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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I wonder if Dhar Insight will help with the Waystone Project.

Combined with Windherder, perhaps it will given an enhanced understanding of how dhar is created, and perhaps how waystones take "magic" (meaning all the winds) and move them around without creating dhar and in fact even vacuuming up ambient dhar.
 
A note: If you're really interested in Mathilde using other Winds, Dhar Insight and Collegiate are probably the ideal combo for that. Dhar Insight helps with using Winds together without accidentally doing Dhar, and Collegiate makes it easier to get help from the other Colleges, which is invaluable if we want to use the other Winds.

Polyglot could also help with this, admittedly: after all, the big library probably has some useful text for this, and there are elves that use multiple Winds from what I understand? (this thread is the source of all my Warhammer knowledge) Still, we will not have access to those forever, and Polyglot won't magically conjure up some Elven tutors that could help us with this. And it's not as if picking Collegiate will somehow restrict us from looking in the library.
 
LadyLynn said:
A note: If you're really interested in Mathilde using other Winds, Dhar Insight and Collegiate are probably the ideal combo for that. Dhar Insight helps with using Winds together without accidentally doing Dhar, and Collegiate makes it easier to get help from the other Colleges, which is invaluable if we want to use the other Winds.

Polyglot could also help with this, admittedly: after all, the big library probably has some useful text for this, and there are elves that use multiple Winds from what I understand? (this thread is the source of all my Warhammer knowledge) Still, we will not have access to those forever, and Polyglot won't magically conjure up some Elven tutors that could help us with this. And it's not as if picking Collegiate will somehow restrict us from looking in the library.
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Dhar InsightWindherder helps with using Winds together without accidentally doing Dhar,

Fixed that for you.
 
LadyLynn said:
Polyglot could also help with this, admittedly: after all, the big library probably has some useful text for this, and there are elves that use multiple Winds from what I understand? (this thread is the source of all my Warhammer knowledge) Still, we will not have access to those forever, and Polyglot won't magically conjure up some Elven tutors that could help us with this. And it's not as if picking Collegiate will somehow restrict us from looking in the library.
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Elf mages generally make use of multiple winds and the pinnacle of their craft is combining them all into one to cast high magic but it takes even an Elf many decades to learn a wind and many centuries to learn high magic so I personally consider it rather foolish for Mathilde to even attempt using a second wind without at least another few decades of practice under her belt with ulgu and even then I'd suggest against it as humans just aren't made to wield multiple winds.
 
Sir LagsAlot said:
Elf mages generally make use of multiple winds and the pinnacle of their craft is combining them all into one to cast high magic but it takes even an Elf many decades to learn a wind and many centuries to learn high magic so I personally consider it rather foolish for Mathilde to even attempt using a second wind without at least another few decades of practice under her belt with ulgu and even then I'd suggest against it as humans just aren't made to wield multiple winds.
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We have a trait specifically for using winds in serial, by having other wizards provide them. It's an entirely external process, whereas elves meditate and spend all that time on mastery to keep their souls from being marked from internal parts of spellcasting - our method specifically makes that a non-concern. Boney lamented that 2500 pages were spent not spending a single AP on following up on this, 2500 pages ago from here.

Enough of that, yeah? We've had the safety to try for ages, let's do it.
 
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Prime 2.0 said:
We have a trait specifically for using winds in serial, by having other wizards provide them. It's an entirely external process, whereas elves meditate and spend all that time on mastery to keep their souls from being marked from internal parts of spellcasting - our method specifically makes that a non-concern. Boney lamented that 2500 pages were spent not spending a single AP on following up on this, 2500 pages ago from here.

Enough of that, yeah? We've had the safety to try for ages, let's do it.
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That's an entirely different thing from using the winds as an Elf would by learning and mastering them ourselves which was what that entire post was obviously referring to. And, you aren't exactly going to be convincing anyone to follow along with your ideas if you're going to be a dick about them like this.
 
Sir LagsAlot said:
Elf mages generally make use of multiple winds and the pinnacle of their craft is combining them all into one to cast high magic but it takes even an Elf many decades to learn a wind and many centuries to learn high magic so I personally consider it rather foolish for Mathilde to even attempt using a second wind without at least another few decades of practice under her belt with ulgu and even then I'd suggest against it as humans just aren't made to wield multiple winds.
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With respect there's no trying to use a second wind like an Elf would no matter how much we train so that's a fools errand and your time line doesn't make any sense the moment Mathilde gained an arcane mark. No the way to cast with another wind is either through windherder or to try out Ulgu tongs.


