RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

soulcake · Apr 21, 2020

A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)

justlove · Mar 17, 2020

Mopman43 said:
...Where did you get any of that?

The Polar Gates are down and the Great Vortex isn't up yet. Chaos will never be stronger than right now.

At least, I'm pretty sure the Vortex isn't up yet, given the Dwarfs and Elves have not yet met.

As for your first question, I got most of what I am saying about Warpstone from the link provided. Which says warpstone is the material the polar gate was made of and is not inherently evil it just absorbs magic and mashes it together randomly. My comments on Nagash come from his book where he actually eats the stuff and becomes a lich not a Chaos spawn. While the canon of that is doubtful what is not in doubt is that he built his great pyramid because the winds of magic were weaker in his home and he had to attract them. The rest of course is theorising but that is part of the fun of quests like this.

As for the second comment, this is a very long term project something to think about in the far future.

Mopman43 · Mar 17, 2020

justlove said:
As for the second comment, has that been established yet I don't think it has been said that chaos has come yet.

One of the possible backgrounds was about fighting an army of Slaaneshi demons.

justlove said:
Which says warpstone is the material the polar gate was made of and is not inherently evil it just absorbs magic and mashes it together randomly.

It says that's the in-universe Elven perspective. Not that it's objectively right. Note the word "theorize".

Given that the entirety of Morrslieb is made of Warpstone, it's not just the Polar Gates.

justlove · Mar 17, 2020

Mopman43 said:
One of the possible backgrounds was about fighting an army of Slaaneshi demons.

Thank you but I already changed my statement after checking the timelines on the wiki and realising chaos must have already arrived. Really shouldn't have had to though, need to remember to check my sources before posting to avoid stuff like this.

Also I mean that Warpstone can clearly be put to benevolent purposes and the Polar Gates just the best example. The dagger that "killed" Nagash is another but I left that out due to it being even more lethal to wield than a sword of uranium. While it is an Elven perspective they are some of the foremost magic experts that are not insane and are willing to study the substance so I think their opinion is solid enough to use as a source.

NSMS · Mar 17, 2020

Trying to use warpstone for benevolent purposes is like trying to harness the power of hyper-uranium if it was drunk, disorderly, and not only actively hated you but also everyone that even vaguely resembles you. It's technically possible, but the attempt is far more likely to kill you and a huge number of innocent people... if you're lucky.

justlove · Mar 17, 2020

NSMS said:
Trying to use warpstone for benevolent purposes is like trying to harness the power of hyper-uranium if it was drunk, disorderly, and not only actively hated you but also everyone that even vaguely resembles you. It's technically possible, but the attempt is far more likely to kill you and a huge number of innocent people... if you're lucky.

While the only ones to truly succeeded were the Old Ones who are basically the gods of the gods that does rather stack the odds against us doesn't it. However, their success is proof of concept. But yes I do agree it will be ludicrously difficult and dangerous our point of disagreement is that I think it will be worth it in the end.

CelestialJade · Mar 17, 2020

justlove said:
I'm not so sure about that, what you say is definitely true about a single item and about forging them close together. But If these items were forged far apart and then brought together there should be no problem. After all if there was then Dwarven lords would be unable to fight together without their runes exploding and anvils of doom would not work.

What?

Rules of the Runes

Rule of Three - No single item can have more than three runes. It is virtually impossible to forge items able to bear the strain of carrying so much power.
Rule of Form - Weapon runes can only be inscribed on weapons, armour runes can only be inscribed on armour, banner runes can only be inscribed on standards, engineering runes can only be inscribed on war machines, and talismanic runes can only be inscribed on talismans.
Rule of Pride - No more than one item may carry the same combination of runes. This restriction also applies to the use of single runes. Creating runic items takes a great deal of effort, and Runesmiths don't like repeating themselves. Nor do they copy other Runesmiths' work, except during their apprenticeship.
No master rune may be used more than once per army, and no more than one master rune can be inscribed on an item. Master runes are so powerful that they cannot be combined together on the same item or used together on the same battlefield. For this reason, Runesmiths describe these runes as Jealous Runes.

-Source Rune Magic

I was on mobile, and I most likely failed to properly express my intent, but I don't believe I mentioned forging runes together. I was referencing jealous runes, and that Master runes can only be used once per army. Which I think means you can have more then one item with a master rune in a army, but only one such rune can be used in a battle, or a certain period of time.

