Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
No one including the dwarfs has a campaign plan for a few thousand years, a few thousand years ago for instance the dwarfs were struggling to just survive the Time of Woe. We talk about dwarfs like they are they are some unstoppable Juggernaut when this campaign right here is the most notable dwarfish reconquest in centuries.
Observe the retaking of Eight Peaks.
It doesn't matter if its not practical.

If its possible at all they will, in typical dwarf fashion, progress towards that goal generation by generation. That they might not achieve it in a dozen lifetimes doesn't matter.

It sure as hell remains more achievable than greenskin and skaven extermination
 
By the way from the look of the tally there is one vote between telling and not telling right now. If nothing else talking to Kragg the Grim about possession by Greenskin gods and Chaos Dwarfs should make for an... exciting update.
 
Gortek nearly killing Teclis has been brought up repeatedly. And this is under circumstances where the Loremaster would have ben damn useful, Gortek and felix novles are not known for their peaceful fun-loving ambiance.
Isn't Teclis known to be even more rude and condescending than the average elf?

Like, its entirely possible they wanted to deck him with or without the Daw Zharr involved
 
Observe the retaking of Eight Peaks.
It doesn't matter if its not practical.

If its possible at all they will, in typical dwarf fashion, progress towards that goal generation by generation. That they might not achieve it in a dozen lifetimes doesn't matter.

It sure as hell remains more achievable than greenskin and skaven extermination

That is a terrible comparison because taking Eight Peeks is practical, you can tell by who we are actually doing it. Marching into the Dark Lands is suicide only lesser to marching into the Chaos Wastes by the fact that you will probably not have your soul eaten by daemons in the dark lands
 
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Mork is their equivalent of satan

But even saying that will not get across how much hatred revolves around the issue due to cultural desensitization.

And to properly convey it you need to get Godwins law involved here, I'll try to write around that.

The relationship between Gork&Mork and the dwarves is one where Gork&Mork are entities of evil and genocide and the dwarves are the victims of said evil and genocide and the genocide event is still ongoing.

And people want to tell them that we momentarily embodied one of such entities to someone who has witnessed so much of said event and is so bitter about it

All so that you can bring up that their cousins helped in the creation of one of the forces that make up their enemies

Seriously
 
Gortek nearly killing Teclis has been brought up repeatedly. And this is under circumstances where the Loremaster would have ben damn useful, Gortek and felix novles are not known for their peaceful fun-loving ambiance.
I already mentioned that I know nothing about the context, and you are not providing any more. I cannot make judgements on this example without knowing that example.

1) In what context was Teclis bringing up Chaos Dwarfs?
2) What relationship did he have with the dwarfs?
3) Was Teclis just neutrally bringing them up, or berating the dwarfs, or telling them vital information or what?
4) Did the dwarves immediately jump to wanting the kill him? How close did they get to killing him? Did they actually do anything against him?
 
Personally, I'm not that concerned about the Chaos Dwarves.

Yeah, we'll probably get told in no uncertain terms not to spread the information, but I doubt there will be particularly large consequences - for us personally, or for dwarfs as a whole. I'd be surprised if none of the dwarfs knew about this, frankly, so as far as grudges go the ship has already sailed.

I'm more concerned about the "got puppeted by vile enemy gods" thing - that's the sort of thing that gets us sidelined, since it no longer matters how much they trust us, we're compromised either way.
 
A advantage of telling Belegar and Kragg about Ranald will increase their trust in her, decrease any misunderstanding or suspicions Kragg has about Mathilde,


The whole scenario is that Mathilde's activities we're hurting the cult of only Gork, Mork took interest and started to try to use Mathilde as a conduit, so Mathilde did the only sane thing, she prayed to her God for salvation, thus the misunderstanding ends with Kragg, and as a bonus,

Mathilde may get permission or at least some leeway in establishing a area of worship for Ranald, sooner or later, Mathilde has to help Ranald expand as his favored priestess?
 
