate for the sort of utility magic that such an idea would require.

MMM.

I disagree to a point, the fundamental thing about the Light and Faith is that you need to believe that you can do it. As long as you hold to that then it works. Otherwise the fairly common place healing that's present in areas where the light has power (lets not even get onto the full on light technology) doesn't really make too much sense.

As such having faith that you can heal them, that you are doing it for a good cause (i.e. so they can become stronger and beat more undead) seems pretty reasonable.

FractiousDay said:
Interesting point there that I probably won't go too much into, but yes, commading undead would be interesting because they're so stupid and yet so powerful. All warfare is deception and so on, but what if your enemy can't really be deceived. If a lich orders a troop of skeletons to 'proceed toward the enemy castle and kill anyone inside, then await further orders', and someone tries to lure them away etc, would htat just utterly fail because they'd ignore the distraction in a way unlike living troops.

Depends a great deal on the skill of the commanders at play, although I imagine most undead armies have sub leaders like death knights or necromancers to somewhat ameliorate that.

FractiousDay said:
Yea I'll give you an action for a flame attacks buff next turn.

Not quite magic attack, but I'll take it.

FractiousDay said:
Blademasters can move faster and have significantly better mobility.

One of them will have to carry Grok, as shown a few updates ago he cannot keep up with them.

rx915 said:
Might be better to buff up the blademasters then who are going in like Vermintide.

If we could I'd ask a Griffon rider to do an aerial drop. Unfortunately non viable.

FractiousDay said:
I'm happy to provide some actions next turn for stuff that would improve the plan, and I've already got a couple of things planned like MIghtstone acquisition, which is one I'd recommend taking.

Grumbles. And of course the mightstone is the one thing I really don't want.

Unless I'm thinking of the wrong thing, in which case yay might stone.

FractiousDay · Jul 12, 2021

rx915 said:
Can you edit some flavor text about Nerzhul then?

I find it odd he didn't get mentioned in this meeting when Katrina brought it up.

There's a few reasons why not, firstly, I think grok would as Dathrohan first, he's far closer to scourge stuff, and I can use it in an intimate scene later between darhrohan and grok to poke the dreadlord stuff again, or maybe use varimathras instead. Why have grok ask some random woman who doesn't know much when I can build it into another scene and use it to present something? I could even use Tirion for the same thing

secondly, as per above I can use it to pad out antoher scene later

Thirdly the point of that discussion and some of the things I presented was to get ony more involved, which will come up on later chapters because dragons are cool

Doomed Wombat said:
Otherwise the fairly common place healing that's present in areas where the light has power (lets not even get onto the full on light technology) doesn't really make too much sense.

Yea it's a mess, esp the light mechas.

One thing I forgot to say previously was around the old maghar quest, that presented various things around stuff like naaru being presented as furies of the light, which given the transactional nature of shamanism vs the faith based light stuff seemed pretty off. Having said that I'm not sure the author was aiming for as close an examination of culture as I am so it's up to them to decide what to have in their story.

Doomed Wombat said:
Unless I'm thinking of the wrong thing, in which case yay might stone.

Yea your probably thinking of something different, I was thinking of the high lvl pally quest in classic and basically adapting that

rx915 · Jul 12, 2021

FractiousDay said:
There's a few reasons why not, firstly, I think grok would as Dathrohan first, he's far closer to scourge stuff, and I can use it in an intimate scene later between darhrohan and grok to poke the dreadlord stuff again, or maybe use varimathras instead. Why have grok ask some random woman who doesn't know much when I can build it into another scene and use it to present something? I could even use Tirion for the same thing

secondly, as per above I can use it to pad out antoher scene later

Thirdly the point of that discussion and some of the things I presented was to get ony more involved, which will come up on later chapters because dragons are cool

Alright as long as Nerzhul does get brought up eventually because I remember putting this in my plan to ask about in the meeting.

Doomed Wombat · Jul 12, 2021

FractiousDay said:
Yea it's a mess, esp the light mechas.

One thing I forgot to say previously was around the old maghar quest, that presented various things around stuff like naaru being presented as furies of the light, which given the transactional nature of shamanism vs the faith based light stuff seemed pretty off. Having said that I'm not sure the author was aiming for as close an examination of culture as I am so it's up to them to decide what to have in their story.

