Guile
Having a really great time right now
I wonder? What seems more Kragg-like, "I said fireproof, and I don't leave a job half-done" or "I said fireproof and that's exactly what you get, no more, no less"?
I could see it going either way.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I could see it going either way.
EFW3
This is Walter Wireless signing off!
- Location
- Charleston
@BoneyM It may have been answered already but I might have missed it and I need to rush to get to class on time. But does the amount of blood in our alcohol system after last nights... events and celebrations, have any impact on our spell casting ability today or was it all for flavor? Because Mathilde seems self-aware enough to realize that reprimanding our Jade undermining for casting while exhausted probably also applies to casting whilst drunk/hungover.
Additionally, if the money from last nights events, isn't already owed to the bursar, they probably already know I mean this is a system that is able to enforce its student loans collection via magic, does it make sense to anybody else to share some of it with Belagar, so that when they are reimbursed later, it looks to everyone, or maybe just the men, that King Belegar, the dawi we all signed up with to right ancient wrongs, came down and interacted with all of us normal people. Look see he, and via proxy other dawi, aren't so different from us after all, and foster closer relations in the long run like that?
Additionally, if the money from last nights events, isn't already owed to the bursar, they probably already know I mean this is a system that is able to enforce its student loans collection via magic, does it make sense to anybody else to share some of it with Belagar, so that when they are reimbursed later, it looks to everyone, or maybe just the men, that King Belegar, the dawi we all signed up with to right ancient wrongs, came down and interacted with all of us normal people. Look see he, and via proxy other dawi, aren't so different from us after all, and foster closer relations in the long run like that?
For people who plan to use fire, answer this. How does Mathilde start the fires?
I've read through the thread up to now and no one has properly addressed the question.
And no, dwarven ale isn't flammable, as if it were that strong, Mathilde would be dead from drinking it. She also has no way of carrying large amounts of it. We don't have access to high density incendiary explosives that we can set to start fires, and also have no timing mechanisms, so as soon as we start the first fire they'll know they're on the clock and start moving before we have time to set more fires. At that point they can just run up the steps to the Citadel, when the entire point of the exercise is to prevent exactly that.
Matches and lighters also probably don't exist. Flintlocks to light fuses do exist, but you then need fuses to light, as they only make sparks.
Also, this isn't a medieval city. They were very flammable because they were made of wood that had been dried out by internal hearing and used wooden roofs and soaked wood in very flammable pitch to stop it rotting. They also ha fires building inside multiple buildings, as as soon buildings started to collapse and people started to panic those fires would themselves go out of control. Grobi-Town is very unlikely to be as easy to burn, as it won't be dry as it won't have waterproof construction and internal stoves.
I've read through the thread up to now and no one has properly addressed the question.
And no, dwarven ale isn't flammable, as if it were that strong, Mathilde would be dead from drinking it. She also has no way of carrying large amounts of it. We don't have access to high density incendiary explosives that we can set to start fires, and also have no timing mechanisms, so as soon as we start the first fire they'll know they're on the clock and start moving before we have time to set more fires. At that point they can just run up the steps to the Citadel, when the entire point of the exercise is to prevent exactly that.
Matches and lighters also probably don't exist. Flintlocks to light fuses do exist, but you then need fuses to light, as they only make sparks.
Also, this isn't a medieval city. They were very flammable because they were made of wood that had been dried out by internal hearing and used wooden roofs and soaked wood in very flammable pitch to stop it rotting. They also ha fires building inside multiple buildings, as as soon buildings started to collapse and people started to panic those fires would themselves go out of control. Grobi-Town is very unlikely to be as easy to burn, as it won't be dry as it won't have waterproof construction and internal stoves.
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Guile
Having a really great time right now
So we'd be clothed in fire? Epic
But wait, what about our hat, this is awful
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
That would just be silly, since that would mean that Mathilde would end up naked whenever the belt does it's thing.
- Location
- not actually Urk, I just liked the alliteration
[ ] Plan be sneaky - at first
- [ ] Mathilde starts a fight between the greenskins on the far side of the caldera - try to make sure it sticks and that other groups are being lured in
- [ ] Rangers and hobbits start fires between the citadel and the hopefully fighting greenskins, and set up the artilery overlooking the entrance
- [ ] Attack the citadel with the mercenaries(faster runners so they'll arrive a little ahead) and dwarves with ranged support to suppress any greenskin archers.
