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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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@Crake so with this latest chapter, and once we deal with the whole Bracken/Blackwood mess, we'll have the Riverlands mostly under our control.

Thus far we've got basically all of Dorne assuming the Martells have been proactive, we've got most of the Riverlands (the Tullys are well and truly cornered with a lot of bad decisions), we've got most of the Stormlands (though if we get Houses Caron and Dondarrion then Stannis' control over the kingdom will be immovable), we've got a good half of the Crownlands (with the rest having unwisely taken Lannister bribes of gold and brides), we outright own the Iron Islands and have both Greyjoy siblings as vassals (though Euron being alive worries me a lot), and we've got some of the North's arguably most important vassals (Umber, Mormont, and Bolton, with a very strong sentiment from Manderly that he does not want to fight us).

We should do a Vale tour next to make sure that fey-touched Arryn kid can't drum up too much support before we depose him and completely dislodge his house. Normally I'd say we should go to the Reach next, but the Tyrell hold over them is so weak that they can probably stay as is for a big longer. Also the important Houses are already ours anyway in that kingdom with the rest being arguably less important.
 
Duesal said:
@Crake so with this latest chapter, and once we deal with the whole Bracken/Blackwood mess, we'll have the Riverlands mostly under our control.

Thus far we've got basically all of Dorne assuming the Martells have been proactive, we've got most of the Riverlands (the Tullys are well and truly cornered with a lot of bad decisions), we've got most of the Stormlands (though if we get Houses Caron and Dondarrion then Stannis' control over the kingdom will be immovable), we've got a good half of the Crownlands (with the rest having unwisely taken Lannister bribes of gold and brides), we outright own the Iron Islands and have both Greyjoy siblings as vassals (though Euron being alive worries me a lot), and we've got some of the North's arguably most important vassals (Umber, Mormont, and Bolton, with a very strong sentiment from Manderly that he does not want to fight us).

We should do a Vale tour next to make sure that fey-touched Arryn kid can't drum up too much support before we depose him and completely dislodge his house. Normally I'd say we should go to the Reach next, but the Tyrell hold over them is so weak that they can probably stay as is for a big longer. Also the important Houses are already ours anyway in that kingdom with the rest being arguably less important.
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The Golden Company will be done soon, then the Deep Ones are on the chopping block. After that, we should be well positioned to carry out the least bloody continental conquest in the history of the human race with the annexation of Westeros into the Imperium.
 
Goldfish said:
The Golden Company will be done soon, then the Deep Ones are on the chopping block. After that, we should be well positioned to carry out the least bloody continental conquest in the history of the human race with the annexation of Westeros into the Imperium.
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I'm looking forward to annihilating them. Fingers crossed for Tiamat sending us as many dragons as possible. A Brainstealer Dragon was nice but I will always appreciate the chance to kill a proper dragon.
 
Duesal said:
What, the Redcap infestation? That seems like something we can leave to baby adventurers. The Misfits would probably shine there. The Companions should be handling high level diplomacy or trying to figure out how to counter Asmodeus.
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Doesnt have to be them, just saying it's one open ended divination to find the baddest unwarded gribly in the Reach or Vale and an afternoon's work to drop its head in Olenas bed. You know some stress relief after we deal with the magic Hatfields and McCoys.

egoo said:
[] The Curse of Brightbarrow: "Brightgallow near Three Towers, the seat of House Costayne in the Reach, is the site of some sort of powerful transformative curse theorized to be caused by wishcraft gone awry. Most of the villagers were put to the sword following instances of banditry and cannibalism, but there is an indication that Garth 'The Gallant', a fey-sworn knight, has preserved the lives of the youngest inhabitants who were them taken to Greyshield in secret. Investigate the site in search of whatever artifact had worked the initial transformation. (Opposition: ??; Rewards: ??)
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This one looks interesting. So do all the minor fey court diplomacy actions. Could be a change. Fits with converting the powers in Westros thing too. We are on a diplomacy run. Pick up a weird artifact on the way and recruit some more local Fey too.

Any turn out to be not so social that's a fun and productive afternoon too.
 
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tarrangar said:
Even if we still want something a bit like the Praetorians, simply because we would rather not have our armies too dominated with beings whose foremost loyal to the old gods, the Symbiote project is likely to be a cheaper alternative, once we have developed them, Symbiotes should only cost their standard CR cost, so using them to get legionaries to the point where they're effective in Planar wars should be a good deal cheaper, and the lower power Symbiotes will be something we can create out of corpses.

A symbiote also have the advantage, that it can be transferred if its wielder wishes to retire.
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I agree that the endpoint of the symbiote research tree would be better than the Praetorians but it would also take way more research actions as we haven't even started on such things yet.

We should either buff Praetorians more to make them worth the time and effort or forgo them, our flesh forge can make things that are fit to lead humans we just have to make a sheet for it. Comparably even if we dont use the fungus forge which would link the creation to the old gods, we can compare it to the flesh forge which just shows how extremely inefficient the Praetorians are.

The current Praetorians are simply not worth the massive research cost and money per unit.


[X] Crake
 
Between the three research branches for improved soldiers that aren't spirits, I can compromise for Dragon Vassals, but that template seems so good that the cost is guaranteed to be personal given the fluff behind it, or still quite expensive.

