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Looking at those dwarf runes, I am really surprised that Mathilde would be stuck using flint and lamp oil and such to start fires if she went on an arson spree. A rune of fire costs a measly 10 points and gives flaming attacks, so the dwarves are all but certain to be able to lend her a hammer or something that she can use to just smack things and light them up. Efficiency!
Narrative =/= Wargame
The only rune of fire weapon we've seen onscreen on the campaign so far is Kragg's hammer. Somehow I doubt he's up for loaning it.

Now the Rune Warriors probably have SOME, but again, ancestral relics, and of course, flaming weapons are rather difficult to sneak with.
We have a location here where Ranald, the god himself, won a divine victory over Mork. That's a holy site without even needing to squint. Like the rest of Karag Nar, it is currently being cleaned of orc corpses and is still unclaimed, its future purpose uncertain; Mathilde could easily get it marked out for a use she desires. This is a huge religious opportunity for anyone who respects and cares about sacred sites, which is most people in Warhammer as I understand it.
Gotta burst this particular bubble. The Greenskins used a temple inside the Hold itself and we know they prefer desecrating conquered holy sites for their temples. It is very very unlikely for them to allow us to use the place for a temple to a manling god, even if they wouldn't object to us building one on the unimportant surface.
 
Enchanting our current sword is also eh in my mind since it runs into the issue that that might be trading improved killiness for magical oomf. Which, to be fair if we get a new dwarven gromril greatsword, this is less of a problem but does trade out for the fact there is no practical way to carry two greatswords since you usually go into battle with them unsheathed and carry them on your shoulder given they were so large you couldn't draw them from a waist or back sheathe with anything resembling speed. So it is also largely, impractical.
Boney said Witcher-style double swords fall under Rule of Cool and is thus, not a problem.

Even if he did question why we wouldn't simply use a staff for casting, as we'd have a much killier sword anyway.

The problem is that the standard +1 magic staff enchant takes someone roughly staff sized, thus the suggestion of making an enchanted greatsword. Might as well have it be useful if we are carrying it around and all that.
 
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@BungieONI

I like your idea of a "dagger as casting implement" a lot - it's a very practical and thematic way to solve our problems.

That said, as I understand it the +1 Magic enchantment currently requires quite a bit of space to work with - a staff or something of equivalent size, which is why people brought up our greatsword as an alternative.

I'd be all for studying the enchantment and trying to condense it, though - our earlier and bulkier attempts while we're learning the enchantment should easily go for several college favours, so we'd still get a material benefit out of it, even.
 
@BungieONI

I like your idea of a "dagger as casting implement" a lot - it's a very practical and thematic way to solve our problems.

That said, as I understand it the +1 Magic enchantment currently requires quite a bit of space to work with - a staff or something of equivalent size, which is why people brought up our greatsword as an alternative.

I'd be all for studying the enchantment and trying to condense it, though - our earlier and bulkier attempts while we're learning the enchantment should easily go for several college favours, so we'd still get a material benefit out of it, even.
Based on the statement we were told by the Grey Order Patriarch, it's not just a matter of no one wanting to make staffs, it requires natural aptitude, perhaps something we don't have.
 
Looking at those dwarf runes, I am really surprised that Mathilde would be stuck using flint and lamp oil and such to start fires if she went on an arson spree. A rune of fire costs a measly 10 points and gives flaming attacks, so the dwarves are all but certain to be able to lend her a hammer or something that she can use to just smack things and light them up. Efficiency!


