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For the record, it's nowhere near Mathilde's responsibility to take care of widows and orphans of this Exhibition. There's an entire social framework of debt and responsibility that will see to it.

Alternatively, maybe he can use some of his spells on that rock, to determine if the rock is more likely to crumble and fail or not? Brain is failing me right now but... it was the same spell he used on the mining spot of Karak Eight Peaks.

Same goes for any other useful spells any wizards might have. For scanning and determining if the rock might give way.

None of the Wizards have any sort of affinity for stone or geology. Meanwhile, the Dwarves are, you know, Dwarves.
 
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Wow, I was already feeling pretty off-balance, with the day I had, so when the notification popped up, I though 'hey! Maybe things aren't so bad"

Welp, I'm feeling absolutely disconnected to everything right now, so I'm not even gonna bother reading, or participating on the discussion!

Good update, fuck you Ranald, and later!
 
We probably need to start thinking of how to get the other wizards home. Like, yeah, this is a highly risky mission with guaranteed causalities (which we've already experienced), but Mathlide is a Lady Magister, and has both authority and responsibility over the other wizards. We have a duty to make sure as many get home as safely as possible. I mean, we're not going to get all of them, but lets at least try for 13/13, shall we?

Max, Johann and Hubert are not going to leave our side (and vice versa), Esbern and Seija can probably look after themselves, and I give Cyrston 50/50 odds of surviving by himself (future him explored Lustria, after all, but he is currently a journeymanling). The choir is under Egrimm's authority. That leaves Alexandra (who we know almost nothing about) and Michel for us to look after. (I still think Michel has an apparition, by the way).

Actually, now that I think about it, that's a pretty solid group. Two and a half survival experts (Ambers + Jade), multiple clear and mature heads (including 40 year old journeywoman Alexandra, who can be a voice of reason to the other journeymen without outranking them), significant ranged firepower (Max, Choir, Michel, Alexandra), and five hand to hand combat experts (Mathlide, Johann, Hubert, Esbern and Seija). If we throw Asarnil and Deathfang on top of all of that, that's actually a hell of a team. Shame it won't be enough by itself to get the knights and dwarfs home, but I think Team Magic has a decent chance by itself.

We definitely need to social Alexandra in the coming turns, and maybe a second round with Egrimm and the choir, but I'm actually confident we have the skills to get a good chunk of the wizards home now.
 
Sitting on the latest DL update, I think I would have liked a moment to vote on "Try to do something in the moment of the avalanche/fall which risks almost certain death or wait until after to begin rescue work".

If that had happened, then it would have felt like there was some choice in the matter. That we could seriously almost certainly die and maybe rescue some people before the crash, or wait until it finishes moving and try to help the survivors.

As it is, there was literally nothing that could have been done, and I think I've taken a lesson from this for story telling and will not follow up on DL for a while.

May you all have a Happy New Year and an enjoyable game.
 
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If all goes wrong Mathilde can hunt gribblies and we can try to eat them.
 
Might change her mind later or our reading of her is wrong.
Then I guess she misses out on that opportunity. Which, well, as BoneyM points out...
For the record, it's nowhere near Mathilde's responsibility to take care of widows and orphans of this Exhibition. There's an entire social framework of debt and responsibility that will see to it.
Yeah, the only reason it's really being discussed for Gotrek's widow is solely due to the fact that Gotri had brought up the idea of offering Clan status for Gotrek back before the expedition commenced. (And because some of us knew Gotrek via the Gotrek and Felix books, and this came as a surprise.) And that was as a quasi-bribe/quasi-influence thing, not as a post-death thing. It just sort of bled over into making the offer to his widow anyway. A blurring of the lines sort of.

But yeah, it's totally true that it's not really Mathilde's place or responsibility. And it was expected for people to die during this anyway.
 
Sitting on the latest DL update, I think I would have liked a moment to vote on "Try to do something in the moment of the avalanche/fall which risks almost certain death or wait until after to begin rescue work".

If that had happened, then it would have felt like there was some choice in the matter. That we could seriously almost certainly die and maybe rescue some people before the crash, or wait until it finishes moving and try to help the survivors.

As it is, there was literally nothing that could have been done, and I think I've taken a lesson from this for story telling and will not follow up on DL for a while.

