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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Well he asked for it. Time to publicly go into Detail just how he and the other Kingsguard held their oaths And honor.
While expressing how we view things..
 
Pretty sure this is Lord Semly and not former Kingsguard Semly. Barristan probably talked with him about it and decided to ask the question in Barristans stead.
 
DragonParadox said:
Pledges New and Old ​

First Day of the Fifth Month 294 AC

The Lords of the Riverlands were allowed to withdraw without any loss of face or land, though in the case of Lord Mallister you did take care to specifically raise the fact that he would be a vassal of the Twins rather than Riverrun and that you hope he would be a loyal one. The fact that he had been under no obligation to open the door to Lannister agents bearing cursed arms and armor was left unspoken, though certainly not unthought. By contrast, you do not raise the matter of Wayfarer's Rest at all. The children would return either to their mother's kin or to Atranta, while the lands would fall under Imperial administration, the seat of the Governorship of the Midlands.

Next come the Stormlords, stiff-necked and grim as they step into the hall that had so recently been host to 'their' king and his grand feasts. Eyes dart from banner to banner and from face to face, trying to do more than establish the pecking order of the new court, you would judge. According to reports from the airforce, many of them are wary of devils and strange gods as much as they are of shifting customs and imperial displeasure. Well, devils they will surely find. You have long since stopped asking the Erinyes to hide their wings in public given their leal service to the throne.

And so they bow and offer up the vows asked of them, Lords Penrose and Mertyns, Cefferen, Caron, and Morrigen. Lord Peasebury of Podfield actually seems enthusiastic in his vows and not just for the eyes of the court, but then a man who has just had his free will stripped from him during the last reign is less likely to look to the one who helped save him as a tyrant.

Selmy... Fuck, Selmy is going to be a problem, you can tell that as soon as you see him march up to the throne. His step is defiant, even if it is almost the defiance of a man waking to the gallows. One might almost admire the sheer iron balls of the man, to be able to do that after he confronted Amrelath of all people. A pity his head appears to be iron all the way through.

As he rises from his knees Arstan Selmy asks a question many of his peers had done, though unlike them you doubt he has flattery on the mind. "Your Majesty, may I address the throne and the court?"

"I foresee a headache, and being a seer and all, I am rarely wrong," Dany sends as she looks the man up and down with a thoroughly draconic expression, the sort that were he the kind of man to look at the faces of children, might have warned him that he was about to regret his next words.

"Granted," you reply, keeping your tone carefully neutral.

"It has come to my attention that you would see the Order of the Kingsguard disbanded and replaced with those possessed of... more arcane skills. I am not such a fool as to think a ruler does not need protection against such perils as the age brings, but I beseech you, Your Majesty, do not cast off the Order that has served Your House well since the days of Aegon."

One cannot fault the man's passion anymore than his courage. He can hold the eyes of the chamber, tough you cannot help but wonder how many of them are doing so from morbid curiosity as to his fate. Stannis, at least, is watching you carefully... Is that a glimmer of sympathy in his eye at seeing you faced with his bannerman's foibles?

"I do not ask that you keep one knight or another in the guard. That is the prerogative of the sovereign, and given the sad history of the last twelve years it might even be counted necessary." A sigh escapes his lips, ruffling his mustache like grass withered grey in some forlorn wind. "I ask only that you keep knights bold and honorable at your side and not replace all of them with... other sorts. Witness the great deeds of young Ser Waymar Royce or Ser Richard Lonmouth, whose valor and skill at arms has been long known among Stormlords."

It is perhaps fortunate for Arstan Semy that of all the skills Ser Richard had honed and all the enchantments he now wields, none of them can actually make his glare skewer a man where he stands.

Alas, you do not have the luxury of dismissing the words out of hand as self-serving or foolish. In speaking of this in this place and this hour, he has raised the stakes of a symbolic battle; who shall be closest to the throne in times of strife, 'knights bold and true' or those said knights do not trust in the slightest?

What do you reply?

[] The Kingsguard was an antiquated institution working off flawed principles from the first, conflicting vows that could only lead to tragedy. Leaving aside the matter of the last few years for a moment, who here can judge it good that a man history recalls as 'the Kingmaker' once donned a white cloak

[] Heavy are the oaths of the knight, but neither more nor less worthy than those of others who have sworn themselves to you. You are not king of the Seven Kingdoms, but Imperator and from your Praetorian Guard which has proven itself so finely in both King's landing and Casterly Rock, none shall be excluded for lacking a title used only in Westeros and not even all of it

[] Write in

OOC: Part of moving to a more institutional framework is setting the tone of your interactions with the old power systems in a courtly context. What you say here and now will be one of the foundational arguments whenever similar conflicts arrive. I'm just using Selmy here as vector because he is the only one brave and foolish enough to say what many are thinking. Not yes edited.
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Here's an edited version of the chapter, DP.
 
Duesal said:
@DragonParadox, what would be the immediate result of this? It reads like former Kingsguard members being welcomed into the Praetorian Guard.
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That is not the case, the two default choices are about what you want to focus on, the fact that the kingsguard is antiquated and flawed due to conflicting oaths or the fact that is is not representative for a state that stretches far beyond the lands where knights are relevant. Neither of the options compel you to take people in to the Guard, that is a decision far below Viserys' notice once policy has been set, and it has been.
 