[X] Remain silent.
[X] Join the hunting with Codrin
[X] 'Make sure the ale hasn't gone bad' with Johann
[X] Telling war stories
[X] Play with a giant wolf
[X] Gambling
[X] Yes to Shenanigans
 
Remember we've already spoken about the idol and Mork taking a hit. We're voting to talk about the possession, the chaos dwarfs and Ranald's awesome heist.

It's a shame the option to talk to Ulthar about this wasn't one of the starting options. We haven't really known Belegar that long and we don't know Kragg at all. However, we've spent quite a bit of time with Ulthar and I think there's quite a bit of trust there. Also as an extremely experienced ranger I bet he's seen some shit. If there's any dwarf we could talk to about this it would be him.
 
... At the moment I am angry with the way many remain silent voters have been arguing. It is actually reaching the point where I want to vote Tell Belegar and Kragg just to spite them, I actually want to vote

[] Tell Belegar.
However, my anger at the remain silent voters is making it harder to read their counter arguments and figure out which ones are actually worthwhile to read making it so I can't trust the arguments. To be clear this is not an issue with the idea of remain silent, this is an issue with the arguments people have used to remain silent and to be more precise the way they have gone about it


To be clear there is supposed to be another line here but I'm not going actually post it


@Katahiraga I'm pretty sure she isn't a priestess, a devotee sure but priestess not really
 
Y'know what, I'm not sure we should care if the Dwarfs might-or-might-not send an expedition somewhere in 300 or 3000 flipping years.

I don't think that's any of our business or our responsibility what they do with that information. They're grown-ass adults, not children, if they want to declare a grudge or plan a campaign, they can decide that without us even taking the choice from them. And if they do or don't, that's their business. If they decide that it's too dangerous and unwieldy to even attempt before they've reclaimed every Karak, well, that's just what they'll do. ... Bluntly put, I don't think it's even something we should care about OOC. I certainly don't -- and just... can't muster up any speck of interest or enthusiasm about the idea.

Now, if we had reason to suspect that they'd drop everything and Leeroy at the newest-revealed problem... or if we were sharing secrets that might cause them to get super-ultra-mad at Ulthuan, then I'd probably care and prefer keeping quiet...

Although (and I've only skimmed a page or two) I hadn't seen the "What if Kragg thinks we're possessed by Mork? Eh? Eh? What then?" idea coming. That was, uh, a thing. I mean, if I were worrying about that, if I thought it a genuine concern, I'd probably want a Dwarf Runelord to look me over just to make sure but hey. =/
 
A advantage of telling Belegar and Kragg about Ranald will increase their trust in her, decrease any misunderstanding or suspicions Kragg has about Mathilde,

Telling dwarves that you are a cultist of the god of thieves (or liars, or revolutionaries, or even gamblers, given their cultural risk aversion) is not an action that should be expected to increase their trust in you. Ranald is pretty much the anti-dwarf.

People are twisting themselves in knots to try to find some upside here.
 
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I'm more concerned about the "got puppeted by vile enemy gods" thing - that's the sort of thing that gets us sidelined, since it no longer matters how much they trust us, we're compromised either way.

We are no more prone to possession them we ever have been. Mork influenced us because we got in the middle of a massive ritual and disrupted it through brutal cunning. It is extramely unlikely to happen again and we were no more likely to suffer it than anyone else would have been.
 
Although (and I've only skimmed a page or two) I hadn't seen the "What if Kragg thinks we're possessed by Mork? Eh? Eh? What then?" idea coming. That was, uh, a thing. I mean, if I were worrying about that, if I thought it a genuine concern, I'd probably want a Dwarf Runelord to look me over just to make sure but hey. =/

How do you think a dwarf runelord might decide was the most expedient way to deal with the problem of a wizard that might e possessed by Moro again based on some unknown trigger?
 
