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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[X] Stand your ground

That is a very good cognitohazerd. The only way to see through it is to A) have strong sensitivity to magic and strong senses of it. And B) an in depth understanding of dwarf culture, language, and mindset. Finding both in the current eta is very rare indeed. Let alone in such a remote part of the world. To bad a grey wizard decided to get adopted by king Belgar.
 
[X] Act normal

Any plan that's predicated on us disrupting a magical ritual fueled by 200 years worth of a Waystone's output and backed by Chaos itself is a bad one. I'd much rather lean on Mathilde's poker face and meet up with our backup rather than provoke a laughably unwinnable fight.

Gap said:
I dont think trying to outsmart chaos is feasible so no act normal. But refuge in audacity doesnt necessarily means to fight with less than optimal force. The mountain is there for 200 yrs, it got plenty of time to prepare, a few more moments shouldn't change much?
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We're not trying to outscheme Tzeentch, we're trying to use Mathilde's renowned poker face long enough to walk home.

Jyn Ryvia said:
guys, I really see 'Act Normal' as the instinctive action, and understand why people would lean to it.

but it does nothing, we know something is in motion, faking ignorance will not slow it down.

if we knew we hand time to get back and plan, then yes, its a good choice.

going slow if we don't know if we have days or minutes is not a good idea.
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If Act Normal were the instinctive option, there wouldn't be so many people picking the most reactionary option on the menu.

The point of Acting Normal isn't to slow things down, it's to not speed things up.

As for not knowing when things'll start, that's the point. If we yell and holler and announce "Hey Chaos Whatcha Doin You Look Pretty Spooky Wanna See My Draghon Pal," we'll know exactly when things'll happen, because they'll happen immediately. Acting Normal gives us a chance of getting behind the actual melee units and steam-wagon fortifications before yelling Come At Me Bro at a mountain, and given how long this plot's been simmering already, I don't think it unlikely that Acting Normal buys us enough time to return to base.
 
Ganurath said:
[X] Act normal

Let's face it, this wouldn't be the first time Mathilde looked nonchalant while screaming internally.
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I mean, that's pretty much official Grey College doctrine.

Jyn Ryvia said:
hyperbole, but the point still stands.

we don't actually know if we have the time to act normal and go slow.
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We don't. But as long as we've got at least an hour or so we've got time to get back to the expedition and sound the alarm. So the question is, is whatever's going to happen going to happen faster than that?
 
look at it this way.

what are the known and unknown variables?

Known: place (roughly)
who (chaos)

Unknown: Time (or when?)

the unknown is time, so the action that is most variable with time. (act normal) is the action most at risk from enemy choices.
 
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TaliesinSkye said:
I mean, if anyone could outsmart chaos by pretending nothing was amiss it'd be Ranald's favorite. It's probably the plan He would approve of.
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Maybe, maybe not. I dont know how to put it on words but I dont find it much Ranaldite.
I mean a glambing thief is by its very nature and profession a risk taker, so while subtlety is part of his thing it has moments where it doesnt fit. I guess I view Ranald more as an schermer rather than a plotter? Its difficult but I believe a more Ranaldite reaction would be to stand ground, cause it would highlight taking opportunities and gambling it. Even if its not what I voted for.
 
CornyBones said:
"The Dwarves summon an Elven Dragon Rider" isnt a contingency that gets planned for.

Better yet, its another unique Mathy based solution, wholly grounded in her unique set of skills.

Skills which now make her a nightmare for people like this.
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If they were planning on attacking the expedition, they probably scouted well enough to see the dragon. He's rather hard to miss.

As for summoning the dragon rider, what does that actually get us? We bring Asranil here and do... what exactly? We have no way of reaching the magic concentration as it is deep underground* and any watching opponent likely knows that too. Why would they show their hand on something like this? Unless our opponent makes a mistake and decides to strike early we cannot actually do anything about this situation right now, so it shows our hand for likely no gain.

* though if we ever do get a means we're probably the best person to deal with it, given Kragg's anti-Dhar belt means we can probably ignore the instant-mutation radius around the corrupted waystone.
 
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Dutchman said:
[X] Stand your ground
Let's poke the mystery mountain with a rather pointy stick
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Stand your ground isn't a poking action.
BoneyM said:
Reactively. 'Poke it and see what happens' isn't on the list of options, but you can write it in if you like.
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kfrar said:
The point of Acting Normal isn't to slow things down, it's to not speed things up.

As for not knowing when things'll start, that's the point. If we yell and holler and announce "Hey Chaos Whatcha Doin You Look Pretty Spooky Wanna See My Draghon Pal," we'll know exactly when things'll happen, because they'll happen immediately. Acting Normal gives us a chance of getting behind the actual melee units and steam-wagon fortifications before yelling Come At Me Bro at a mountain, and given how long this plot's been simmering already, I don't think it unlikely that Acting Normal buys us enough time to return to base.
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I agree with this in every particular.
 
picklepikkl said:
[X] Act normal

I agree that "run like hell" is the worst of both worlds: it goes loud but not in a way that's super defensible. But I don't see what Stand Your Ground actually accomplishes: we have no means to do anything, and I don't want to risk something bad happening to the caravan while we call all the muscle to our position.
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Run like hell does have one benefit in minimizing exposure to the cognitohazard.