On more religious matters, a Karak Eight Peaks temple to Ranald would be a solid investment if any significant number of humans will be staying here for a bunch of reasons:
  • We have a location here where Ranald, the god himself, won a divine victory over Mork. That's a holy site without even needing to squint. Like the rest of Karag Nar, it is currently being cleaned of orc corpses and is still unclaimed, its future purpose uncertain; Mathilde could easily get it marked out for a use she desires. This is a huge religious opportunity for anyone who respects and cares about sacred sites, which is most people in Warhammer as I understand it.
  • There are no formal temples to human gods here whatsoever. This means that anyone setting up the first temples is likely to have a proportionately higher influence over the religion of the populace at large. This is also an argument for a Shallyan temple. Anything to avoid Sigmar, really.
  • Belegar and the dwarves as a whole have no idea who Ranald is or what he does aside from what Mathilde has told them. In many places he's a thief-god; in Marienburg he's a money-god; we could quite possibly make him a human ranger-god in Karak Eight Peaks just like Belegar's interpretation of him went if we have a strong hand in establishing local doctrine. We can get him publicly approved by the authorities, at any rate, which is rare.
  • If we build a temple Ranald will probably send by a priest for it at some point in the next couple years, and we could use another priest-friend.
  • Temples to Ranald do not need to be lavish, and generally serve practical purposes instead of being purely religious locations. This means that "tavern", "casino", or "soup kitchen" are all valid interpretations and we can design it to meet the anticipated needs of the people here and appeal to them.
  • As Ranald approves of charity, supporting his cult more prominently in a place it doesn't exist is essentially putting money toward establishing a charitable organization instead of simple donations. Lasting infrastructure has a lot of value in seeing that your goal is accomplished not merely today or tomorrow but for decades to come.
Hmm, this actually sold me that setting up a temple here may be a worthwhile way to spend some time.
 
To make a temporary Rune of Fire (that is, a Rune of Fire that only burns for 1 minute once activated), it takes 2d10+100+1d10 minutes (aka 103-130 minutes) to make assuming the runesmith doesn't fail in any part of the process. Information is from Realms of Sorcery.
 
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@BungieONI

I like your idea of a "dagger as casting implement" a lot - it's a very practical and thematic way to solve our problems.

That said, as I understand it the +1 Magic enchantment currently requires quite a bit of space to work with - a staff or something of equivalent size, which is why people brought up our greatsword as an alternative.

I'd be all for studying the enchantment and trying to condense it, though - our earlier and bulkier attempts while we're learning the enchantment should easily go for several college favours, so we'd still get a material benefit out of it, even.
I'm not sure it actually has to be large rather than a matter of custom...but one part of it is that being able to jam it into the ground to earth the excess power through an expendable stick is WAY better than grounding it through your spine to your feet.

A long enough athame might work.
...after all, Mathilde isn't THAT high off the ground hehehe
 
I mean, if we're going to run a con on nobles, we should probably play to their weaknesses. Nobles, especially in Warhammer, love secret societies. The mysticism and taboo are like catnip for them. Find a bunch of marks, pass yourself off as a different priest or even just be bold as brass with Ranald, and then fleece them for all they're worth while ideally exposing any corruption or loopholes for the Imperial Authorities to deal with.
That's skirting very close to cribbing off the Altdorf cult we dismantled when we killed our target from The List Abe assembled for us, when Regimand destroyed the conspiracy which bound us.
Based on the statement we were told by the Grey Order Patriarch, it's not just a matter of no one wanting to make staffs, it requires natural aptitude, perhaps something we don't have.
We have the aptitude for enchanting, and it's liable that so do a fair few grey wizards, in the grand scheme of things.

What I recall him meaning is that there isn't anyone currently with the appropriate personality where they'd be happy doing nothing but enchanting staves all day long, every day.

Learning how to do it, and spending a few months churning out a batch will likely be worth a fair few favors due that. We can even crib from our ex-Master and insert a blade in them by default, maybe even a slightly magical one (just enough to count as Magical).

It likely counts as a Halberd, so even puny S3 wizards can get a decent S4 hit out of it.
 
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We have the aptitude for enchanting, and it's liable that so do a fair few grey wizards.

What I recall he meaning is that there isn't anyone currently with the appropriate personality where they'd be happy doing nothing but enchanting staves all day long, every day.
We can do enchanting, but I'm not sure whether making staffs is just enchanting, or a different set of skills. But yes, he did actually say no one with aptitude and desire had turned up. (Turned up? Get it? Because the position is called the Turner? I'm hilarious :wink:)
 
There are no formal temples to human gods here whatsoever. This means that anyone setting up the first temples is likely to have a proportionately higher influence over the religion of the populace at large. This is also an argument for a Shallyan temple. Anything to avoid Sigmar, really.

