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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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All right, you know what, fuck it. Just edited my vote to Fields of Gold. There you go, that evens up between the two plans.

Though if differently named plans that still identify the same wizards are counted together, I'm not sure who wins.
 
No fundamental changes in trait standings or torq situation.

Parity between MaxPan and MaxJo if we use only the most popular plans, and "fuck you, I am not going to parse this mess" if we use the alternate names as well.
Adhoc vote count started by ichypa on Oct 4, 2019 at 2:54 PM, finished with 1178 posts and 256 votes.
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TotallyNotEvil said:
@BoneyM if we go with two minions for now, and see it's working out very well for us, would it be too hard to hire more?
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It's already in the Collection of Important information.
BoneyM said:
  • Getting a Perpetual Apprentice to serve as assistant/general minion
You can put the offer out, but it's up to the individual PAs whether they take the offer. Two favours a year would be standard for those in a more convenient location, four would probably get you someone.
  • Getting a Journeyman/Magister/Lord Magister of a specific College/with a specific spell to come assist with a specific question/project/calamity
2/5/10 per six months. This is assuming they have no interest in the topic and will receive none of the credit (or blame) for whatever it is you're trying to do.
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Costs College Favour to recruit and keep outside wizards on-hand.
 
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Strange9 said:
Worth noting, though, that this post has waaaay more likes than the generic 'screw johann/roswita' ones. I think it's largely a vocal minority thing? It's not as though the thread has ever actually voted to screw over roswita, for instance.
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Haven't we?
The EIC already effectively controls the economy of a province. Now there are plans that we take more direct control over the thing to push it to K8P as well, to become a major trading power in both goods and information there as well.
More importantly, EIC is a major economic powerhouse with existing operative leadership who care nothing about fleecing an elector countess for all she is worth while she is busy stamping on threats against the good citizens of the Empire.

And here we are, voting to further increase EIC's power and reach, with not just the official sanction but explicit leadership of a fucking Magister Grey Wizard who is also a semi-permanent member of the council of advisors to a Dwarven King.

Imagine what happens when Roswita realizes her mistake, plans to do to EIC what we did to the Stirlandian League, and realizes she is fucked when she understand she literally can't without effectively declaring war on one level or another.

That's exactly where we are taking this situation.
 
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[X] Plan Fields of Gold

[X] Take an active hand in the EIC

[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???

[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
 
Strange9 said:
Worth noting, though, that this post has waaaay more likes than the generic 'screw johann/roswita' ones. I think it's largely a vocal minority thing? It's not as though the thread has ever actually voted to screw over roswita, for instance.
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I don't think anyone ever actually planned to screw over Roswita. Rather, they hoped that she would screw up royally and we then got to save her while rubbing in the fact that she could've had all this as a subordinate if she hadn't let us go.
 
SakSak said:
The EIC already effectively controls the economy of a province.
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Not really. They are strongest in Western Stirland, which is both poorer than Southern Stirland, and, depending on where the divide is, somewhere between 1/2 to 2/3 of it is controlled directly by Roswita. If she wants them out, she has the authority.
 
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
[X] Leave the EIC alone
[X] Plan Ambers and a Gold
[X] Return it with your thanks to the Bright College. +2 College Favour.
 
The only problem I have with the 2 wizard plan is that choosing Johann seems much better than Maximilian, especially because then we can keep an eye on him.
 
SakSak said:
Haven't we?
The EIC already effectively controls the economy of a province. Now there are plans that we take more direct control over the thing to push it to K8P as well, to become a major trading power in both goods and information there as well.
More importantly, EIC is a major economic powerhouse with existing operative leadership who care nothing about fleecing an elector countess for all she is worth while she is busy stamping on threats against the good citizens of the Empire.

And here we are, voting to further increase EIC's power and reach, with not just the official sanction but explicit leadership of a fucking Magister Grey Wizard who is also a semi-permanent member of the council of advisors to a Dwarven King.

Imagine what happens when Roswita realizes her mistake, plans to do to EIC what we did to the Stirlandian League, and realizes she is fucked when she understand she literally can't without effectively declaring war on one level or another.

That's exactly where we are taking this situation.
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And then we negotiate with her to make sure her coffers are getting enough for her to do her job effectively and lecture her on the importance of maintaining an eye on the economy. We're not doing this to hurt her, we're doing this to help her.
 