Eh personally I think it works. Faith in a religious sense is useful for civs at all levels, but the Light itself is a fundamental concept of the universe. You have faith that it is there the same as gravity, and so it can be used for things like machines once you understand it well enough (and ya know machines.)

I know the quest you're talking about and I think you maybe reading a bit too much into that. Its finding an equivalency, not saying they're the same. The Naaru are the biggest light entities we know of so equivocating them to elemental lords works, albeit its far from perfect, but to a non shaman trying to find a way to reconcile with the Draenai it works.

I have opinions on the transactional nature, but that's not for now.

Otherwise my view remains that using the light for "utility" is fine, as long as it works. Its why I went to light healing, since the light and healing is practically synonymous, but ask it to make you invisible and that'd require a lot more faith.

Most types of magic can be used for utility in some way shape or form, albeit to varying degrees.

FractiousDay said:
Yea your probably thinking of something different, I was thinking of the high lvl pally quest in classic and basically adapting that

Does it involve killing trolls for voodou feathers?

Cause in that case yeah wrong thing.

rx915 · Jul 12, 2021

Doomed Wombat said:
Grumbles. And of course the mightstone is the one thing I really don't want.

Unless I'm thinking of the wrong thing, in which case yay might stone.

If Fractious recommends it we might as well take up the GM advice especially if it only needs one action if it's much better to not complete blade master training in favor of something else.

Learning stealth is definitely something to learn if Grok and the blademasters do sneak into Andorhal or they're going in hot.

Oh wait it must be this. Holy trinket then yeah definitely take it when it gives holy damage bonus.

Holy Mightstone

It is a quest reward. In the Other Items category. Added in Classic World of Warcraft. Always up to date with the latest patch (1.15.6).

classic.wowhead.com

Doomed Wombat · Jul 12, 2021

rx915 said:
If Fractious recommends it we might as well take up the GM advice especially if it only needs one action if it's much better to not complete blade master training in favor of something else.

Learning stealth is definitely something to learn if Grok and the blademasters do sneak into Andorhal or they're going in hot.

Oh wait it must be this. Holy trinket then yeah definitely take it.

Holy Mightstone

It is a quest reward. In the Other Items category. Added in Classic World of Warcraft. Always up to date with the latest patch (1.15.6).

classic.wowhead.com

Yeah, grabbing that is a good idea.

I really want to complete blade master training. I want to break through that damn cap.

See thing is the point of the distraction is that well...undead are dumb as nails, so we can afford to not be stealthy as long as they actually get the attention of the undead.

rx915 · Jul 12, 2021

Doomed Wombat said:
Yeah, grabbing that is a good idea.

I really want to complete blade master training. I want to break through that damn cap.

See thing is the point of the distraction is that well...undead are dumb as nails, so we can afford to not be stealthy as long as they actually get the attention of the undead.

Then tactics might be better since Grok is leading a smaller group into Andorhal if his leadership skills can do with some refinement.

Course that's something the training option can be amended with.

rx915 · Jul 12, 2021

So let's look at some stuff from the last turn and what definitely will be available next turn.

[ ] Operation Shadow Moses
Take Andorhal.

[ ] Training the Warband
There are a number of different competencies among your warriors, see if you might spread these among the others to increase the general level of skill of your band. Indicate if you want to train particular people or particular skills. This can include specialist training that might be offered.

[ ] Requisition
While you can train your warriors in particular things you already know, there are some things you have to get from elsewhere. Requisition supplies or personnel from the Crusade. The success of such requests will depend on your value to the Crusade. Write in what you want. This action represents the request and some basic integration into your force, if the action is relatively simply it can be delegated to Darion or others and will be free.

[] Armor
Vark mentioned armor and we need it.

[ ] The Blade Reborn (2 Actions)
Request a program of calisthenics from Sesk and Ishi.

[ ] Tactics
You're good with a sword but you know there's more to victory than the ability to swing a weapon.

[ ] Stealth
The Shattered Hand are known to be a dishonourable lot, striking from the shadows and using poison and though you don't intend to adopt their methods you might at least learn them.

