Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
ngl, seeing you vote to yolo just like straight up makes me kinda sad. Also holy shit how the hell do I have 4000 posts in this thread.. :o
I am sincerely sorry to make you sad. I shall attempt to be less flippant in this post: I was phoneposting before, which is why I wasn't particularly wordy, but the presence of non-Chaos Divine energies, and the fact that we aren't seeing active mutations of either the human skeletons or the landscape, or in evidence from the beastman corpses, makes me go "something fucky is up and has made Morghur a lot safer to be around than normal, if that even is Morghur." So my threat assessment of what's going on has gone from "5/5 red alert we need to GTFO yesterday" to "4/5, we need to be ready to GTFO at a moment's notice but we should be OK to sniff around cautiously."
 
I'm postive other than putting on a show for Borek against invading Kurgans, the army is unnecessary at this point, but still useful as witnesses to how Karak Dum has not been corrupted or fallen.

Is it possible to return here alone on a solo mission to visit Borek and establish first contact properly, without getting bog down by a army, its not like we have to fight Karak Dum at this point. Karak Vlag has been liberated already. A small party of elite specialist who can explain all this phenomena.
 
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I am still trying to figure out why anyone thinks it would be a good idea to go through dense forest filled with beastmen, towards a mountain where we don't know the entrance is, by ourselves, when there is a risk of being turned into a chaos spawn when using magic, and we have no clue as to if we would be even welcome in the mountain? And of course, then make our way back…


How much actual exploring of forests and dense woodland has Mathilde actually had? If anyone could do it out of this group, I would expect it to be the rangers...

I understand the vote for talk to other people to get information

.... We know that rocks and stone are being transformed into sand what else is going on. We know there are a lot of bones and banners which haven't been turned to sand, maybe we should test what is actually affected and how

Suggestion, put some water, metal (coins, or other random bits and pieces), random rocks (but not from the edge, somewhere a bit further back), etc into the area and see if they transform into something, put the same stuff in an area about to be transformed and wait to see how it changes or if it does.
Mathilde's 25 intrigue and advanced infiltration skill tells me she will be quite good at sneaking through forests. The fact that there isn't a single shred of evidence that this creature can actually do that, and three pieces of evidence against, headpat, trees, bones leads me to believe that he cannot do that, and the fact that the local Kurgan are unlikely to be friends of the Dawi, and therefore probably don't know what's up with Karag Dum.
 
I'm postive other than putting on a show for Borek against invading Kurgans, the army is unnecessary at this point, but still useful as witnesses to how Karak Dum has not been corrupted or fallen.

Is it possible to return here alone on a solo mission to visit Borek and establish first contact properly, without getting bog down by a army, its not like we have to fight Karak Dum at this point. Karak Vlag has been liberated already. A small party of elite specialist who can explain all this phenomena.
Realistically, if we leave now, we're never coming back. The Knights and Dwarfs being here means we can poke around, observe, and come to relative safety if attacked. Without them, the first time we're threatened by anything or have to get past anything, we'll be forced to face-check whether Morghur's anti-spellcaster aura works or not. And even with our magic, there's a limit to how many enemies we can avoid, particularly if they have mages of their own.

Plus, how are they bogging us down exactly? If we want to go on a solo op, we can do that no problem.
 
Mathilde's 25 intrigue and advanced infiltration skill tells me she will be quite good at sneaking through forests. The fact that there isn't a single shred of evidence that this creature can actually do that, and three pieces of evidence against, headpat, trees, bones leads me to believe that he cannot do that, and the fact that the local Kurgan are unlikely to be friends of the Dawi, and therefore probably don't know what's up with Karag Dum.
The real problem is the couple miles of sand which gives anyone in the forest a very good view of anyone approaching.
We won't even get to the forest unseen.
 
I'm postive other than putting on a show for Borek against invading Kurgans, the army is unnecessary at this point, but still useful as witnesses to how Karak Dum has not been corrupted or fallen.