Strange9 said:
Worth noting, though, that this post has waaaay more likes than the generic 'screw johann/roswita' ones. I think it's largely a vocal minority thing? It's not as though the thread has ever actually voted to screw over roswita, for instance.
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My take vis a vis Johann and Roswita is that for me they're not really comparable. Roswita to me codes pretty heavily as a very young girl indoctrinated into a way of thinking which Mathilde wrongfully got the bad end of, but she's a pitiable bigot because it looks like she's either a puppet of the Witch Hunters and the more militant versions of their ideology or cleaves to that militantcy so closely she'd do what they wanted even if they suddenly all disappeared. Which is functionally the same thing for our purposes. She also was only on screen once and so any kind of relationship or interaction never really happened.

Johann by the necessity of the passing of time is a two way relationship where he went in under the radar for whatever reasoning he had, and we never double checked the story he passed because we decided we didn't have time for it. So largely I'm like "dude, why hide it from the Grey?" which means I trust him the least out of the Journeymanlings but I find him an interesting read nonetheless.

Overall I can understand the comparison between them being made if its reduced to just "we don't like them" which is fair and valid, but to me the situation does seem more complicated than a straightforward dislike. Though not by much.
 
Question: has there been any discussion on how we're going to deal with the situation between Maximilian and Johann if we go Fields of Gold? I just remembered Mathilde has Diplomacy 10.
 
[X] Take an active hand in the EIC

[X] Plan Fields of Gold
-[x] Recruit Maximilian
-[X] Recruit Johann


[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.

[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.


[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
 
tryingtobewitty said:
Question: has there been any discussion on how we're going to deal with the situation between Maximilian and Johann if we go Fields of Gold? I just remembered Mathilde has Diplomacy 10.
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We do the same thing we did when we were in charge of them in the Expedition. We assign them different tasks, or different parts of the same task, and just minimize their contact as much as possible. We've handled their apparent animosity well during the three months of the expedition, we can do it as a Court Wizard as well.
 
tryingtobewitty said:
Question: has there been any discussion on how we're going to deal with the situation between Maximilian and Johann if we go Fields of Gold? I just remembered Mathilde has Diplomacy 10.
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There has been some, I'm not voting for any wizard plan to be clear, but the plans that have been voiced seem to revolve around either sending him away for his "exams" so he can come back a magister or leaving him be or trying to talk to him to set the record straight between us. And probably a few others.

E: Oh sorry, misread your post. No I can't really think of any beside Thor's suggestion.
 
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BoneyM said:
"Do tell Magister Johann to stop playing silly buggers. He can poke at the ratties if he really must, but it's unseemly to play pretend with our allies."
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Is the quote from the bursar. Seems to me that him letting Belegar know that he's been a magister all along is the intent here, not further silly buggers with him "going away to sit his magister exam." Him not getting thrown out is going to require a proper apology with us vouching for him and and assurances that we'll have oversight. In other words we recruit him. If we get him thrown out we're not just losing the services of a magister but a magister with skaven related expertise, trusted to "poke the ratties" by the colleges.

If we let things continue we're defying the college and being complicit in the deception which would fuck us over with the Dawi when they found out.
 
tryingtobewitty said:
has there been any discussion on how we're going to deal with the situation between Maximilian and Johann if we go Fields of Gold?
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"Try not to have them in the same room at the same time," I believe.

Don't think anyone's come up with any plan for making them make up, though there might be a few out there who are hoping the feud is a fraud to help Johann stay under the radar.
 
Maximilian also comes with a nice bit of leverage. His whole goal is a dwarven education in craftsmanship, something that will take many years. If a member of the King's Council says, "This guy is working for me, which means he's working for K8P," then an education will be much easier to arrange. And if he fucks up, we have the juice to make him gone.

Johann, well... There are Skaven everywhere, you know? K8P is a convenient place for him, but he can go elsewhere.

tryingtobewitty said:
Question: has there been any discussion on how we're going to deal with the situation between Maximilian and Johann if we go Fields of Gold? I just remembered Mathilde has Diplomacy 10.
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The "situation" is that Maximilian is mad at Johann, and as I point out above we have plenty of leverage to make Max play nice.
 
Briefvoice said:
Maximilian also comes with a nice bit of leverage. His whole goal is a dwarven education in craftsmanship, something that will take many years. If a member of the King's Council says, "This guy is working for me, which means he's working for K8P," then an education will be much easier to arrange. And if he fucks up, we have the juice to make him gone.
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He has an education arranged. One of the Angrund Dwarfs is teaching him blacksmithing.
 
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