[] Mightstone

[ ] Tactics
You're good with a sword but you know there's more to victory than the ability to swing a weapon.

[ ] Stealth
The Shattered Hand are known to be a dishonourable lot, striking from the shadows and using poison and though you don't intend to adopt their methods you might at least learn them.

[ ] Slayer
You know something of the undead and their different forms, but you could do with learning more. You've heard tell of one among the Crusade called Vishas, a man who apparently knows a great deal about the undead.

[ ] Ways of Battle
Tirion pointed out that you don't have other weapons than your sword, which is unsuited to tight places. Rectify this.

Spend time with [Write in]
-Ask healer expert about healing with the light

Choose 7 actions. At least 2 action have to be from your Warband, but you can take additional time to take more Warband actions if you decide to.

So under warband actions I would put in three of them since more requisition can be free if it's said to be simple. More specialists, trinkets for blademaster sabotage options and supplies to hold the fort would be what I'd get.

Armor is defiantly a warband action when the warband needs to find it (Kartha will need to look).

So this might be how it looks when we have to fight undead.

[ ] Operation Shadow Moses
[ ] Training the Warband (last one was poor so let's do it again)
[ ] Requisition (free if simple)
[] Armor
[ ] The Blade Reborn (2 Actions)
[] Mightstone (light trinket for more holy damage)
[ ] Slayer (going to kill undead especially a lich so might as well ask the undead slaying expert)

This leaves these out. I do note Grok has been learning at least leadership and has gotten the blademasters some close quarters daggers for tight spots but this is just in case.

[ ] Tactics
[ ] Stealth
[ ] Ways of Battle

edit:

FractiousDay said:
Yea I'll give you an action for a flame attacks buff next turn.

Whoops I missed this one. Maybe take out training the warband? Leave out armor?

FractiousDay · Jul 15, 2021

Lordaeron Turn 6

After your pronouncement you set the warband to work. The warriors are drilled, plans are drawn up and maps poured over. The end result is simple enough, the warband will storm Anderhol, break through the Scourge defences, then find some fortified place to hold up while you and the Blademasters make for the lich controlling the city. After his destruction, which is surely certain against such unexpected foes, the Lich King's control over the undead will be disrupted enough that many of the weaker examples will simply fall apart and crumble into dust.

In this you recognise a contribution to this war which is solely due to your own influence, and the certainty gladdens you. While the Crusade could have stormed the city they'd take massive losses, perhaps thousands, whereas your force, lighter and swifter, Sesk and Ishi able to dance through the air as if flying, will be able to bypass much of the Scourge's numbers in a way unlike the robust but ponderous armoured Knights of the Silver Hand.

You spend much of your time examining various issues, speaking with the newer members of your warband to ascertain their capabilities, and in other such matters, but now comes the final stretch, and you have time to consider what you might do before your attack.

You can do write ins for any category. You can also vote for actions individually rather than in plans, or you can vote in plans if you want. The normal policies apply including plans without reasoning being ignored. Ask me if unsure. If there's an action which notes some unspecific element, this is where you're meant to indicate a preference or reasoning.

You will be assaulting Anderhol this turn, -1 action for mandatory preparations. Choose 6 actions. At least 1 action have to be from your Warband, but you can take additional time to take more Warband actions if you decide to.

Please maintain discipline in plan making.

Delegate
You are surrounded by various capable people. You can delegate certain actions for free. You'll have little control over the conduct of the delegate while they're away, and they'll make decisions as seems best to them. If you want to delegate an action, clearly mark this in your plan and indicate any specific things you want from it.

The Warband
These actions relate to the activities of your warband.

[ ] Fields of Tears
From Dathrohan's words you know the Crusade will be expanding into the Plaugelands, a vast province which used to compost most of Lordaeron's kingdom. Currently the Crusade only control small pockets of land and rely on networks of couriers and caravans for communication and supply. Apparently the area just north of Anderhol is known to be particularly dangerous, full of farms and plague cauldrons which corrupt the land. You cannot allow this.

[ ] Silverpine Forest (2 Actions)
The woods to the south by comparison seem less malevolent than those here in Tirasfel Glades. You've heard several things regarding Silverpine Forest, journey there are see what may be seen.