I'll hold off on voting until there are more solid arguments for each choice.
 
Honestly, we don't know that something is in the motion right now. True, we have a fuckton of magical energy being used by a most probably chaos sorcerer right now, but that has been going non-stop for the last couple of centuries and I see no signs of that hypothetical chaos sorcerer being aware that his cover is blown.

Yes, the expedition might be a tempting target. But only might, as he may still decide it's not worth risking his cover blown. I really think that both other options are results of Mathilde's quite understandable IC panic, and while strategically the revelation is a big fucking deal, operationally it's probably a nothingburger.

Unless, of couse, the sorcerer realises his cover is blown. That it probably hell on earth. While I personally don't think he is closly monitoring us right at this moment, its better not to risk it.

[x] Act normal
 
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Might be premature, but the implications of Teclis not catching this have serious political consequences. Teclis is, as far as we and Dwarfkind are aware, the most powerful wizard in the world. We happen to have top-tier windsight, and Teclis isn't immune to low rolls, but if you're a Dwarf, noted haters of elves, what are you more likely to conclude: that the greatest known spellcaster was outdone by a 35-year old student of a tradition he founded, or that the treacherous fucking elgi lied about not finding anything?
 
JamesShazbond said:
Might be premature, but the implications of Teclis not catching this have serious political consequences. Teclis is, as far as we and Dwarfkind are aware, the most powerful wizard in the world. We happen to have top-tier windsight, and Teclis isn't immune to low rolls, but if you're a Dwarf, noted haters of elves, what are you more likely to conclude: that the greatest known spellcaster was outdone by a 35-year old student of a tradition he founded, or that the treacherous fucking elgi lied about not finding anything?
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Well, that, or a dawongr zhuforkrul is inherently more skilled than an elgi, as expected :V
 
Boney updated the action descriptions in response to my earlier question, by the way.
BoneyM said:
[ ] Act normal
- There might be unfriendly eyes on you. Pretend you didn't see anything and return to the Expedition as normal, and decide what to do from there.
[ ] Run like hell
- Every second could count. Return to the Expedition as fast as magic will allow and raise the alarm.
[ ] Stand your ground
- Snorri has a horn, you have Illusion to make the same sound except louder. Asarnil can be here within a couple of minutes, and the Knights soon after that. Stand your ground and if it does anything, you might be able to disrupt it.
[ ] Other (write in)
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vs previously
- Snorri has a horn, you have Illusion to make the same sound except louder. Asarnil can be here within a couple of minutes, and the Knights soon after that. Stand your ground and see if you can disrupt anything that might happen.
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That might not change your answer, but I mention it for completeness' sake.
 
JamesShazbond said:
Might be premature, but the implications of Teclis not catching this have serious political consequences. Teclis is, as far as we and Dwarfkind are aware, the most powerful wizard in the world. We happen to have top-tier windsight, and Teclis isn't immune to low rolls, but if you're a Dwarf, noted haters of elves, what are you more likely to conclude: that the greatest known spellcaster was outdone by a 35-year old student of a tradition he founded, or that the treacherous fucking elgi lied about not finding anything?
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Not really you apparently need a knowledge of dwarf society that Telic would not have. Also Mathilde is wel Mathilde. A magister that has fever deep into the grey. Which may be used to make this happen.
 
kfrar said:
As for not knowing when things'll start, that's the point. If we yell and holler and announce "Hey Chaos Whatcha Doin You Look Pretty Spooky Wanna See My Draghon Pal," we'll know exactly when things'll happen, because they'll happen immediately. Acting Normal gives us a chance of getting behind the actual melee units and steam-wagon fortifications before yelling Come At Me Bro at a mountain, and given how long this plot's been simmering already, I don't think it unlikely that Acting Normal buys us enough time to return to base.
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[X] Act normal

You had me at the image of yelling Come At Me Bro at a mountain.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
the unknown is time, so the action that is most variable with time. (act normal) is the action most at risk from enemy choices.
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Disrupting an enemy's plan in a way that makes them choose to murder you is risky. Knowing when they're going to do it doesn't make it less risky unless you've got a realistic chance of stopping them.

And we, quite simply, do not.

Also, just throwing this out there - if we make it back to the expedition, and things do set off, then this Chaos nonsense is suddenly the Ancient Widow's problem, too. That sounds a-ok to me.
 
JamesShazbond said:
Might be premature, but the implications of Teclis not catching this have serious political consequences. Teclis is, as far as we and Dwarfkind are aware, the most powerful wizard in the world. We happen to have top-tier windsight, and Teclis isn't immune to low rolls, but if you're a Dwarf, noted haters of elves, what are you more likely to conclude: that the greatest known spellcaster was outdone by a 35-year old student of a tradition he founded, or that the treacherous fucking elgi lied about not finding anything?
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There is also, as Mathilde noted, the difference in circumstances. Certainly Teclis has better Windsight—although the cognitions are night suggest that it's not so much how well they could see, but how good their mental defenses were and I'm not sure if Teclis would be better there—but in any case Taclis took a look when the place was covered in chaos and magic to an extreme degree. It would be like blaming a guy for not seeing the penny at the bottom of a heavily polluted pool, when someone else noticed after it had been cleaned.

Also our knowledge of dwarf society played a part. I doubt Teclis has that, but we would mention it in any possible report.
 
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