Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Earth
Yeah... if Waystones win you can say goodbye to Book-boon. We'll need that thing to ensure cooperation between secretive Runelords and the Elgi. Like, no Runelord is going to trust those secrets to an Elgi, but with Mat's reputation and standing, as well as position as Loremaster, she might convince someone like Thorek to tell her about the Waystones, especially if Belegar has her officially working on it.
But that kind of support is going to cost us, so say goodbye to the dreams of unlimited book-works. Even if we don't need it for the Runelords, we'll probably need it for something else related to the Waystones, and a large, eternal, general library just doesn't serve that purpose.
If Waystones wins, voting to spend the Boon on Books is foolish and wasteful. It's too generalised for the job, and that job is too important. I could see it as spending to Boon of Belegar trying to get us everything he can get on Waystones, but diluting the Boon further would be irresponsible.
EDIT: Book-boon is most compatibile with Loremaster at large, Sinecure, and a Research Hiatus most of all. A Research Hiatus vote would all but demand a Book Boon for it.
But that kind of support is going to cost us, so say goodbye to the dreams of unlimited book-works. Even if we don't need it for the Runelords, we'll probably need it for something else related to the Waystones, and a large, eternal, general library just doesn't serve that purpose.
If Waystones wins, voting to spend the Boon on Books is foolish and wasteful. It's too generalised for the job, and that job is too important. I could see it as spending to Boon of Belegar trying to get us everything he can get on Waystones, but diluting the Boon further would be irresponsible.
EDIT: Book-boon is most compatibile with Loremaster at large, Sinecure, and a Research Hiatus most of all. A Research Hiatus vote would all but demand a Book Boon for it.
Last edited:
- Location
- New England, State of Confusion
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Loremaster-at-Large of Karak Eight Peaks
After thinking on it a bit, I think the dwarf infection must spread.
After thinking on it a bit, I think the dwarf infection must spread.
Last edited:
Actually, and I say this as someone who was never keen on Bookboon, it seems like one of the most pertinent things to spend it on in support of. We see from Mathilde's estimation "Prying open restricted libraries" is one of the go to options. Something Belegar is actually pretty well suited to accomplish for us. Meanwhile his leverage over Runesmiths is pretty slim, if the job isn't convincing on its own merits, he's not got the authority to twist their arm into it.
Last edited:
Ya, no
Gather information is the mission statement.
Bookboon is absolutely well sprent on Waystones.
We have a loooot of AV to spend on rune smiths if needed.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
The Transcendent Boon can't be used to secure Runelord secrets - Belegar isn't a Runelord and thus has no ability to hand them over.
At most it could be used on a project that'll work to earn favour with the Runelords, but even there I'm not sure what that would be - Research Institute Boon maybe? A properly managed Bookboon might even do it a bit (something like giving each Runelord an individual, super-secure, vault in a section guarded by a priest of Thungni - that they can hand down to an apprentice, so that if they die after finding a worthy apprentice but before the end of apprenticeship their apprentice still gets all their insights)
Last edited:
what in the actual fuck?
Where did you get the idea that we'll be spending BELEGARS UBBER BIG DICK BOON on mother fucking Waystones?
Like how? he know's shit on waystones which is why he is interested in them and why much of the thread believes he would support us with this project. Where the bloody hell are you getting Belegar can get this knowledge?
Heck, which dwarf besides Thogrim are you getting we can get this knowledge? because quite clearly Kragg the motherfucking Grim knows shit and it quite clearly says in the tide returns update that nobody besides Thogrim knows about the waystones.
please explain how Belegar's going to get this info because i sure as fuck know Thogrim who has the most know how on the waystone in the Karaz Ankor didn't even know reclaiming old holds could reactivate their waystones and thus save the dwarf race.
So, I ask again, where are you getting this idea that Belegar can actually get this info or has it on hand that we'd have to spend a boon because i sure as fuck ain't seeing it.
Well, Markgraf and Tutor have fallen quite behind. But at least loremaster isn't winning, so that's a plus.
FlyingScanian
Tea Addict
- Location
- Land of Eternal Night
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Argh, still having trouble deciding... but I think either of these two would be my top... (although I'd be quite happy with either of top 4 winning)
[x] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
[x] The Waystone Project
[x] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
[x] The Waystone Project
- Location
- Utrecht
There is nothing Belegar can do to make runesmiths more talkative, and he has even less influence with the Elves than we do.
Otoh, ensuring that the stuff we discover has a safe place to be stored...
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
That doesn't make sense. It's a boon from Belegar. Belegar can shout at the Cult of Thungni until he's blue in the face without making them do anything they don't want to. He can't order them around; they're a Guild and a Cult and a Clan.
If we have trouble with runesmiths not wanting to play ball, we're going to have to solve it the old-fashioned Mathilde way: by convincing them, bribing them with daemon-blood, or asking who they want dead and making a pile of skulls on their desks until they beg us to stop. But Belegar's Transcendent Boon can't disappear the problem.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
Kragg the Grim doesn't know enough. But that's not the same as knowing nothing.
And it doesn't say that Thorgrim is the only one who knows about Waystones, it says he's the only one who knows about the fact the waystones power the Karak Runes of Valaya that keep the dwarven race alive.