[ ] Terrordale
The warband are used to fighting the undead by now, but darker creatures serve the Scourge as well. To the east into the Plaguelands lies a region known as 'Terrordale', an evil place inhabited by horrors unlike what you've faced before. If you're to continue to aid the Crusade in more than just killing shamblers you should seek out more dangerous prey…

[ ] Training the Warband
There are a number of different competencies among your warriors, see if you might spread these among the others to increase the general level of skill of your band. Indicate if you want to train particular people or particular skills. This can include specialist training that might be offered.

[ ] Requisition
While you can train your warriors in particular things you already know, there are some things you have to get from elsewhere. Requisition supplies or personnel from the Crusade. The success of such requests will depend on your value to the Crusade. Write in what you want. This action represents the request and some basic integration into your force, if the action is relatively simply it can be delegated to Darion or others and will be free.

Lordaeron
These actions relate to specific areas around your current location.

[ ] Deathknell
The Forsaken seem to want to live up to their name, can you bring yourself to expend further effort on them? If not taken this turn the action will disappear as Grok will decide not to bother.

[ ] Strange Lights
There were reports from a few warriors of strange lights seen in the sky over Lake Lordemere. You don't know what this might be, but perhaps you should journey there and see what may be seen.

[ ] The Scarlet Monastery
One of the earliest bastions of the Scarlet Crusade, the great fortified cloister to the north has stood for years as a light in the darkness. Supposedly there's a large library there, perhaps you could learn more of the Crusade's history there.

[ ] The Camp
Explore the Scarlet Crusade's camp further.

Training
It's important for a warrior to keep themselves well trained at all times.

[ ] The Blade Reborn (2 Actions)
Request a program of calisthenics from Sesk and Ishi. Improves physical conditioning. Expert level physical conditioning required to unlock further combat training.

[ ] Tactics
You're good with a sword but you know there's more to victory than the ability to swing a weapon.

[ ] Stealth
The Shattered Hand are known to be a dishonourable lot, striking from the shadows and using poison and though you don't intend to adopt their methods you might at least learn them.

[ ] Scholarship
Perhaps you might journey to the Scarlet Library and research some topic…

[ ] Shadow Magic
While you don't expect to learn the necrolyte's arts immediately, you decide to speak to Keldran to understand more of what his magic actually is.

[ ] The Light
Continue your studies on the Light.

[ ] Slayer
You know something of the undead and their different forms, but you could do with learning more. You've heard tell of one among the Crusade called Vishas, a man who apparently knows a great deal about the undead.

[ ] Arcane
The Darkspear had mages, but the traditions of Dalaran are far more advanced and better codified. Tirion mentioned a mage, seek out this individual to learn more of Arcane magic.

Personal actions
These actions relate to activities you take for your own benefit, or to improve yourself.

[ ] Reconnection
Hope stirs in you. After months of listlessness where the Spirits seemed far from you, they seem now to return.

[ ] Blades of Flame
At Dreadmist the fire blazing from your sword seemed to leap to ignite the weapons of others. Could you perhaps replicate this feat for the upcoming battle? Certainly such a thing would be especially useful against the undead.

[ ] Mightstone
The mage Castellian has apparently prepared a 'Mightstone' for you on the recommendation of Tirion. Apparently this item will increase your physical capabilities to the peak you're capable of, but requires some degree of attunement. Using the Mightstone will artificially boost your physical stat to expert level, as required for the Blademaster unlocking.

Social
Grok presumably has some free time, who does he choose to spend time with?

Spend time with [Write in].
This action is free, and will provide no specific benefits as it's just a social action.

Doomed Wombat · Jul 15, 2021

Tired.