Is it possible to return here alone on a solo mission to visit Borek and establish first contact properly, without getting bog down by a army, its not like we have to fight Karak Dum at this point. Karak Vlag has been liberated already. A small party of elite specialist who can explain all this phenomena.
This is still the Chaos Wastes, Surprise Daemons is entirely within the realm of possibilities.

No, I don't want Mathilde here alone.
 
[x] Attempt to scout the forest at the base of the Karak
[X] Attempt to infiltrate the Karak with magic
[x] Attempt to infiltrate the Karak without magic
[X] Fortify here and see if anything interesting happens over the next day
 
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The real problem is the couple miles of sand which gives anyone in the forest a very good view of anyone approaching.
We won't even get to the forest unseen.
We can literally turn invisible and teleport, we'll be fine, and even without magic there's no guarantee that this morghur lookalike is actually watching us, considering that it has at least two other fronts to worry about.
 
Assuming the progress of time at Dum is the same as back home (which may not be the case), 185(years)*400(days to a year on Mallus)*6(inches per day)*inch = 444000 inches = 7.008 miles = 11.28 km
So the desert in the crater is roughly 400 square km?

@BoneyM Is there any area between the lip of the crater and the desert that isn't also desert? Or does it seem like maybe the crater itself is only a crater because solid ground is being eroded away into what seems like a lesser volume in sand?

Also, what happens to local rocks or pieces of dirt that get thrown into the desert?

Lastly, is there anything at all akin to left behind equipment or clothing, or anything really, left behind from previous battles? Or are there only bones and standing flags?
Mathilde likes not being a Chaos Spawn, which is what spellcasters are said to turn into if they try to do magic around Morghur.
How far is usually meant by "around Morghur"? Because if we don't see him in the desert he is 3+ miles away.

I'd personally be willing to risk that.
Not that Mathilde has heard of. Needing to be Valayan-equivalent-of-baptized to not petrify kind of leaves an impression. But there's probably been some.
There's probably some Imperial Expat Dwarves that worship Umgi gods in addition to the Ancestors.
The update literally says that the beastmen bones indicate they were always beastmen, and not transformed.
It did not. It indicated that the Beastmen skulls in the desert were Beastmen who grew their horns in a natural lifespan. Dum might be this way for 185 years. How old do normal Beastmen get? These might be the "natural"-born children of the Dwarf-Beastmen.

@BoneyM How many Beastman skulls did Esbern and Sejia look at to come to their conclusion? Did they say that there are natural lifespan Beastmen here or that those were the only type they found?
They didn't notice anything unusual from the inside. The bones are bones, with the flesh gone there's not enough data to go off. Forensic anthropology isn't a thing yet.
I knew not having the full eight Winds represented among the Wizards would come to bite us in the ass.
If anyone tries to tell me that we can leave now and we will come back later...

Please stop.


We all know that to travel here is way too dangerous to come back, just to maybe learn something that maybe in the future could affect the Empire or Karak Ankor.

Either we do something now or never.
Saying otherwise is almost the same as lying, especially when an important part of the posters wanted to go back and not even try to learn what is going on here.
Maybe we can ride here on Cython's back. :V
After spending most of their time inside and only coming out with a rag across their mouth? They're in no more danger than the average Stirlandian when the wind blows from the east.
Wait, just how many people fit in to all the remaining Steam Wagons while sleeping uncomfortably?

Also, what about the mounts?
Unless they do so at the exact opposite side of Karag Dum, you can witness that from where you are.
Aren't the sides 90 degrees away from us still pretty far? Like, too far to witness stuff like preparations, effects of spells or causes of spontaneous mutations? And that's not even taking into account potential battles beyond the treeline.
Cor-Dum turns people that use magic nearby defined as "On the same battlefield" into chaos spawns.
How large is "on the same battlefield"? Warhammer Tabletop battlefields are tiny. Real battlefields are also usually less than 20 km across.
The forest rings the mountain. Deathfang dropping Mathilde on the mountain just means she has to make her way through the forest from the top rather than the bottom, and puts the Beastmen on edge because dragon.
Can't he drop us directly at the gate? Or at least as close as the maps of Karak Dum that we have can indicate said entrance?
 