As an additional point, Karag Nar used to be the diplomatic center, specifically for housing non-dwarven guests. It's the mountain in Karag Eight Peaks most suitable to have shrines to human gods.
 
We can do enchanting, but I'm not sure whether making staffs is just enchanting, or a different set of skills. But yes, he did actually say no one with aptitude and desire had turned up. (Turned up? Get it? Because the position is called the Turner? I'm hilarious :wink:)
Huh, I've been reading it as "tuner" all along. Turner makes far more sense, spinning wood to carve it is easy and efficient, and not particularly hard.

You know, we could likely make some very high quality staves if we sub-contracted dorf apprentices to carve the bodies and afix axe blades, if we can make hidden ones.
 
This is cool and wise.

Establishing a Ranaldian temple here that functions as a tavern/waystation/refuge/(gambling den) for any human wanderers, adventurers, merchants and their guards (you know, all people who rely on their luck a lot) who make their way to K8P sounds like a good thing.
I love the idea just on the face of it. But when I think about it deeper I love it even more for a couple of simple reasons.

One, it is a perfect place for a fellowship of disparate adventurers in need of a wizard guide to Dwarven mysteries and the secrets of the Underway to gather which means it can be a source of good and fun for us to do in Mathilde's old age.

Two, its a great place to listen in for interesting rumors and as a meeting point for an intelligence organization.

Three, the fact that it can feasibly be a casion/tavern/and soup kitchen all at the same time pleases my shipping instincts which are aimed at Shallya and Ranald.

@BungieONI

I like your idea of a "dagger as casting implement" a lot - it's a very practical and thematic way to solve our problems.

That said, as I understand it the +1 Magic enchantment currently requires quite a bit of space to work with - a staff or something of equivalent size, which is why people brought up our greatsword as an alternative.

I'd be all for studying the enchantment and trying to condense it, though - our earlier and bulkier attempts while we're learning the enchantment should easily go for several college favours, so we'd still get a material benefit out of it, even.
Which did occur to me as a problem I will admit freely. Like, I thought about it initially and thought about it more and went "Wait a minute. Warhammer has a shitton of 'Evil Sorcerer holds knife over screaming maiden's heart in Evil Ritual' motifs so why exactly can't we do this?"

Boney said Witcher-style double swords fall under Rule of Cool and is thus, not a problem.

Even if he did question why we wouldn't simply use a staff for casting, as we'd have a much killier sword anyway.

The problem is that the standard +1 magic staff enchant takes someone roughly staff sized, thus the suggestion of making an enchanted greatsword. Might as well have it be useful if we are carrying it around and all that.
Even if it isn't, which I'm gonna have to see a quote for I don't want to read it because it is very stupid looking to imagine in my head and thus fails my rule of cool measure. If Mathilde was a 6 and a half foot tall shredded Pale Amazon or some such I'd probably go for it, but when she'd have to carry two swords as big as she is, it just does not work as entertainment for me.

The issue with a staff for me is that if we have to carry on our back for casting, is that not all of our battles will go like the Temple. Many of them will be like the East Gates or the gates of Town Drakenhof, pretty much regardless of our will or not given that our enemies can and will and have surprised us before. If we need to cast using it that means taking a hand at the very least off our greatsword, which means not using it like we were trained by Marcus, and then yanking it off her back. No enemy worth their salt is going to give her time to do that. And as well, the way your framing it basically seems to imply picking one or the other before a battle and then either devoting ourself to casting or devoting ourself to melee. And even inside a battle where we don't get the chance before hand, that's what it encourages.

I don't want to go in this direction because I think its impractical, and breaks the flow of fights if Mathilde needs to break space and whip out a big stick. Furthermore carrying a staff as tall or taller than she is while infiltrating a tomb, mansion or cult lair can be a pain and is not exactly conducive to "I need to quickly hide this thing" situations since its so big. We already have one problem of that with the greatsword. This encourages leaving it elsewhere or, basically taking a cumbersome object into a situation where we need delicacy.

Put together I have a lot of trouble seeing the appeal, with it largely falling to a thought of "Maybe people want it to be more like Gandalf?" which I'm pretty sure isn't correct.