Alright proto plan please cannibalise

[X] Plan: Saddaling up
-The Blade Reborn (If I can add Whitemane here as a healer so Grok can push himself harder I would like too...who knows could invite her to learn some basics, friendly spars against a light user in friendly conditions?)
-Mightstone
-Blades of Flame
-Reconnection
-Train the Warband in defensive holding actions.
-Social: Whitemane, you've met two different perspectives on the light, add a third. + She is a priest perhaps we can talk to her about our own internal problems (probably not, but sudden no.) Want to do Varak, so hopefully we can swing something...maybe.
-Delegate: Ask Kartha/Darion to train our subordinates in the basics of each other's language to minimise risk of miscommunications.
-Delegate: Varak requisition materials for explosives (and make some). If he can figure out something to try and minimise the problem of gas that'd be great too.
-Delegate: Sesk Ishi, scout a head to Andorhal, so we know what we're up against. (Possibly unneeded, probably not possible.)
-Delegate: Vok Fonn scouting, but he might be able to do some diplomacy with his old mate Brann?

I'm very sleepy, but if we're doing this we need the skills to try and take advantage of the opportunity, (although ironically I'm thinking of ditching reconnection. Thematically it feels like no matter what we do it'll reappear during the fight or after it, especially knowing our luck.)

However, the sword stuff we need to get good at and we need to give people a chance against wraiths.

I also really want to start trying to form a bond with Whitemane. She's an interesting character that ended up being rather underutilised in my view and I think she could be an interesting friend to Grok and be of big help in many endeavours (especially to the whole idea of making the burning blade into a magic investigation place, since she's a bit of a prodigy with the light seemingly. Resurrection is a speciality that is probably real ****ing rare.)

Now I'm going to sleep.

rx915 · Jul 15, 2021

Want to give up on the undead in the village?

So the warband is automatically going for Andorhal without needing to do field of tears.

@FractiousDay wasn't there supposed to be a armor store to raid and loot?

Doomed Wombat · Jul 16, 2021

rx915 said:
Want to give up on the undead in the village?

So the warband is automatically going for Andorhal without needing to do field of tears.

@FractiousDay wasn't there supposed to be a armor store to raid and loot?

Damn it all didn't see that last night.

No I do not, mmm...

We may have to delegate it, but I think we can squeeze someone out to go and keep up with them, even if its as simple as sending someone to ask if there's any supplies they need or messages they want taken to the undercity.

rx915 · Jul 16, 2021

Doomed Wombat said:
Damn it all didn't see that last night.

No I do not, mmm...

We may have to delegate it, but I think we can squeeze someone out to go and keep up with them, even if its as simple as sending someone to ask if there's any supplies they need or messages they want taken to the undercity.

Just send Kartha to try again.

FractiousDay · Jul 16, 2021

Doomed Wombat said:
She's an interesting character

I think it's more because of her distinctive outfit and her place as a boss. Ambo Cash doesnt have any trousers either but doesn't get as much interest lol. Whitemane has about 3 lines before she's killed so yea, not a great deal of stuff there

rx915 said:
@FractiousDay wasn't there supposed to be a armor store to raid and loot?

There is in Anderhol sure, or in other places. Armouries are traditionally kept in urban centres and you're not going to find large amounts of armour just lying about in other places.

rx915 said:
Just send Kartha to try again.

So one of the issues with such delegation, as mentioned when it was introduced, would be that the results are contingent on other factors. She can go find them certainly, that's within her skillset, but you don't have control over such actions as directly as you might if Grok went himself. There are various subsequent things to consider. Does the action align with the individual's general motives? Here, does Kartha care much about the forsaken? Not really, that doesn't mean she wouldn't do it, it just means she'd probably be less effective. Is it toward her skills? Not really she's not a diplomat. Finally, what is actually trying to be achieved here? Getting the Deathknell forsaken supplies? Sure, they could probably use some stuff, but what is the warband going to head off into an area the Scarlets think is cleared with supplies and come back with nothing? Do you imagine no one's going to remark on the load of alchemic unguents and stuff that are generally used by the forsaken because they don't eat anything etc?

Doomed Wombat · Jul 16, 2021

FractiousDay said:
I think it's more because of her distinctive outfit and her place as a boss. Ambo Cash doesnt have any trousers either but doesn't get as much interest lol. Whitemane has about 3 lines before she's killed so yea, not a great deal of stuff there

Mm. Potentially, but my view is that there's a lot there that nobody ever really talked about. Yes it's cause she's a boss (and fuel for the art community blizzard in no way encourages), but at the same time I found the crusade in general interesting and her part in it more so. The slide into madness, the self justification, the multiple deaths, the light never abandoning her etc. In my view it could have been a cautionary tale about how the light's power can be brain rot, the ability of people to keep spiralling to their doom even with the removal of a corrupter and of bloody minded determination even if it was woefully misapplied.