Mopman43 · Mar 17, 2020

justlove said:
While the only ones to truly succeeded were the Old Ones who are basically the gods of the gods that does rather stack the odds against us doesn't it. However, their success is proof of concept. But yes I do agree it will be ludicrously difficult and dangerous our point of disagreement is that I think it will be worth it in the end.

See my response above that I edited. The Old Ones using it is an Elven theory. It is not necessarily true.

NSMS · Mar 17, 2020

justlove said:
While the only ones to truly succeeded were the Old Ones who are basically the gods of the gods that does rather stack the odds against us doesn't it. However, their success is proof of concept. But yes I do agree it will be ludicrously difficult and dangerous our point of disagreement is that I think it will be worth it in the end.

Nobody sane touches warpstone, and it's for very good reasons. Okay, so maybe- emphasis on maybe- there are hyper-powerful godlike entities that can make use of it safely. That doesn't make it any safer or better for regular vanilla mortals to mess with the stuff, any more than humans being able to build nuclear reactors means ants should start trying to do the same.

justlove · Mar 17, 2020

CelestialJade said:
What?

Rules of the Runes

Rule of Three - No single item can have more than three runes. It is virtually impossible to forge items able to bear the strain of carrying so much power.

Rule of Form - Weapon runes can only be inscribed on weapons, armour runes can only be inscribed on armour, banner runes can only be inscribed on standards, engineering runes can only be inscribed on war machines, and talismanic runes can only be inscribed on talismans.

Rule of Pride - No more than one item may carry the same combination of runes. This restriction also applies to the use of single runes. Creating runic items takes a great deal of effort, and Runesmiths don't like repeating themselves. Nor do they copy other Runesmiths' work, except during their apprenticeship.

No master rune may be used more than once per army, and no more than one master rune can be inscribed on an item. Master runes are so powerful that they cannot be combined together on the same item or used together on the same battlefield. For this reason, Runesmiths describe these runes as Jealous Runes.

-Source Rune Magic

I was on mobile, and I most likely failed to properly express my intent, but I don't believe I mentioned forging runes together. I was referencing jealous runes, and that Master runes can only be used once per army. Which I think means you can have more then one item with a master rune in a army, but only one such rune can be used in a battle, or a certain period of time.

Sorry I am very bad at expressing myself in writing as shown by my original post and response. In my original post I meant that the parts of this hypnotical workshop would be separated by time and distance when working and would only come into proximity when inactive which is where my confusion came from. I thought you meant that they were in danger of becoming unstable simply from being near each other when inactive not when in use.

When in use, yes we would have to be very careful and do a great deal of research before hand.

justlove · Mar 17, 2020

NSMS said:
Nobody sane touches warpstone, and it's for very good reasons. Okay, so maybe- emphasis on maybe- there are hyper-powerful godlike entities that can make use of it safely. That doesn't make it any safer or better for regular vanilla mortals to mess with the stuff, any more than humans being able to build nuclear reactors means ants should start trying to do the same.

Well I can't deny you are right there. Then perhaps what we should focus on is not harnessing it but trans mutating it. It may be possible to turn it into a safer and more stable form through runic work, forging and later elven help. Though that is in the far future and the we are getting into hypotheticals that could go on forever. We'll just have to follow the quest and see if it comes up and burn that bridge when we come to it.

CelestialJade · Mar 17, 2020

justlove said:
Sorry I am very bad at expressing myself in writing as shown by my original post and response. I meant that the parts of this hypnotical workshop would separated by time and distance when working and would only come into proximity when inactive which is where my confusion came from. I thought you meant that they were in danger of becoming unstable simply from being near each other when inactive not when in use.

When in use, yes we would have to be very careful and do a great deal of research before hand.

I also have troubles expressing my idea's and thought's, don't worry about it.

soulcake · Mar 17, 2020

CelestialJade said:
I was on mobile, and I most likely failed to properly express my intent, but I don't believe I mentioned forging runes together. I was referencing jealous runes, and that Master runes can only be used once per army. Which I think means you can have more then one item with a master rune in a army, but only one such rune can be used in a battle, or a certain period of time.