- [ ] Dwarves push the attack further inwards while the cavalry disrupts attempts in the caldera to circumvent the flames
- [ ] Rangers and a reserve to either delay (if the greenskins in the caldera get their act together, muster, and go through the fires) or take over the attack with the resting mercenaries when the attacking force starts to flag.
This is pretty similar to set everything on fire, but I like using the orc's nature against them and having contingencies in place if they get their act together.
I also don't think it's a good idea to set fires too close to the citadel, the army needs room to maneuver.
Fell free to modify it though, or let it be eaten by the pyromaniac's plan.
T'was a sily plan, too many moving parts that could mess it up.
- [ ] Mathilde starts a fight between the greenskins on the far side of the caldera - try to make sure it sticks and that other groups are being lured in
- [ ] Rangers and hobbits start fires between the citadel and the hopefully fighting greenskins, and set up the artilery overlooking the entrance
- [ ] Attack the citadel with the mercenaries(faster runners so they'll arrive a little ahead) and dwarves with ranged support to suppress any greenskin archers.
- [ ] Dwarves push the attack further inwards while the cavalry disrupts attempts in the caldera to circumvent the flames
- [ ] Rangers and a reserve to either delay (if the greenskins in the caldera get their act together, muster, and go through the fires) or take over the attack with the resting mercenaries when the attacking force starts to flag.
This is pretty similar to set everything on fire, but I like using the orc's nature against them and having contingencies in place if they get their act together.
I also don't think it's a good idea to set fires too close to the citadel, the army needs room to maneuver.
Fell free to modify it though, or let it be eaten by the pyromaniac's plan.
T'was a sily plan, too many moving parts that could mess it up.
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Worst case scenario, she'll grab one of the torches undoubtedly in use. It's almost certain this is a problem dwarf engineering can fix, though.
I thought it'd be something like taking some wood from an existing campfire from the greenskins, setting a hut on fire, and letting the nature of a greenskin shantytown without unified leadership do the work for us?
Like, fire is everywhere in this sort of place and fire safety is null. Without a boss to have them work together to put it out, this barely requires our help.
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Wet seasoned wood won't burn just because you throw a torch on it. It will char and then the torch will go out.
You need dry wood to ignite easily, preferably kindling in small pieces. Have you ever tried to ignite a wet log? You need a blow torch and patience or to throw it on an already well established bonfire and even more patience.
It's like forest fires. In order for them to light you need kindling (in the form of dry undergrowth/deadfall) and the trees need to be dried out until the fire is really fierce.
The nature of a goblin shantytown makes it much harder to burn than medieval human human city, because it'll be much wetter and there won't be loads of other flammable fabrics and furnishings around, along with banked stoves/fires inside many buildings.
In this situation, Mathilde needs powerful accelerants like petrol, and plenty of it, more than she can carry, or something like modern incendiary grenades which burn very, very hot in a small package.
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I expect this place to be dry. It's a town. Has it even rained recently? Also, we can probably take advantage of something more flammable if we find it. What do they use in place of straw? This really isn't so hard, human cities have burned down, this a town of greenskins that is currently at war with itself, we can probably get them to help us spread the fire towards their rivals or interfere with their fire-fighting efforts just by planting the idea while in disguise.
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- Location
- Planet Earth
and as far as I'm aware it hasn't rained recently, so the wood won't be terribly wet unless its literally holding standing water, in which case you move to the hovel next to it.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think Plan Burning Shadows's plan to deal with enemy spellcasters by asasinating all of them is incredibly overambitious. Assasinating even one hero unit like a shaman is A Big Deal and not at all something we can be certain of. Both times so far have involved multiple rolls that we managed to succeed at. Plan Burning Shadows dedicates an entire night to our attempted assasination purge, so if we run into trouble we don't have anything planned to fallback on.
Besides, I really dislike a plan that pins everything on Mathilde. She is not the Designated Protagonist and very much can fail quite hard if things go badly. Always fear an over-inflated ego.
[X] Plan Light Everything On Fire And Kill Things
This was our second-most destructive option for taking the town of Drakenhof, short of setting a dragon on it. This time we've got dwarven alchemy to back us up in addition to the halfling's fire arrows and whatever else we can scrounge up. We can do this.
Besides, I really dislike a plan that pins everything on Mathilde. She is not the Designated Protagonist and very much can fail quite hard if things go badly. Always fear an over-inflated ego.
