Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Well, I think the major competing fun votes are between big doggos and gambler-preaching at the moment. One might let us introduce the very big dogs to our very small dog, which would be nice, but the other might involve more toasts and stuff for our imaginary friend.
Mmm, I'm mostly joking and am not really against it, but I can't help but think that a wolf pup named Wolf after our friend Wolf getting eaten by a giant wolf belonging to a knightly ordering worshiping a wolf god to be horribly ironic.
 
Welcome to popular quests.

:facepalm: There's nothing inevitable or necessary about people making large threads unpleasant to read through. Disagree with my vote all you like, but if the tone of a thread is getting bad then there's every reason to try and stop that from happening.
I don't think the QM is that generous to make silence consequence-free if full disclosure also has potential costs. If it happens that there are linkages with Karag Nar and the plots of the other Eight Peaks, silence might well have significant consequences indeed.

What most worries me is what this says about Mathilde's character. This is dangerous information that you wouldn't want most people to know, but it's not on the level that she can't tell those she trusts about it. It's not a keep-to-the-grave secret. Belegar has extended a huge amount of trust towards Mathilde, and this is an issue that's beyond her level. She's still young, this was very much a magical conflict that could have squashed her, and everything involving siphoning off arcane energies to a deity is stuff she has no clue about. It might not put Mathilde in the best light, but she might also gain much needed knowledge herself from disclosure, as well as trying to repay the trust given to her by sharing what info she can with someone she feels she can trust.

IDK if I'm even being clear in what I'm saying...
 
[X] Tell Belegar and Kragg.
[X] Cook with Panoramia and Titus
[X] Join the hunting with Esbern and Seija
[X] Gambling
[X] Hold a Ranaldan religious service
[X] Put on a magic display (Petty and Lesser only)
[X] Yes to Shenanigans
 
:facepalm: There's nothing inevitable or necessary about people making large threads unpleasant to read through. Disagree with my vote all you like, but if the tone of a thread is getting bad then there's every reason to try and stop that from happening.
I genuinely don't disagree, it's just what I've seen from experience. You get a lot of people with different personalities and opinions and most importantly desires coming together on something, they care about it a lot so they put forth effort, and the result is conflict.

I would be delighted if all quests involved people being cheerful and putting forth calm effort and conversation to work out the most optimal path forward, that'd be fantastic. And honestly this quest has done pretty well in that regard.

But experience says it rarely if ever works perfectly.
 
Well, I think the major competing fun votes are between big doggos and gambler-preaching at the moment. One might let us introduce the very big dogs to our very small dog, which would be nice, but the other might involve more toasts and stuff for our imaginary friend.
Technically speaking, at the moment it is three of: Gambling, Preaching, Puppy-Petting, and sharing stories. Though, gambling is thoroughly in first place, so it's mostly competing for the second and third spot.
 
Considering how it's looking like a win either way will be literally a mathematical rounding error.

We're talking in a vote of... 200~ people, the decision is made by like maybe 3% of them. There's nothing more polarizing and demoralizing for a thread then a rather important decision being decided via a tight vote that can have a huge impact on things.

Put it this way, What does not telling them do? Uh... nothing bad. We don't out that we got Greenskin possessed for a bit that's a good thing. AFAIK IC we have no idea wth Chaos Dwarfs are (Likely we do know a bit due to the whole 'forgotten' silence Shadow Wizard Mind Tricks?) but either way our goal is re-capturing the area, not starting up an entirely new war with Chaos Dwarfs/Cultists that are by all apparent means far away from here (And the time bit was 'long time ago right?'). So again a non-entity at the current time to the best of our knowledge.

TLDR: Telling them at best means they have to plan for another grudge settling to deal with the Chaos Dwarfs... something that likely the Kings plan to do at some nebulous point in the future and maybe we get a dwarf favor point.
Telling them at worst means we get hit with some negative Dwarf Rep and Trust points because uh we got posssessed by a Greenskin God. And maybe also stirred up old grudges they don't want to think about right now as they're solving a bunch of them. So these two take a morale hit.