For the sake of our sanities, the rule of Master runes is applied only to items. So you can have multiple master runes on your person but just not together on the same thing. I'm pretty sure the one master rune on the battlefield rule is more for the sake of game balance more than anything else.

Before anyone thinks about spamming master rune buffs on your allies, I've worked to ensure the creation of master runes is too laborious to spam and your ability/IC willingness to give an item with a master rune on it to someone is limited.

Maybe some very exceptional thanes, more likely they'll be kings, master artisans, guild masters, and very close acquaintances.

CelestialJade · Mar 17, 2020

soulcake said:
For the sake of our sanities, the rule of Master runes is applied only to items. So you can have multiple master runes on your person but just not together on the same thing. I'm pretty sure the one master rune on the battlefield rule is more for the sake of game balance more than anything else.

Before anyone thinks about spamming master rune buffs on your allies, I've worked to ensure the creation of master runes is too laborious to spam and your ability/IC willingness to give an item with a master rune on it to someone is limited.

Maybe some very exceptional thanes, more likely they'll be kings, master artisans, guild masters, and very close acquaintances.

At somepoint, we are building a sleigh, and delivering a handful of runic axes to throngs in need. You know it, I know it, Jesus knows it.

justlove · Mar 17, 2020

soulcake said:
For the sake of our sanities, the rule of Master runes is applied only to items. So you can have multiple master runes on your person but just not together on the same thing. I'm pretty sure the one master rune on the battlefield rule is more for the sake of game balance more than anything else.

Before anyone thinks about spamming master rune buffs on your allies, I've worked to ensure the creation of master runes is too laborious to spam and your ability/IC willingness to give an item with a master rune on it to someone is limited.

Maybe some very exceptional thanes, more likely they'll be kings, master artisans, guild masters, and very close acquaintances.

Thank you for saving us from ourselves. That could have spiralled out of control.

justlove · Mar 17, 2020

Mopman43 said:
One of the possible backgrounds was about fighting an army of Slaaneshi demons.

It says that's the in-universe Elven perspective. Not that it's objectively right. Note the word "theorize".

Given that the entirety of Morrslieb is made of Warpstone, it's not just the Polar Gates.

Your right on it being just a theory but it is a theory by the greatest magic experts to study warpstone who are not insane. That does count for something. The fact that they can study it and learn from it without being corrupted is in and of itself a good sign for possible study in the future.

NibblyGribbly · Mar 17, 2020

[X]Number: 2.
[X]Apprentice: Yokin Cobalteyes
[X]Apprentice: Fjolla Stokkisdottir

I am enjoying all the discussion about rune rules, but I think we may be looking at it a bit narrowly. The dwarf golden age may have drastically different standards for their runes and how they are used due to an un-eroded knowledge base and mad living Ancestor cheats/hacks. Really looking Ng forward to seeing where this goes.
Edit: took so long to type on mobile that it was sorted by the time I had posted, oh well

NSMS · Mar 17, 2020

@justlove, please, please stop double posting.

justlove · Mar 17, 2020

Sorry very new to this sort of thing and I'm being a bit of pain aren't I. What happens is I start writing a post then someone comments on what I have said while I'm writing it and I end up double posting. In future if that happens I'll wait till someone else posts and use the time to think about my response.

@NSMS edit that is a much better idea and I hope I have done this right.

NSMS · Mar 17, 2020

justlove said:
Sorry very new to this sort of thing and I'm being a bit of pain aren't I. What happens is I start writing a post then someone comments on what I have said while I'm writing it and I end up double posting. in future if that happens I'll wait till someone else posts and use the time to think about my response.

You can also just edit replies into your posts. If you quote someone in an edit, it should still ping their alerts.

soulcake said:
For the sake of our sanities, the rule of Master runes is applied only to items. So you can have multiple master runes on your person but just not together on the same thing. I'm pretty sure the one master rune on the battlefield rule is more for the sake of game balance more than anything else.

Before anyone thinks about spamming master rune buffs on your allies, I've worked to ensure the creation of master runes is too laborious to spam and your ability/IC willingness to give an item with a master rune on it to someone is limited.

Maybe some very exceptional thanes, more likely they'll be kings, master artisans, guild masters, and very close acquaintances.