May you all have a Happy New Year and an enjoyable game.
Mathilde isn't omniscient. But I do understand the about it being an emotional strike from a quest you e gotten seriously invested in, I've had to take breaks myself over the years in similar situations.
But yeah, it's totally true that it's not really Mathilde's place or responsibility. And it was expected for people to die during this anyway.
People aren't used to it given our streak since we left Stirland's employ.
 
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I,uh, don't really care personally about Gotrek, so I can't say I'm really saddened. The fact that our repair guy is dead however is concerning, but hopefully we make slapdash repairs with our golds. Other than that, I can't say that the situation has changed enough to scrap the mission.

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Sitting on the latest DL update, I think I would have liked a moment to vote on "Try to do something in the moment of the avalanche/fall which risks almost certain death or wait until after to begin rescue work".

If that had happened, then it would have felt like there was some choice in the matter. That we could seriously almost certainly die and maybe rescue some people before the crash, or wait until it finishes moving and try to help the survivors.

As it is, there was literally nothing that could have been done, and I think I've taken a lesson from this for story telling and will not follow up on DL for a while.
That's just life and campaigning. Sometimes you don't get a choice at all. Sometimes you only get to react after the fact.

Also: sometimes a game or quest is not solely about choices, but also about the dice rolls. And in this scenario, the dice rolls for Mathilde's Search and Rescue efforts did not pan out. (Nor did the dice for Gotrek surviving himself.)

I mean, look at the fact that everybody else wasn't able to do anything at all either. Even Deathfang was only able to save himself and Asarnil.

From another perspective -- why isn't everybody else not equally entitled to agency and choice in this situation? Why is it only Mathilde that should especially get to have a reaction and choice of whether to desperately risk her life on this or not? Why is Mathilde singled out for this? As it was, the fact that Mathilde was able to be the first on the scene, and start pulling people out, means she beat out everyone else for agency and reaction speed.

If the recovery roll had been better than an 8, maybe the Engineers would have saved themselves or maybe Deathfang could have ended up contributing to the recovery and saving of the steam-wagon.
 
Sitting on the latest DL update, I think I would have liked a moment to vote on "Try to do something in the moment of the avalanche/fall which risks almost certain death or wait until after to begin rescue work".

If that had happened, then it would have felt like there was some choice in the matter. That we could seriously almost certainly die and maybe rescue some people before the crash, or wait until it finishes moving and try to help the survivors.

As it is, there was literally nothing that could have been done, and I think I've taken a lesson from this for story telling and will not follow up on DL for a while.

May you all have a Happy New Year and an enjoyable game.

I try to avoid pointless votes, and saying 'hey do you want a 90% chance of ending the quest right now to maybe save a minor character' is about as pointless as it gets. It would just make a bunch of players feel guilty for not taking it, turning a tragic accident into the players' fault for not intervening.

Not everything revolves around the PC. Sometimes tragedy strikes and there's just nothing that can be done. The point where this sort of event could have been avoided was back when the thread voted whether or not to join an Expedition that rides experimental technology over unreliable roads into Hell's front yard.
 
Personally, some part of me is just horrifyingly relieved that this did not come about due to us rolling a 1 on our Rite of Way spellcasting, and rolling badly on dealing with the miscast. I keep imagining that happening, instead of what actually happened.

Imagine how bad we would have been feeling, in-universe and out-of-universe, if it were our fault/accident. If we had a direct link to it in some way. That would have left us feeling way way worse. So much shame and self-recrimination.
 
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I try to avoid pointless votes, and saying 'hey do you want a 90% chance of ending the quest right now to maybe save a minor character' is about as pointless as it gets. It would just make a bunch of players feel guilty for not taking it, turning a tragic accident into the players' fault for not intervening.

Not everything revolves around the PC. Sometimes tragedy strikes and there's just nothing that can be done. The point where this sort of event could have been avoided was back when the thread voted whether or not to join an Expedition that rides experimental technology over unreliable roads into Hell's front yard.
depends on what abilities mathilde (and the other npcs) has on hand. could have rolled for an interrupt / reaction from other named characters instead of everyone standin' around watching? i'm a bit tired and not entirely sure what mathilde could have done in the moment to try to save anyone without getting herself killed, but if anyone else could, an interrupt roll might have been warranted? idk.
 