And as you said, I also agree that we need a killing implement and a casting implement, thus my knife suggestion.
 
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I wouldn't be opposed to setting up a temple of some sort to Ranald, just so long as it's not replacing charity. Doing both sounds pretty good to me actually. Should still have a fair bit of money from the gambling after that, and there's still our proper payout from the Expedition to look forward to too.
 
Gotta burst this particular bubble. The Greenskins used a temple inside the Hold itself and we know they prefer desecrating conquered holy sites for their temples. It is very very unlikely for them to allow us to use the place for a temple to a manling god, even if they wouldn't object to us building one on the unimportant surface.
They do like using desecrated holy sites, but I don't think that is the case in this instance. We know that Karag Nar was historically used to host guests and travelers, including some long-term residents. Basically it was the market/trade center, hotel, and diplomatic center of the Karak. That doesn't seem like the sort of place that you're going to have your own gods' critical religious infrastructure, but it might be the place that you let your allies put their religious infrastructure. There was even mention in a recent update that there are plans for moving the expedition's manlings into Karag Nar.

I also skimmed the Karag Nar infiltration and assault updates and couldn't find any mention of Mathilde thinking of what that the greenskin temple was before it became a greenskin temple, but that's hardly definitive evidence of anything.
 
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Huh, I've been reading it as "tuner" all along. Turner makes far more sense, spinning wood to carve it is easy and efficient, and not particularly hard.

You know, we could likely make some very high quality staves if we sub-contracted dorf apprentices to carve the bodies and afix axe blades, if we can make hidden ones.
I got worried, so I went and checked. It is turner phew my obviously fantastic joke still works.

No idea if we can make hidden ones, but sure, I doubt it's the wood carving that's the hard bit. Although, if hidden ones are possible, why does no one seem to have one? You'd think the Grey Order at least would be all over that.
 
@BoneyM maybe I'm mis-remembering but don't the dwarves have air support? And didn't we take the location that gives them the best place to land and take off?

Would it be possible to unleash death from above on the greenskins?

Also, what does Mathilde think of the concept of causing a ruckus on the wrong side of camp for the orks and drawing their attention away from the causeway we want to block them off from?
 
Even if it isn't, which I'm gonna have to see a quote for I don't want to read it because it is very stupid looking to imagine in my head and thus fails my rule of cool measure. If Mathilde was a 6 and a half foot tall shredded Pale Amazon or some such I'd probably go for it, but when she'd have to carry two swords as big as she is, it just does not work as entertainment for me.
She can carry one, given a sword isn't too wide or heavy, so she can easily carry another, but here:
Witcher-style two swording does fall under Rule of Cool, but it does strike me as rather redundant to have a stabby thing that ideally you'd never use for stabbing because it has the casting magics on it instead of the stabby magics.
SV likes to needlessly obssess over trivial things. Honestly, one of the best parts of the quest is the abstraction level.

Otherwise, I generally agree with you that a handier casting implement would be, well handy.

I do disagree that it'd be impossible, or even impratical with the right holsters and a bit of practice, to switch out, especially if wielding similar implements which only differ in their enchantment as it'd essentially be the same movement, every time. But I believe that's besides the point: no spells of ours, of the sort we'd need in the middle of a sword fight, benefit from the extra oomph.

The one spell we could have that benefits from it, besides straight up battle magic, is Shadow Knives. Even then, if we are shooting people with it, we likely aren't in the middle of a sword fight.
 
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Three, the fact that it can feasibly be a casion/tavern/and soup kitchen all at the same time pleases my shipping instincts which are aimed at Shallya and Ranald.
This is both a good and bad idea. With the hobbits in town, we have the perfect people to hire for a casino/tavern/soup kitchen.

Unfortunately, we also have competition. We should make sure we have something that sets us aside from others or somehow make sure the major hobbit facility and ours is one and the same.
 
Hah!

With the truly exorbitant amounts of gold Karag Eight Peaks has recovered, it's almost certainly going to become a hotspot for mercenaries and adventurers. And what classic adventure doesn't start with the party meeting in a tavern, asking the bartender if they've heard any rumors?