Out of curiosity, how ironclad is the rule of pride? I get that we're obviously never going to be spamming duplicate items, but are there any situations in which we might repeat a creation or rune combo (the two are centuries apart, we're replacing something important, it's literally the best possible objective choice for the task, etc)?

ChiefTurtle117 · Mar 17, 2020

soulcake said:
For the sake of our sanities, the rule of Master runes is applied only to items. So you can have multiple master runes on your person but just not together on the same thing. I'm pretty sure the one master rune on the battlefield rule is more for the sake of game balance more than anything else.

Before anyone thinks about spamming master rune buffs on your allies, I've worked to ensure the creation of master runes is too laborious to spam and your ability/IC willingness to give an item with a master rune on it to someone is limited.

Maybe some very exceptional thanes, more likely they'll be kings, master artisans, guild masters, and very close acquaintances.

I imagine practicalities like the amount of Gromril available to us would matter greatly when it comes to creating Master Runes.

CelestialJade · Mar 17, 2020

justlove said:
Sorry very new to this sort of thing and I'm being a bit of pain aren't I. What happens is I start writing a post then someone comments on what I have said while I'm writing it and I end up double posting. In future if that happens I'll wait till someone else posts and use the time to think about my response.

NSMS said:
You can also just edit replies into your posts. If you quote someone in an edit, it should still ping their alerts.

Out of curiosity, how ironclad is the rule of pride? I get that we're obviously never going to be spamming duplicate items, but are there any situations in which we might repeat a creation or rune combo (the two are centuries apart, we're replacing something important, it's literally the best possible objective choice for the task, etc)?

I believe you can make two of the same rune, just make it differently.
Am i wrong?

NSMS · Mar 17, 2020

CelestialJade said:
I believe you can make two of the same rune, just make it differently.
Am i wrong?

The rule of pride is about not repeating rune combinations, not just single runes. It means that you can't make two weapons or belts or whatever that have identical rune sets, basically.

justlove said:
Sorry very new to this sort of thing and I'm being a bit of pain aren't I. What happens is I start writing a post then someone comments on what I have said while I'm writing it and I end up double posting. In future if that happens I'll wait till someone else posts and use the time to think about my response.

@NSMS edit that is a much better idea and I hope I have done this right.

I did get an alert for this, in case you're wondering.

tri2 · Mar 17, 2020

[X]Number: 2.
[X]Apprentice: Dolgi Embermane
[X]Apprentice: Fjolla Stokkisdottir

so you guys made Santa?

Abhishekam · Mar 17, 2020

soulcake said:
For the sake of our sanities, the rule of Master runes is applied only to items. So you can have multiple master runes on your person but just not together on the same thing. I'm pretty sure the one master rune on the battlefield rule is more for the sake of game balance more than anything else.

Before anyone thinks about spamming master rune buffs on your allies, I've worked to ensure the creation of master runes is too laborious to spam and your ability/IC willingness to give an item with a master rune on it to someone is limited.

Maybe some very exceptional thanes, more likely they'll be kings, master artisans, guild masters, and very close acquaintances.

That's more than fair. Honestly the only one I really want to get in numbers is the Daemon Slaying Rune and that's not a Master Rune so it should be a lot easier. Rune or Daemon Slaying, Rune of Might, Rune of Strinking as a set on weapons. Use that productivity to make them in bulk.

soulcake · Mar 17, 2020

NSMS said:
Out of curiosity, how ironclad is the rule of pride? I get that we're obviously never going to be spamming duplicate items, but are there any situations in which we might repeat a creation or rune combo (the two are centuries apart, we're replacing something important, it's literally the best possible objective choice for the task, etc)?

SOMEONE FINALLY ASKED!

Im in the middle of fluffying the backbone of lore I made to make runelore workable as a mechanic, and that includes runesmith culture and traditions.

As of right now though, just know that for the purposes of this quest, contemporary runesmith culture in the time after the War of Vengeance and Time of Woes is a distortion/different from the runesmith culture of the Golden Age.

Losing a massive amount of your runesmiths and being disconnected from each other does that.

If someone can accurately guess one difference I'll add +5 to a background roll.

RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak

Probably evil, unfortunately.

Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak

Probably evil, unfortunately.

Probably evil, unfortunately.

Probably evil, unfortunately.

The Sigillite

Probably evil, unfortunately.