Course I might just be reading way too much into it, but like a lot of wow things I obviously think I can tell a better story with what is left unsaid than what blizzard actually says

However I do think you're being a bit dismissive, the scarlet monastery as a whole and Whitemane as the only consistent boss through multiple reworks (and when they did finally kill her off for good instantly brought her back to life again as a death knight with none of the fetish fuel…I think/hope) means that I think people did like her for more reasons than attire, where as cash was a one time joke.

I'll reply to the rest back at my computer.

rx915 · Jul 16, 2021

FractiousDay said:
There is in Anderhol sure, or in other places. Armouries are traditionally kept in urban centres and you're not going to find large amounts of armour just lying about in other places.

Great I don't have to worry about adding it to this turn.

FractiousDay said:
So one of the issues with such delegation, as mentioned when it was introduced, would be that the results are contingent on other factors. She can go find them certainly, that's within her skillset, but you don't have control over such actions as directly as you might if Grok went himself. There are various subsequent things to consider. Does the action align with the individual's general motives? Here, does Kartha care much about the forsaken? Not really, that doesn't mean she wouldn't do it, it just means she'd probably be less effective. Is it toward her skills? Not really she's not a diplomat. Finally, what is actually trying to be achieved here? Getting the Deathknell forsaken supplies? Sure, they could probably use some stuff, but what is the warband going to head off into an area the Scarlets think is cleared with supplies and come back with nothing? Do you imagine no one's going to remark on the load of alchemic unguents and stuff that are generally used by the forsaken because they don't eat anything etc?

She's the most sneakiest I thought she might be able to convince them more. Otherwise I don't believe anyone else other than Grok might care about them and they already received the warning.

Doomed Wombat said:
Mm. Potentially, but my view is that there's a lot there that nobody ever really talked about. Yes it's cause she's a boss (and fuel for the art community blizzard in no way encourages), but at the same time I found the crusade in general interesting and her part in it more so. The slide into madness, the self justification, the multiple deaths, the light never abandoning her etc. In my view it could have been a cautionary tale about how the light's power can be brain rot, the ability of people to keep spiralling to their doom even with the removal of a corrupter and of bloody minded determination even if it was woefully misapplied.

Course I might just be reading way too much into it, but like a lot of wow things I obviously think I can tell a better story with what is left unsaid than what blizzard actually says

However I do think you're being a bit dismissive, the scarlet monastery as a whole and Whitemane as the only consistent boss through multiple reworks (and when they did finally kill her off for good instantly brought her back to life again as a death knight with none of the fetish fuel…I think/hope) means that I think people did like her for more reasons than attire, where as cash was a one time joke.

I'll reply to the rest back at my computer.

You still want to help them or leave them to their fate?

I don't see anything about the prisoners. Thought they'd at least get an introduction.

FractiousDay · Jul 16, 2021

Doomed Wombat said:
The slide into madness, the self justification, the multiple deaths, the light never abandoning her etc

Ah I see. Yes that's all true, I wouldn't necessarily associate it with just Whitemane though, but yes agreed more generally.

rx915 said:
I don't see anything about the prisoners. Thought they'd at least get an introduction.

Lots of time in alterac later to do so

Doomed Wombat · Jul 16, 2021

FractiousDay said:
So one of the issues with such delegation, as mentioned when it was introduced, would be that the results are contingent on other factors. She can go find them certainly, that's within her skillset, but you don't have control over such actions as directly as you might if Grok went himself. There are various subsequent things to consider. Does the action align with the individual's general motives? Here, does Kartha care much about the forsaken? Not really, that doesn't mean she wouldn't do it, it just means she'd probably be less effective. Is it toward her skills? Not really she's not a diplomat. Finally, what is actually trying to be achieved here? Getting the Deathknell forsaken supplies? Sure, they could probably use some stuff, but what is the warband going to head off into an area the Scarlets think is cleared with supplies and come back with nothing? Do you imagine no one's going to remark on the load of alchemic unguents and stuff that are generally used by the forsaken because they don't eat anything etc?