Shador said:
Both options already refuse to mantain the Kingsguard. We just need to choose how to refuse for PR purposes.
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Aye, I know that this will end with us declaring our refusal.

The Vote is about how do we present the refusal.

It's just that I held the Kingsguard in contemptible remark especially those that served Robert and how they (and organisation made by Aegon I for Targaryen Kings) BOWS TO THE STAG THAT SQUATS!!!

Their loyalty is as sturdy as a fistful of sand. And if they can't kill themselves in order to save our hide instead of serving the highest bidder, I. Wont. Trust. Them.

Individually as a people? Certainly. But not as an institution.
 
lancelot said:
No he already said who is in it doesn't matter, implying starting from scratch is fine.
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Ah, fair enough. Still no.

Mostly because A. We've seen what their loyalty is worth and we can literally build better servitors out of cowshit that'd be more loyal, B. Our standard issue Legionaries could probably take them head to head in a sword fight, let alone our Praetorians or other stronger forces, and C. They already had their chance to protect our family and they fucked it up so hard we could make a book series about it.

Also I misread, this isn't the guy we fired, it's his, I think nephew, great nephew?
 
[X] There are the Praetori, the Imperial Legions and the Imperial Airforce, who fight in your name. Many knights already have joined these institutions and proven themselves there. The Imperium is more than just Westeros and likewise, it's institutions need to be broader than it, but he is mistaken if he thinks that there are no knights in your service or that the realm as no place for them.
 
Evaunit02mark1 said:
Mostly because A. We've seen what their loyalty is worth and we can literally build better servitors out of cowshit that'd be more loyal, B. Our standard issue Legionaries could probably take them head to head in a sword fight, let alone our Praetorians or other stronger forces, and C. They already had their chance to protect our family and they fucked it up so hard we could make a book series about it.
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Somehow I'm pretty sure Aerys made them protecting anything a complete cluster fuck. I wouldn't be surprised if everyone involved in protecting the crazy fuck had PTSD.
 
lancelot said:
Somehow I'm pretty sure Aerys made them protecting anything a complete cluster fuck. I wouldn't be surprised if everyone involved in protecting the crazy fuck had PTSD.
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True, but they still could have protected his heirs form their enemies if not his spouse from his attentions, or at least have made the attempt.

Edit: Vote
[X] Azel
 
[X] Knights are inefficient. They cost too much compared to their power. The throne is fiscally responsible and will be guarded by a dozen of the super seekers.
 
[X] Azel

Yeah we actually have knights in our service. No idea what exactly they are doing though. Are some in our Palace guard and/or doing what?
 
mrsean22 said:
[X] Azel

Yeah we actually have knights in our service. No idea what exactly they are doing though. Are some in our Palace guard and/or doing what?
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The knights are split up in a lot of different places. Some join the Legion as part of the mounted forces, some join Waymar's Griffon Order, seven are sitting around protecting the Great Sept of Sorcerer's Deep as a Temple Guard, and a bunch more are acting as imperial PCs running around killing things for us.
 
[ ]The Kingsguard was made to serve the King. They are his protectors and his blades.
Those who wish to serve the Emperor. Those who seek to serve the Imperium. Those who answer to me alone?
I have my Kingsguard. They have proven themselves against uncountable horrors both mortal and eldritch
Why would replace them with the rusted swords of tainted white plate of those that failed to save not just one but two kings?
Especially when they chose another over me?

Let them keep the name. It's past glories are untouched.
Maybe they can find a lord who wishes to pretend he's more important than he really is.
(Cruel punishment. Causes the Kingsguard to lose even more face by degrading it into a simple merc bodyguard agency. Never again to have it's storied title worn by the supposedly untarnished best of Chivalry )
OR


[ ] The King's Guard had lost it's honor twofold. Once when it was used by a mad man to commit his sins, and again to when it failed to guard my cousin from treachery while warmed the Throne for my return. The reasons for its dissolution is likewise twofold. It is not equipped to fight the threats we face, and its members do not possess the skills or the aptitude to be of use as its intended purpose.
It is simply better to leave it behind as it is than to see its legacy torn apart by failure and dishonor.
If someone were to try and reform it so that it is once again relevant. It would still have to earn its place back in the order of things by proving itself up to the task.
Better to simply continue as I have. We're still at war and it is against the very hell's themselves. Let those who seek to serve serve. They shall find distinction and honor in the Army, they shall be armed with the greatest of weapons and trained by those who literally embody virtue and vice.
Let the Kingsguard rest. Or else it will die in a battle it was not made for.
(Letting it down easy. Retirement for the Kingsguard. Hope for a future elite group to refrom under it's name. Hopefully a paladin order)
 
Duesal said:
The knights are split up in a lot of different places. Some join the Legion as part of the mounted forces, some join Waymar's Griffon Order, seven are sitting around protecting the Great Sept of Sorcerer's Deep as a Temple Guard, and a bunch more are acting as imperial PCs running around killing things for us.
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Then this guy basically insulted all the knights in our service. Heck we had a few knights when we were just in the Stepstones and even more after Tyrosh.
 
Evaunit02mark1 said:
True, but they still could have protected his heirs form their enemies if not his spouse from his attentions, or at least have made the attempt.
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Did they know where they ran after Dragon stone, and what options were they given when captured?

Pretty sure Bob didn't know where we were until we became magic famous otherwise we'd have assassins on us every other week.
 
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