[X] Plan Light Everything On Fire And Kill Things
This was our second-most destructive option for taking the town of Drakenhof, short of setting a dragon on it. This time we've got dwarven alchemy to back us up in addition to the halfling's fire arrows and whatever else we can scrounge up. We can do this.
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
One thing to keep in mind is that since it is a Greenskin settlement it's probably filled with refuse and other things like rotting cloth, various piles of broken wood and more. So there should be a lot of random flamable junk just laying around.
This is pretty interesting, since I'm pretty sure Kragg is a hell lot more valuable than Belegar speaking as a strategic asset.
Granted, people don't tend to think in terms of point costs and value.
Truth. It'd be Brutally Cunning.
Calling in a professional!
A young dwarf, but then the expedition is full of younger dwarfs.
Its all in the framing. Plus Mathilde and the Rangers had done good work these days to save dwarf lives.
The dwarf god way WOULD probably be pulling on their follower.
Probably most human gods too to be fair.
Ranald is special like that.
First thought: "A dwarf greatsword user! Now we can buy the advanced Greatsword class from dwarfs when we go to campaign turns!"
Second thought: "Fire and caves, bringing light into dark places or bringing light FROM the dark places?"
Gatekeeper?
Its a good relief.
You just know the idea would keep Mathilde up late at night otherwise.
That little niggling voice that wonders if it could happen again
Kragg applies his massive Lore stat. Its super effective.
Counter-ritual makes sense. Hmm...I wonder if we took the ritualist training we'd be better able to avoid doing this by accident?
And be better at doing it on purpose I suppose...
We had practice. A Master Wizard is effectively a master of not dying while doing things every day which should normally kill them!
And for all the drama...of course they know. In hindsight, the original batch of Black Orcs are going to be using dwarf made weapons, made to dwarf standards, and sized for orcs.
The orcs might have looted it, but theres nobody of the same build as a Black Orc Warboss armed with dwarf made armor and weapons of the right size for a Warboss that the dwarfs WOULD make equipment for.
Supply may have dwindled since, but the dwarfs would remember dwarf work.
And it turns out it LESSENED the shame. Willfully turning against everything their race stands for is vastly more shameful...but as we learned about Grudges, if a grudge was caused through the misdirection and manipulation of a third party, the third party is the shitlord.
And the misled party still needs redress if they continue to do wrong of course.
We did good!
We didn't plan it, we winged it, and it could have been a hell lot worse if the dice fell the other way, but we did good!
Ranald.txt
And it will be brought to the highest authorities of dwarfkind.
Belegar likely has a hell of a time writing this.
Explaining how he learned would be something like "A trusted manling expert in doing unpredictable ridiculously risky Manling things had her unpredictable, risky and lucky manling god pluck the knowledge from Mork while he was doing stupid and risky greenskin things learned that the Lost made the Black Orcs under the wiles of the Schemer...""
Oh yeah, Halfling army cooks means an army which might have been better fed in the army on campaign than they could get at home.
...probably got some masons to do that construction in their spare time with a bribe of the first meal cooked in that kitchen.
Diplomacy yet remains our weakest skill after all.
The only emotions we can induce on demand, reliably are confusion and terror.
Panoramia takes notes as she observes the halflings' bows and the dwarf axes.
Genius!
The whisk trick that is, not the pie.
The pie is almost an abomination.
Ooo, halfbaked dwarflings!
This one is a Water Park Ride Master.
Going fast is a must!
How much do we know IC about the Norscan dwarfs?
Right and properly done by dwarf standards.
By human standards possibly a mite disturbing.
That a Lord of the Rings reference?
At some point we might want a dwarf terms glossary.
Everyone finds God in foxholes after all.
Mathilde found a readymade audience to convert.
A drunk wizard, a drunk halfling and a drunk dwarf walk into a bar....
...Don't worry, I believe thats a proud representative of Sigmar's favored bird.
Thats a smooth trick.
Everyone's in a cheery mood to be sure!
Thats quite the impressive book club.
United in love for trashy novels across nation and race.
Everything just going perfectly.
@BoneyM
Roasting meet?
Must be pretty drunk to get there!
Inquisitor on cheating patrol with dwarf longbeard enforcers to boot.
That's so deliciously overkill.
...by Ranald we made out like bandits.
The Bursar: "Are you sure she's not a financial wizard?"
So pay off the EIC debt, probably outright commisson a lab in Eight Peaks after cashing in some residential rights, and hmm...
...I reckon we might actually have enough money left over to start some cottage industry on our fief. If you can't farm shit, you can't mine shit, and theres no lumber worth mention, you can MAKE stuff.