- Location
- Earth
That's...excally what I said. That if you're using it for Waystones, you'll need to use it for Waystones. Not a general library.
Bullshit. Give me one argument that spending the boon on "General Library on all topics" is better for Waystones than "Get me everything you can on Waystones".
That's not Bookboon. Bookboon is the full library, gather all knowledge project. That's too wide for Waystones. We'll spend the Boon, but it will be on Waystone knowledge and hidden lore, not general books and a grand library.
You might be right on the sharing of secrets. But Belegar, as a Dwarven King, can sure as hell tell them to work with us on this and keep their secrets. Something many Runelords might be more than a bit miffed to see some Umgi invading their turf.
I don't think that's how it works, but if you have WoB on that, I'd love to hear it. As far as I can tell, as long as they are a Clan in his Hold, they are ultimatly under his authority. Not command, but authority. He can't order them to help, but he can sure as hell provide approval and offer favors and payment in exchange. As well as grumble at them if he thinks they are being obstructionist.
- Location
- Earth
K8P does not have a Runesmith Clan.
Also, I'm not at all convinced that the "known by only two living dawi" wasn't Thorgrim's POV rather than narratorial statement of truth. If nobody is talking about it, he doesn't know who might know. Like, does the Cult of Valaya really not know or are they just not saying anything?
We have a multi-tower tower on top of a misty mountain. It has labs, library, comfy study with a dragonskull chair, a captive Skaven and a nuclear shadow. Within a convenient distance we have halfling eateries, cosmopolitan bars, first western pick of Silk Road goods (and rumours), our own intelligence office, our own sacred casino, Dawi royal vault, a gyrocopter port that nearly always has a vehicle at our disposal, an entire population that really respects us and, our girlfriend. Why would we take a job that requires us to live somewhere else when there are worthwhile things to do from here?
It won't be a "General library" this is a huge boon, negotiating for restricted access books will be happening regardless. "Give me the best there ever was" is the basic guidelines we're operating under for how the request will be taken.
Last edited:
Because it's a wide, wonderful world to see and experience?
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
That and the fact that they're isn't a Runesmith guild in K8P, just Kragg because Kragg can do whatever he wants.
Student of Zelretch
Give me back ice on my lake.
- Location
- Wisconsin Public Radio
[X] Bodyguard and Tutor to Prince Mandred
[X] Loremaster-at-Large of Karak Eight Peaks
[x] The Waystone Project
[X] Loremaster-at-Large of Karak Eight Peaks
[x] The Waystone Project
- Location
- Utrecht
I don't think the view gets much better, though.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I don't have direct WoB on this topic specifically, but I've got a couple on related topics, because people have been asking about "can Belegar get the runesmiths to do X for us" for a while.
Here's "Can Belegar get Kragg to tell us X".
Here's "Can Belegar get the runesmiths to spread their knowledge more widely," which I think is the closest we get to the topic of "cooperating on the Waystone project."
These are also excellent points. He doesn't have his own Runesmiths sworn to obey him as their king, he just has Runesmiths who happen to be living in his hold but who are sworn to other Holds (only Kragg full-time afaik, but Thorek is here a lot too with his apprentice swarm).
Last edited:
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I mean, just to begin with, they aren't a clan in his hold. The only Runesmith living in K8P is Kragg.
tapkomet
Senātus Populusque Rōmānus
- Location
- Ukraine
Speaking of boons, have people done breakdowns of what we're likely to use the Boon for depending on what wins? Here are my thoughts::
- Loremaster: library/research institute work just fine. Loremaster doesn't seem to introduce any new uses for the Boon.
- Waystones: as above, but we might also use the Boon to aid with our job directly somewhat, since I assume research will be a part of it. A Deed might be useful for something relating to the project (perhaps to secure the cooperation of someone in particular in the Empire), although nothing immediately comes to mind.
- Bodyguard: it's unclear if BOOKBOON is suitable if we live in Altdorf. We might want to organize something analogous in Altdorf perhaps? Belegar can't give us anything that would really help with this job, but a Deed may be useful for Empire politics.
- Markgraf: arguably the biggest shake-up. As with Bodyguard, BOOKBOON in K8P may be excessively awkward to make use of. At the same time, doing it in Sylvania seems like not the best choice if we want knowledge to be preserved through Empire turmoil. At the same time, we may want to spend the Boon, the Deed, or both on something more closely related to Sylvania.
- Loremaster: library/research institute work just fine. Loremaster doesn't seem to introduce any new uses for the Boon.
- Waystones: as above, but we might also use the Boon to aid with our job directly somewhat, since I assume research will be a part of it. A Deed might be useful for something relating to the project (perhaps to secure the cooperation of someone in particular in the Empire), although nothing immediately comes to mind.
- Bodyguard: it's unclear if BOOKBOON is suitable if we live in Altdorf. We might want to organize something analogous in Altdorf perhaps? Belegar can't give us anything that would really help with this job, but a Deed may be useful for Empire politics.
- Markgraf: arguably the biggest shake-up. As with Bodyguard, BOOKBOON in K8P may be excessively awkward to make use of. At the same time, doing it in Sylvania seems like not the best choice if we want knowledge to be preserved through Empire turmoil. At the same time, we may want to spend the Boon, the Deed, or both on something more closely related to Sylvania.