We can literally turn invisible and teleport, we'll be fine, and even without magic there's no guarantee that this morghur lookalike is actually watching us, considering that it has at least two other fronts to worry about.
No. I am not interested in Chaos Spawn Mathilde.
While there is only one Morghur, there is an entire Beasthorde.

We won't get to the forest undetected.
 
Perhaps rather than being Cor-Dum this thing is actually a divine servitor of whatever god is at work here. It's just using Cor-Dum's body as a vessel, presumably after the real thing was caputred.
 
i did mention a small elite team of specialist. Think Azula from Avatar, a army takes longer to travel, increases the chance of casualties from combat and enviromental hazards, whereas a small team of elite specialist, can travel faster, hide better and remain unnoticed, actually knows what they are doing in tight situations.

Can we ask some of the flying knights and the two animal wizards to look at the otherside of the battle, and see what happens if magic is used?
Can we consult them on how accurate a beastmen hearing and sense of smell is, when looking for invisible person.
 
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[X] Attempt to infiltrate the Karak with magic
We have the Belt, we should be safe from Dhar
 
[X] Fortify here and see if anything interesting happens over the next day
[X] Approach the Kvellige camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them
 
If these were beastmen, why are all the bones in the desert anyway?

It says in the update. They were eating in haste, so they wouldn't have had time to consume the bones. By the way the fact that these cuddly entities are in fact eating sapient beings is a pretty solid reason not to engage in diplomacy with them. There aren't lot of order factions did you eat the Chaos raiders. The closest I can think of is dwarfs eating troll.
 
It did not. It indicated that the Beastmen skulls in the desert were Beastmen who grew their horns in a natural lifespan. Dum might be this way for 185 years. How old do normal Beastmen get? These might be the "natural"-born children of the Dwarf-Beastmen.
The post I was replying through was saying all the beastmen are dwarves, though. Or at least, I thought it did.

How large is "on the same battlefield"? Warhammer Tabletop battlefields are tiny. Real battlefields are also usually less than 20 km across.
Someone calculated Karag Dum is approximately 11 km from us, so even if it's in the forest on the other side it would still be close enough to proc. (If it was happening, and I'm certain it isn't.)
 
[X] Fortify here and see if anything interesting happens over the next day
[X] Approach the Kvellige camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them
 
I don't think we are ever returning to Dum, so I am not willing to leave until we discover what is actually happening.

Dwarfs aren't going to be happy either way, as even the more benevolent outcome is ultra-radical and quite heretical behaviour on the part of Dum, but there is a world of difference between Dawi Zharr 2.0 or Ultra-radicals.

And we need to know which of the two it is.
 
[X] Attempt to approach Morghur to see if he can be communicated with
[X] Attempt to scout the forest at the base of the Karak
[X] Attempt to infiltrate the Karak with magic
[X] Attempt to infiltrate the Karak without magic
[X] Approach the Kul camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them
[X] Approach the Kvellige camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them

In the hugger I trust.
 
i did mention a small elite team of specialist. Think Azula from Avatar, a army takes longer to travel, increases the chance of casualties from combat and enviromental hazards, whereas a small team of elite specialist, can travel faster, hide better and remain unnoticed, actually knows what they are doing in tight situations.
Also since Morghur is here we could probably count on at least one fairly powerful Athel Loren elf joining such a trip. They would be insufferable but would morghur is one of the few things they are actually willing to leave their forest over in force. A specialist to join the party and see if this is the real thing seems like something they would, grudgingly, do.
 
It says in the update. They were eating in haste, so they wouldn't have had time to consume the bones. By the way the fact that these cuddly entities are in fact eating sapient beings is a pretty solid reason not to engage in diplomacy with them. There aren't lot of order factions did you eat the Chaos raiders. The closest I can think of is dwarfs eating troll.
And our bestest friend The We. They're mutants whose primary diet is sapient lifeforms.
 
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