We could found that tavern, and if the decorations so happen to have a not-that-subtle cross motif, and if the temple to Shallya happens to just be a few bends further down the corridors, well...
 
@BoneyM maybe I'm mis-remembering but don't the dwarves have air support? And didn't we take the location that gives them the best place to land and take off?
We took the landing zone, but the only gyrocopter on hand is exclusively for bugging out with Kragg's Anvil of Doom if everything goes to shit.

We could probably get gyrocopter reinforcements, but none have arrived yet.
 
No idea if we can make hidden ones, but sure, I doubt it's the wood carving that's the hard bit. Although, if hidden ones are possible, why does no one seem to have one? You'd think the Grey Order at least would be all over that.
I literally said we should steal our master's staff design? His has a hidden blade.

Sub-contracting the actual crafty part of it is just a neat way of saving a whole lot of time we'd otherwise need in learning to carve and tinker to an acceptable degree that the staff isn't shit, or the killy part isn't falling out of it.

That we'd be turning in not only +1 Magic staffs, but ultra high-quality hidden magical halberds instead of your usual "gnarled branch with a skull on top" will only earn us extra favor.

It feels like a dwarfy approach, tbh. "Do it right, or not at all."
 
I literally said we should steal our master's staff design? His has a hidden blade.

Sub-contracting the actual crafty part of it is just a neat way of saving a whole lot of time we'd otherwise need in learning to carve and tinker to an acceptable degree that the staff isn't shit, or the killy part isn't falling out of it.

That we'd be turning in not only +1 Magic staffs, but ultra high-quality hidden magical halberds instead of your usual "gnarled branch with a skull on top" will only earn us extra favor.

It does? Neat. And yeah, although if they think we have the skill and apparently, the desire, the Order might try and pressure us to settle down in the College and make staffs for ages.
 
It does? Neat. And yeah, although if they think we have the skill and apparently, the desire, the Order might try and pressure us to settle down in the College and make staffs for ages.

And thus, providing an IC reason for Mathilde to join up with Asarnil, just so she can tell the college that she won't be free to do long-term enchanting! It's perfect. :V
 
I wouldn't be opposed to setting up a temple of some sort to Ranald, just so long as it's not replacing charity. Doing both sounds pretty good to me actually. Should still have a fair bit of money from the gambling after that, and there's still our proper payout from the Expedition to look forward to too.
I think the point the thread was getting at is that Ranald doesn't have "temples" in the sense of a grand building with a nave and sanctum and altar and all that jazz. Instead what Ranald likes is taverns, gambling dens and soup kitchens other things of that nature with his sign worked subtly into patterns with a hidden shrine tucked away somewhere.

I got worried, so I went and checked. It is turner phew my obviously fantastic joke still works.

No idea if we can make hidden ones, but sure, I doubt it's the wood carving that's the hard bit. Although, if hidden ones are possible, why does no one seem to have one? You'd think the Grey Order at least would be all over that.
Because Mathilde's approach to Wizarding is a bit odd, and most wizards don't leap for swords. Most wizards are not all that keen on getting up in a thing's face with a big sword unless they can pop that thing like a bubble.

She can carry one, given a sword isn't too wide or heavy, so she can easily carry another, but here:
Gonna have to really disagree with you there on the ergonomics of large weapons, but I'll leave it at that since as you say its not as important and I frankly don't want to get into it.

I do disagree that it'd be impossible, or even impratical with the right holsters and a bit of practice, to switch out, especially if wielding similar implements which only differ in their enchantment, but I believe that's besides the point: no spells of ours, of the sort we'd need in the middle of a sword fight, benefit from the extra oomph.
I would figure that Magic Dart, Aetheric Armor, Shadow Knives(as you said), Throttling, and Burning Shadows could all benefit from having a casting booster to hand? All of those I could see having need in a sword fight, particularly Shadow Knives, Dart and Throttling.

We'll absolutely use Shadow Knives as an opening move in a lot of cases, which is I think what you're getting at, but I can see that as a powerful last ditch move for example. And from what I recall we got a pistol, which fulfills a similar niche, because it is easy to conceal and aids in melee(its even put on her sheet like that).
 
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