I my suggestion was correspondences and messages that we could try to slip through to the undercity.

Nice and small, will probably help their morale.

Could be used for nefarious purposes, not really as much.

As for Kartha, that depends what she wants. If she could try to convince some of them to help with intrigue stuff that'd be neat, but as you said she's no diplomat.

rx915 said:
You still want to help them or leave them to their fate?

I don't see anything about the prisoners. Thought they'd at least get an introduction.

I want to help them out, I'm not sure how.

Pretty much what Fractious said.

FractiousDay said:
Ah I see. Yes that's all true, I wouldn't necessarily associate it with just Whitemane though, but yes agreed more generally.

I associate it with Whitemane in part due to her long term presence and also cause she's the only light user I can think of whose downfall is inimitably tied to the light. For sure she and Arthas have parallels (light, undead, dreadlord, no cost too great etc.) the difference is that he looses the light she never does, in fact it just gets stronger and stronger leading to the whole self resurrection thing. + She doesn't have Ner'zul in her head making her do nutty stuff after the Dreadlord pops it she does it herself. That I think makes her unique and an unexplored chance to really show the downsides of the light, with even its most potent miracle (resurrection) twisted into a weapon that normally should be impossible by someone who is one of the most powerful light users seen in setting.

rx915 · Jul 16, 2021

Doomed Wombat said:
I want to help them out, I'm not sure how.

Pretty much what Fractious said.

That one really depends on their location.

Where they are now means they will one day be discovered and dealt with.

If they do have their own fighters than it's possible they can take advantage of the warband's surprise attack on Andorhal but it's unpredictable to where that leads to. Will they use the distraction to do carry out their own raid to take what they need before fleeing to somewhere safer or will they instead join up for some reason because Andorhal has something they want?

Doomed Wombat · Jul 16, 2021

rx915 said:
That one really depends on their location.

Where they are now means they will one day be discovered and dealt with.

If they do have their own fighters than it's possible they can take advantage of the warband's surprise attack on Andorhal but it's unpredictable to where that leads to. Will they use the distraction to do carry out their own raid to take what they need before fleeing to somewhere safer or will they instead join up for some reason because Andorhal has something they want?

Or the more likely (and close) answer that they make a break for the saftey of the under city.

rx915 · Jul 16, 2021

Doomed Wombat said:
Or the more likely (and close) answer that they make a break for the saftey of the under city.

I don't know how they'd do that but if news of Andorhal's capture is sent back then the Scarlets would rush more forces to take control that security is loose to make a run for it.

Doomed Wombat · Jul 16, 2021

rx915 said:
I don't know how they'd do that but if news of Andorhal's capture is sent back then the Scarlets would rush more forces to take control that security is loose to make a run for it.

Corpsin

Pretend to be bodies and take a circuitous route

rx915 · Jul 16, 2021

Doomed Wombat said:
Corpsin

Pretend to be bodies and take a circuitous route

The best way maybe for Grok to do it himself under the pretense of scouting and hash out what the village's plans are so they work with his.

Doomed Wombat · Jul 16, 2021

rx915 said:
The best way maybe for Grok to do it himself under the pretense of scouting and hash out what the village's plans are so they work with his.

Scouting in the wrong direction.

The better option is whatever training montage the Blademasters have him doing happens to lead them out that way.

Like a rather public, run we're going to be following and trying to shank you start that just so happens to head in that direction.

rx915 · Jul 16, 2021

Doomed Wombat said:
Scouting in the wrong direction.

The better option is whatever training montage the Blademasters have him doing happens to lead them out that way.

Like a rather public, run we're going to be following and trying to shank you start that just so happens to head in that direction.

I was thinking it was going to be more training in the field on random undead as the excuse instead.

Those blademasters too would see it beneath them. Grok may as well just ask them their plans.

Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)

Let's go Darling!

Let's go Darling!

Let's go Darling!

Let's go Darling!

Let's go Darling!

Let's go Darling!

Let's go Darling!

Let's go Darling!

Let's go Darling!

Let's go Darling!