Nat 1's be nasty yo.

And I'd be careful about wishing they were less catastrophic, seeing as we've benefited from the enemy rolling them.

Remember that a Nat 1 on enemy Shaman's roll allowed us to un-Waaagh an entire Orc army, turning a hard battle into a rout.
 
For what it's worth: While I'm obviously not happy that this happened, I do like that it could have happened.

Sometimes things do just go wrong, and having the grounding of bad events being possible is what gives meaning to those times when things beyond our control do go our way and help us succeed, instead of it just being plot armour and protagonist bias.
 
depends on what abilities mathilde (and the other npcs) has on hand. could have rolled for an interrupt / reaction from other named characters instead of everyone standin' around watching? i'm a bit tired and not entirely sure what mathilde could have done in the moment to try to save anyone without getting herself killed, but if anyone else could, an interrupt roll might have been warranted? idk.

The Engineer driving it had a roll to try to regain control of the Urmskaladrak before it slid off, but he got an 8 on a d100. Nobody else had a way to prevent a thousand tons of metal from losing a fight with gravity.
 
People aren't used to it given our streak since we left Stirland's employ.

We really have gotten so many clutch rolls when it counts, I was rereading the Battle of the Caldera recently which really just showcased that with the amount of times things broke our way. It can all seem expected that it turned out well when memories dull and only the success remains, but looking at the actual potential results on some of the tables really shows how badly things could have gone.
 
Garlak said:
But yeah, it's totally true that it's not really Mathilde's place or responsibility. And it was expected for people to die during this anyway.
People aren't used to it given our streak since we left Stirland's employ.
Hmm... tons of people died in the reclamation of Karak Eight Peaks? (Also, heck, we totally almost died horribly against Alkharad.) Not to mention the incredibly sudden and out-of-nowhere attack on the Okral boat convoy, just before we left for the expedition.

The only difference here is that we're in a small group than we normally operate in. But then, that same small group of named characters is also one that is going directly into danger; whereas the Karak Eight Peaks councillors are... well, they're a council.

Well, when I put it that way, I guess the difference is that it 'feels like' 'named characters' are dying again. Which is... true, but... Hm.

On the other hand, we also aren't responsible for most people? Even all of the ones that die near us or as ripple-effects? People died in the Expedition, in the Karak Battle Royale, Imperials died storming the Skaven under-cities, Greatswords died defending Roswita while we were traveling right there with her...

Ah. Well... The big difference here is that a roll based around 'Do you manage to save this person's life or not?' came up and we, uh... well, the dice did not come up our way.

That is what can hit hard. The comparable situations were the Okral, which we managed to save a lot of. And the calling for High King Thorgrim's aid, which the dice also ended up being strongly against us, and which made Mathilde go "Shit!" and "I regret causing this resulting complication now."
 
But in the sense of 'Nobody will be able to make steam-wagons quite like these afterwards', yes that's true. Sad but true.

I'm actually still hopeful about this.

Engineering, especially with a project as big as this, isn't runesmithing. For one thing we know for a fact that other engineers helped with this project, I'd bet you they have a general working understanding of how to build these things, and a lot of these engineers stayed in the Hold.

Secondly, again, these are massive super tanks the size of boats if I recall right. There are almost definitely blueprints somewhere.

The knowledge of how to build more of these isn't lost if the Dawi don't want it to be, it's more just that it's gonna take longer.

You know, assuming these steam-wagons make it back and prove themselves a worthwhile invention.

..........

I hope. I hope. It's also possible I'm underestimating how much the Dawi are obsessed with intellectual property rights, and so despite the fact that other Dawi definitely know enough to recreate this and probably have blueprints it's unfortunately possible that they might decide that since the creators dead and he hasn't given permission for others to use his design they can't.

Hope that's not the case.
 
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It's probably the denial speaking, but I really think Gotrek survived that fall. Maybe barely, after falling down the longest flight of stairs this side of the chaos wastes.

And now I imagine him being woken up, with a shiny axe on hand, by Grombrindal telling him "Wake the fuck up beardling. We've got a (chaos dwarf) city to burn." :cool2:
 
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