A advantage of telling Belegar and Kragg about Ranald will increase their trust in her, decrease any misunderstanding or suspicions Kragg has about Mathilde,
A disadvantage of telling them about being compromised by Mork and that we worship the God of thieves will remove any existing trust, increasing mistrust regarding her and validate Kraggs suspicions.

See what I did there?
 
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[X] Tell Belegar and Kragg.
[X] 'Make sure the ale hasn't gone bad' with Skaroki
[X] Gambling
[X] Hold a Ranaldan religious service
 
I beg to differ. Mathilde's experience with dwarfs so far suggests strongly that when information like this is offered to responsible leadership, what happens is they set upon a careful and deliberate plan to rip the offending party to shreds, over centuries if necessary.

In the case of Dwarf Chaos Cultists she's likely of the opinion that they SHOULD be ripped to shreds and sees no problem with it. Likewise she already understands it shouldn't be shared to the public, any more than finding chaos cultists in Stirland should be something shared to the council in general.

Mathilde had seen a lot of mature, reasonable if understandably very grumpy dwarfs. And Kragg has been goddamned exemplary in how he conducted himself.
He dislikes modern cannon, but they're in use and he just grumbles about their unreliability.
He dislikes Umgi magic, but he has conducted himself with reasonable courtesy and restraint, handling Mathilde's deeds with sour looks but recognizing she remains a credit to the team.
He hates the Greenskins, so instead of running out there and pasting them with his hammer in fury, he prepares, and stockpiles a massive array of runic weaponry for the day when he might see them DELIVERED.

From every indication, what she expects out of Belegar and Kragg when she tells them about the Dawi Zharr is:
-Plan for an eventual campaign against the Dawi Zharr, which will include scouting, mapping, determining forward bases, and overall a timescale of maybe 4-5 centuries.
-Prepare runes to fuck up heretical dwarf sorceror slavers
-Tell her to keep it secret. As she didn't tell the COUNCIL they can expect a certain degree of sense they would not normally expect of Umgi.
While she has seen a lot of mature reasonable dwarves, she has also seen a whole lot of irrational unreasonable dwarves. At least from her perspective.
A Slayer goes into battle unarmoured - Hell, damn near unclothed - and while this so often leads them to the deaths they seek, it is entirely an advantage against Trolls, with slow reactions and slower minds. Geysers of stomach acid are nimbly sidestepped around and axes bite deep into stomachs to spill out their most disgusting weapon, then ankles until the Troll falls, then spines or throats to finish the beast, and the Slayer moves on to the next. Hundreds of them lose their lives, not because they can't avoid an attack but because they choose instead to drive home a crippling blow moments before their doom reaches them.

To your eyes, this is a tragedy. But to the Dwarves that flank you this is a moment of beauty, as every second a dozen more Slayers find glorious ends and are accepted into the arms of their Ancestors. Tears run freely down faces to soak into beards as Clan Angrund stands witness to redemption.
The Slayer Slaughter was a tragedy for her. Countless dwarves choosing, and wanting, to die rather than deal with whatever shame drove them to become a slayer. And other dwarves saw beauty, they were happy that these dwarves who had shamed themselves had found a death worthy of their shame. And that's irrational. Every dwarf body counts here on this expedition, and choosing to embrace death simply to take one troll out is not something which can be said is rational, not when there will be more trolls, more opponents, and more chances to fight that will cost more dwarven life.

So while many dwarves on this expedition have been reasonable and mature, other dwarves have been unreasonable and irresponsible with their own lives. And the line dividing them is a line of shame. Shame trumps rationality and demands to be satisfied. And Mathilde should have enough information about dwarves to know that bringing this up would involve some shame. For either the chaos dwarves are simply imitators of the Dwarves who have rejected all which Dwarves hold sacred, or they are actually related to Dwarves and have turned on their race. Either the Dwarves have let a twisted imitator of their proud traditions live and prosper, or their own kin has betrayed what is held most dear.