Can't we just subsidize part of the cost of Praetorians by using corpse HD? A standard Praetorian initiate is CR 6 which is about the ultimate threshold for corpse grown creations, and they are explicitly created using the Forge to both operate upon and create the implants.
 
I'm for the Symbiote one myself if only for the mass production opportunities. But all of them in time I guess. If there is one thing Viserys does and does not have its time.

Lys gets another body next month right?
 
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I've never been a big fan of the Praetorian plan, I'm interested in the Dragon Vassals and like the fluff much better.

Somewhat ironically a version of the Praetorian model is the one that is going to occur by default with people like our Kyton friend operating in the Imperium.

I agree somewhat with @Crake in that we should actively avoid relegation of humans to the bottom rung but disagree with the idea that they should not be lead by non-humans.

Any non-humans that desire to lead rather than are assigned to lead are going to be much better at the job anyway, E.g. our Archon friends.

Let the cream rise to the top but give everyone the opportunity to be the best, I think this is better served with making grafts and symbionts generally affordable rather than templating a particular application driven by the state.

Let people self select themselves as super soldiers while already in our armed forces like the local garrisons in Sothyros are already doing.
 
Dont really think humans not being on top will be as much of a problem as people think. Let's face it for all that the majority are weak they do produce the most high end level characters as a species. If only as a result of not being subject to CR based XP penalties as much.

Short of printing a thousand mind dragons that's not gonna change given a couple decades for the numbers to really get up there.
 
Crake said:
Between the three research branches for improved soldiers that aren't spirits, I can compromise for Dragon Vassals, but that template seems so good that the cost is guaranteed to be personal given the fluff behind it, or still quite expensive.

Can't we just subsidize part of the cost of Praetorians by using corpse HD? A standard Praetorian initiate is CR 6 which is about the ultimate threshold for corpse grown creations, and they are explicitly created using the Forge to both operate upon and create the implants.
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Isn't that mechanic only for the fungus forge? Praetorians can only be made in the flesh forge no?
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Also where is the Dragon Vassals RA? I cant find it. I know you guys talked about it a while back, are these those dragon marks that grant powers to loyal people?
 
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Deliste said:
I've never been a big fan of the Praetorian plan, I'm interested in the Dragon Vassals and like the fluff much better.

Somewhat ironically a version of the Praetorian model is the one that is going to occur by default with people like our Kyton friend operating in the Imperium.

I agree somewhat with @Crake in that we should actively avoid relegation of humans to the bottom rung but disagree with the idea that they should not be lead by non-humans.

Any non-humans that desire to lead rather than are assigned to lead are going to be much better at the job anyway, E.g. our Archon friends.

Let the cream rise to the top but give everyone the opportunity to be the best, I think this is better served with making grafts and symbionts generally affordable rather than templating a particular application driven by the state.

Let people self select themselves as super soldiers while already in our armed forces like the local garrisons in Sothyros are already doing.
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I've got a PM in to DP to get some info on the Dragon Vassal template, specifically how much Research Progress is needed and how much the template will cost to apply to volunteers. The last time this was discussed we were nowhere close to having control of the Flesh Forge in Goggossos so there was nothing but idle speculation, but things have changed and this could now be a viable route to a good Imperial super-soldier program.

It's just a much cleaner, straight forward upgrade package, IMO. It doesn't render the recipient inhuman and it very neatly fits into our theme as the Dragon Sorcerer King.
 
Trek said:
Isn't that mechanic only for the fungus forge? Praetorians can only be made in the flesh forge no?
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Also where is the Dragon Vassals RA? I cant find it. I know you guys talked about it a while back, are these those dragon marks that grant powers to loyal people?
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It's from the Bestiary of Krynn book. I want us to be able to use a version without the creepy surveillance function, though.

Crake said:
There needs to be some serious trade-offs associated with Dragon Vassal.
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Limited numbers created per month would be a good start, like you suggested elsewhere. Viserys' level + Mythic tier seems like a good limit to me.

Requiring all Dragon Vassals to succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 25 maybe?) or fall over dead if Viserys dies would be another acceptable side-effect.

Requiring those who wish to become Dragon Vassals to be at least 5th level or higher makes sense, and having it interfere with a mage's ability to use magic would be acceptable as well.
 
If we go with Dragon Vassals then we should change out the stuff like domniate, symbol of pain, symbol of weakness for useful buffs, its not like we need to ensure the loyalty even more.

Goldfish said:
Requiring those who wish to become Dragon Vassals to be at least 5th level or higher makes sense, and having it interfere with a mage's ability to use magic would be acceptable as well.
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I can get behind the rest of the drawbacks, this not so much, feels like a step too far.
 
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Trek said:
If we go with Dragon Vassals then we should change out the stuff like domniate, symbol of pain, symbol of weakness for useful buffs, its not like we need to ensure the loyalty even more.

I can get behind the rest of the drawbacks, this not so much.
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I want all of that stuff just removed entirely. It's creepy and not something Viserys, Dany, or most of our other associates would approve of. Making it work with buff effects instead would be much too power, IMO.

I don't want it to interfere with spellcasting, but it's a limitation I could accept without issue if DP rules that way.
 
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