Import tools, import trainers, invite in more shrines(Shallyan would go well anywhere) heck, maybe pay to train up some writers to scribe trashy novels for the book club...
- Pronouns
- They/It
I'm inclined to give the Kragg belt the benefit of the doubt, until proven otherwise, re:smoke.
It feels like when one of the examples we got about it is that we could swim through lava, we'd get like a "But don't do that, the toxic fumes and ash going up your sniffer will immediately kill you."
It feels like when one of the examples we got about it is that we could swim through lava, we'd get like a "But don't do that, the toxic fumes and ash going up your sniffer will immediately kill you."
Rotten cloth would tend to put a fire out, not act as fuel, as it will be wet.
What makes you think the place would be dry? It's at the bottom of the caldera with all the runoff from the surrounding mountains pouring into/through it. The place will almost certainly be sodden. The geography basically requires it, as water flows downhill, and the mountains are tall enough to have a year round snowcap.
Based on this, we should expect Grobi-town to be a literal swamp.
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- Location
- somewhere over there.
- Pronouns
- They/It
There's also the question of what their roofs are made of. Thatch? Thin branches woven together to be semi-waterproof? Leather and hide? Slate? Some of the options are pretty flammable, some really aren't.
- Location
- Planet Earth
Which would at worst probably mean the ground is muddy(which I don't recall being stated anywhere), and the lower half of the walls would be rotted, but may or may not be currently wet depending on where exactly in the caldera we're talking about, especially as the primary target for setting on fire is the buildings near the edge of the caldera, thus ones that would not have standing water, just water going past them. Furthermore, the ground probably won't be perfectly flat, high spots will be dryer, and any building more than a couple feet tall will have the upper parts left perfectly dry from said run off. will there be spots too wet to ignite easily, sure. But I highly doubt you'll be unable to find a dry patch of wood, currently burning campfires, and various sorts of tinder to use for starting the blaze, and once you get a house or two going the rotten wood won't much matter as the fire will just keep spreading.
- Location
- United States of America
[x] Plan Light Everything On Fire And Kill Things
The deal-breaker for me regarding the burning shadows plan is the delay in the assault. I think it could be done, especially if we can use Black Lotus to pump up the potency or make it easier to cast on such a large object, but I'm not willing to wait for another day to try and assault the citadel.
I believe that we need to do it now if we want the highest chances of success.
The deal-breaker for me regarding the burning shadows plan is the delay in the assault. I think it could be done, especially if we can use Black Lotus to pump up the potency or make it easier to cast on such a large object, but I'm not willing to wait for another day to try and assault the citadel.
I believe that we need to do it now if we want the highest chances of success.
I think that the problem here is that people are assuming that Greenskin construction will be like medieval human construction in real life where this scenario would be plausible.
Timber framed buildings were incredibly flammable because the seasoned wood they were built with was treated with pitch, they were often very dry thanks to being weather proof and internally heated, and they were full of very flammable fabrics and furnishings. They were also often roofed with flammable pitch coated wooden shingles.
None of that will be true for goblin construction. They will have been built with green wood, probably not in planks but in logs, that have never been dried out and will be either standing in sodden earth or connected to wood standing in sodden earth. They won't be full of flammable objects or have a roof made of flammable shingles, or walls made, basically of kindling (the lathes in plaster and lathe construction) that can catch first and then set the rest of the frame on fire, which will collapse and spread the fire. The lack of flammable contents and roofs also means that the clouds of burning embers that spread the fire will be much reduced.
This will be probably be like Mathilde trying to set a wet forest on fire with matches. It just won't work. She's a shadow mage, not a fire mage.
If it was possible for Grobi-Town to burn as easily as you suggest, it would already be ashes, as Greenskin fights and carelessness will accidentally start many more fires everyday that Mathilde has a hope of starting deliberately.
Doing something that should be lost in the background noise of normal Greenskin stupidity is not the goal this time.
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- Location
- Planet Earth
You know, you have a point and might be right, but there's a simpler way to solve this problem than back and forth arguing. Cause if you're right Alratan, this is information we should have in character, not merely "its probably this or that." The leading plan being impossible due to details that we should know IC is something we should damn well know as voters.
@BoneyM
1) Could you please describe what the greenskin construction is actually like?
2) Could you please tell us if IC Mathilde thinks she could set it on fire
3) Could you please tell us if the Dawi have any incindiaries we could use, or if Mathilde at least thinks they do.
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