And while I have no doubt that neither Belegar or Kragg would even contemplate taking the Slayer Oath, I also have no doubt that this will not be a pleasant conversation. Indicating otherwise seems to trivialize just how powerful shame is to a dwarf. And furthermore, as I've said previously, even if this conversation is pleasant and reasonable, it will distract from what is important at the moment. Which is the expedition. King Belegar has done fantastic on this expedition, but I have no desire to burden him with something that will not help his expedition prosper. I would rather have his total focus on the expedition, rather than have a silver of his attention being brought to think about Chaos Dwarves.
 
Talking about the dark dwarves with them is a prelude to talking about the dark dwarves with the Grey Order. They might know about them, but few places are likely to know as much about them as Kragg the fucking Grim, and knowing more about the enemies of order is a good thing for the Empire. Even if they are "Way the fuck that way". If nothing else, we can warn other Grey Wizards about it, and not to bring it up. Keep in mind, Mat told the Colledge she was going to dwarf town, and no one mentioned anything about dark dwarves. So either to Colledge doesn't know, or for some reason decided not to tell her, even with mind spells on hand, like for the Skaven. And I don't know about you, but I think the Colledge needs to know about another kind of dwarf, a dark one, before their merchants, traders and other agents abuse the ignorance.
I completely agree. But I still vote to stay silent.

Many people have been complaining about all the borderline OOC arguments to stay silent, but I feel that mine is completely IC. We are an agent of the most powerful Imperial intelligence agency. This (as of yet) unverified information is huge news if true, but the way we actually got ot is both suspect and endangers Mathilde's standing and ability to function as an agent if found out. So no, I am not fundamentally opposed to the Dwarfs finding out we know, but this shouldn't be up to us. It should be up to the Grey Patriarch. Now, this would be different if this info had direct strategic consequences regarding the expedition, but it doesn't. Afaik Black Orcs have existed for centuries, so whatever Dwarven Chaos Cult birthed them will not suddenly become a new issue tomorrow. And if the Black Orcs all originated from one of the 8 Peaks then our Dwarven friends would know that already.

tl;dr~ We are a Grey Wizard. Our loyalty should be with our Order, and through it the Empire. And anyone who thinks that the Order's MO is to immediately disclose unvetted information of high but not urgent importance is simply wrong IMO.
Kinda agreed: if we do vote to keep silent here than im probably going to vote to keep silent to the grey wizards: high risk plus consistencey of reasoning in character.
I don't think that follows. It definitely isn't how I would vote.
If you don't want to vote for telling them that's fine. do what you want. But keep in mind that if we don't tell them and they find out that Mathilde was 'possessed' by Mork they won't be happy about it. Of course the same could be said if we do tell them, but I personally think that if we're honest with them it would be better.
If they find out I consider us a failure as a Grey Magister.
and mollified by the oversized payday still dangling in the future.
Does that mean that there's an implied increase in payment for all mercenaries?
There isn't. This is the final day for the subject's debate. Mathidle's report to the Grey Order will communicate the maximum amount of useful information without endangering her own standing.
Is this due to how heated the discussion got or was it always the plan to default to Mathilde not lying about this kind of stuff to her direct superiors?
Not that I mind, what with your decision reflecting what I would have voted for anyway.
 
Not worth the trouble IMO. The derived benefit they might feasibly gain isn't worth the loss of rep/favours here. They would look in serious askance at a dwarf who brougt up the subject, never mind a human.
We have no way of knowing that they know chaos dwarves are a thing, much less that there is a taboo, we have no way of knowing wether or not those dwarf sorcerer's are in the process of making more varieties of greenskins or not, not telling belegar would mean not telling the ruler of the place we're in about a possible chaos cult amongst his people, who everyone thought were uncorruptible. Keeping silent is kinda irresponsible ic
 
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How do you think a dwarf runelord might decide was the most expedient way to deal with the problem of a wizard that might e possessed by Moro again based on some unknown trigger?

I don't think he could deal with it since the wizard happens to be a dwarf friend and was acting to promote dwarfish interests when the possession first happened. He might well be furious but the worst he could do is leave.
 
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