Sir LagsAlot said:
That's an entirely different thing from using the winds as an Elf would by learning and mastering them ourselves which was what that entire post was obviously referring to. And, you aren't exactly going to be convincing anyone to follow along with your ideas if you're going to be a dick about them like this.
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We're arcane marked casting a 2nd wind as an elf does is impossible. Well strictly speaking we could just ignore the fact that doing so created dhar and go full dhar insanity and then we have all eight winds as a choice but that seems like a bad idea.
 
Sir LagsAlot said:
That's an entirely different thing from using the winds as an Elf would by learning and mastering them ourselves which was what that entire post was obviously referring to. And, you aren't exactly going to be convincing anyone to follow along with your ideas if you're going to be a dick about them like this.
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We're never going to be able to use the winds the way an elf does. Never. We have marks of Ulgu. We can't channel other Winds through our soul. Same reason we can never, ever cast divine spells.

What we can do is upend Teclisean theory our way. Not just retreading elf ground, but blazing a new trail, doing something Teclisean theory considers impossible:
BoneyM said:
I don't think that it's unreasonable that you can't neatly chart a course in advance through something that is completely unprecedented and in fact considered impossible under Teclisean theory. It's rather grating that for 2500 pages I've had people look at the price-tag of one AP to get a better idea of what it would allow and decide to complain that their lack of knowledge is a fault of implementation instead of a result of thread priorities.
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We shouldn't do it next turn, because we have a -10 to everything, but we should definitely start working on Windherder at some point, especially now that we've got some elves on hand to impress.
 
Sir LagsAlot said:
That's an entirely different thing from using the winds as an Elf would by learning and mastering them ourselves which was what that entire post was obviously referring to. And, you aren't exactly going to be convincing anyone to follow along with your ideas if you're going to be a dick about them like this.
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While I understand that context can make it feel otherwise, I didn't actually insult you in any way, nor intend to. I was going for more of a "the time is now, hype hype let's goooooo!" kind of feel.

In return, I'd note that responding to (perceived - you might be wrong) implicit insult with explicit insult is an escalation of toxicity and will start no few fights that had no reason to happen, even if I'm turning down this one.
 
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Didn't have time to read the thread, so just gonna shotput my preferences in I guess?


[X] DIPLO: Interfaith Dialogue
Ranald isn't the most accepted of Gods, but you're growing adept at finding common ground with the other faiths of the Old World.
>Like that white moon shrine! It was vandalized, we're a vandal, we have so much in common!

[X] LESSON: Dhar Insight
You've seen Daemons, the Chaos Wastes, the Windfall. You're reaching as thorough an understanding of the fel energies of Dark Magic as can be attained without actually wielding them.
>It is SO WEIRD to me that this seems to be winning.

[X] DIPLO: Collegiate
[X] DIPLO: Draconic Fascination
[X] DIPLO: Mentor
[X] DIPLO: Trucemaker
All of these are pretty fabulous. But
[X] DIPLO: Polyglot
languages, being able to understand and talk to people, have been so crucial it really makes me wonder what we would have done if we'd taken it back during the Expedition.

[X] LESSON: Logistician
Logistician makes the most sense as a lesson to carry away from this expedition, even if Mystic and Theologian are more interesting to me personally.
 
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[X] DIPLO: Interfaith Dialogue
[X] DIPLO: Draconic Fascination

[X] LESSON: Theologian
 
[X] DIPLO: Dawri
You've lived along Dwarves for long enough that your Wizard robes and Arcane Marks are often the only things preventing you from being mistaken for one. But you could immerse yourself even deeper in Dwarven culture and become able to navigate it like a native.

[X] DIPLO: Draconic Fascination
You've only really spent time with two Dragons, but both have been thoroughly fascinating individuals.

[X] DIPLO: Mentor
Though you've never taken an Apprentice of your own, you have spent quite a bit of time taking less-experienced Wizards under your wing.

[X] DIPLO: Polyglot
If you had been unable to use Khazalid as a bridging language, there were many encounters that could have gone quite badly. There's a great deal of potential benefits to further expanding your linguistic lexicon.

[X] LESSON: Light Fingers
It's not theft, it's espionage. The enemies of the Empire and the Karaz Ankor have all sorts of interesting and portable items that would do a lot of good in friendly hands, from supplies to devices to paperwork.

[X] LESSON: Logistician
Warriors win battles, logistics wins wars. Being able to get what you need to where you need it is halfway to victory.

[X] LESSON: Poker Face
Acting like you always know what's going on has gone from a source of personal amusement to a vital diplomatic first line of defence.

[X] LESSON: Theologian
You have a breadth of experience with the Divine that would put many Priests to shame, and are starting to build tentative overarching theories of the Divine that many might consider heretical.
 
Guile said:
>It is SO WEIRD to me that this seems to be winning.
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I know right? I do have to say it does seem like a lot of people are under the impression it does something it doesn't. E.g., "Dhar Insight will give us insight into not creating Dhar!" Which, no. It's insight into how Dhar is used, not into how to not use Dhar.

I mean, that seems clear enough to me at least. Boney, would you be willing to provide official word on that, if that's something Mathilde might reasonably have thoughts on in-character?
Ganurath said:
It may be useful in reverse-engineering herdstones into waystones.
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To reiterate an argument I've made before, the whole point of the Waystones Project is that Mattie will not be trying to do it all herself. And there's rather a number of plausible candidates to potentially provide insight into such things that we could recruit. For instance, if the Eonir also have the whole Highweaver/Darkweaver thing (AFAICT it's indeterminate at this time, tbf) then they have people who actually do wield Dhar, and do so with elf-level skill. Or in terms of recruiting from the Colleges (which Collegiate would help with, JUST SAYING), the Lights are going to have people who spend most of their time dealing with Dhar bullshit one way or another, and have done so for decades. Or in terms of your specific example, I'm quite dubious that any trait will let us understand herdstones better than a knowledgeable/experienced Amber.

tl;dr is, in terms of the Waystones Project we don't need to invest into reinventing the wheel when there are quite a number of potentially recruitable participants who are already accomplished wheelwrights.
 
Ganurath said:
It may be useful in reverse-engineering herdstones into waystones.
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No, because that's not even the aim of the waystone project. the aim is to learn to repair and reactivate. everything else is the thread's desires. learning to build or convert our own would probably be way, way beyond overachieving and would most likely take longer than 10-15 years.

Edit: Also damnit I hope the vote closes before collegiate catches up to polyglot lol. but i'll take a long vote resulting in theologian winning over dhar insight in exchange for polyglot losing to collegiate since that's also very useful :p
 
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Darth. said:
No, because that's not even the aim of the waystone project. the aim is to learn to repair and reactivate. everything else is the thread's desires. learning to build or convert our own would probably be way, way beyond overachieving and would most likely take longer than 10-15 years.

Edit: Also damnit I hope the vote closes before collegiate catches up to polyglot lol. but i'll take a long vote resulting in theologian winning over dhar insight in exchange for polyglot losing to collegiate since that's also very useful :p
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Isn't "overachieving in something we weren't aiming to do initially" kind of Mathilde's thing? The fall of Castle Drakenhof, commanding the "defense" of Karak Eight Peaks, the rescue of Karak Vlag...
 
Ganurath said:
Isn't "overachieving in something we weren't aiming to do initially" kind of Mathilde's thing? The fall of Castle Drakenhof, commanding the "defense" of Karak Eight Peaks, the rescue of Karak Vlag...
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Castle Drakenhof wasn't Mathilde overachieving. It was the explicit goal of the expedition from Abelhelm.

Anton's overachievement triggered the increased goal.
 
Edit: convinced on polygloy
[X] DIPLO: Polyglot
[X] DIPLO: Interfaith Dialogue
[X] DIPLO: Mentor

[x] LESSON: Dhar Insight
 
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there is a fine line between 'Mathy always overachieves' and 'Mathy can do anything she wants because of PC power'

creating new waystones is very close to that line until we learn something that makes is possible and not just a thread fantasy

But turning herd stones into(or back into depending on lore) waystones is tap-dancing on that line.
 
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