TLDR 2: Basically, risk/reward rise the Risk is >>>>> Reward for telling them, where-as not telling them... does not appear to have any real risk?
Mmm, well said, yes.
 
Mmm, I'm mostly joking and am not really against it, but I can't help but think that a wolf pup named Wolf after our friend Wolf getting eaten by a giant wolf belonging to a knightly ordering worshiping a wolf god to be horribly ironic.
Big dogs don't do that to small dogs, not even big dogs trained to fight, unless they're upset. They are very chill.
Technically speaking, at the moment it is three of: Gambling, Preaching, Puppy-Petting, and sharing stories. Though, gambling is thoroughly in first place, so it's mostly competing for the second and third spot.
Cooking with the shire-crew is also locked in, I think.
 
IC keeping mum about a potential dwarven chaos cult could be very risky.
Our vision gave a sense of the deep time behind the origin of the black orks and that they were were the result of an extensive breeding program by a settlement that controlled a lot of land and a lot of slaves. It also showed the petrification of the sorcerors.

We are not talking a cult currently hidden among the Dwarves, we're talking people that controlled at least a city hundreds of years ago who bear obvious stigmata of their ways. I don't think there is any reason why Mathilde, even with IC ignorance, would think they represent a risk here that can be averted by speaking now.
 
You can't survive in the Southern Chaos Wastes as a devotee of a manling god.
Nonsense, you only say that because nobody ever has. :p

So, to hopefully divert some of the rancor, anyone have suggestions for Dwarf Shenanigans?
Eye of the beholder to make them fight over trash, marsh light to have them run in circles.

The possessed by Mork bit is super concerning that I'm not totally okay with telling our Grey Wizard bosses about since that's just not a good look at all.

Maybe so, but it is vital that we tell them, to fail to do so would be putting lives in danger. I doubt we will be the last grey wizard sneaking in to disrupt a greenskin ritual. It will be important for future wizards to know the potential risk.

We might be adding to the book of grudges with the information about the chaos dwarves, but I feel that having confirmation that the greenskin's god's power was stolen has got to be good for striking out two or three more.

Honestly, I feel the thing Kragg will be most upset about is the fact that we couldn't even go a century before finding something his belt could not protect against.
 
From the look of it, the only to gain from telling them is probably trust. Mathilde telling them what would be a controversial truth is a show of faith from her part.

Mathilde would get access to all the information that the thread is using to debate the issue, ideally. Spymistress digging into secrets. Please remember, we know a bunch, she doesn't. Because we were in her head when she saw the chaos dwarfs, and there was no recognition.

Yes, strategically, it's valuable, but we have no way of acting on it because they're so far away from us and have a buffer zone only slightly less impassable than the Chaos Wastes between the Old World and any way to actually hit them. (And they're not making more Black Orcs nowadays either)

Definitely OOC info to lessen the urgency of the info.
I mean, are you SURE they don't have a peak in K8P?

If Dwarfs cannot avenge a grudge, it's an anchor on them, and that's exactly what you're proposing giving them--a Grudge they can't avenge.

I'm honestly not sure if this line of argument is ooc for Mathilde or not. What would common knowledge on dwarf grudges be, and how common is the knowledge that the empire is declining largely due to grudges? IE, how likely is it for a stirlander mostly on the outside of the grey order's info networks to know that not giving a dwarf info on a grudge is an act of mercy?

You're the one who's misunderstanding the Dwarven mindset.

So, this misunderstanding is likely to be a common one for humans to make? ...I'm not sure how far you are shading your opinion as fact here, also.

The possessed by Mork bit is super concerning that I'm not totally okay with telling our Grey Wizard bosses about since that's just not a good look at all.

Kinda agreed: if we do vote to keep silent here than im probably going to vote to keep silent to the grey wizards: high risk plus consistencey of reasoning in character.

But.

I think Mathilde should be concerned about being possessed. I think she should be worried and self-doubting after the experience of being puppeted, and paranoid that now that Mork has touched her once, he could do it again with little to no notice. I think that she should be looking for someone who knows protective magics and godly lore to ask for help.

So I think that going to Kragg because she is worried about the same things he, or the grey order, would worry about due to possession. And Kragg may be able to help.
 
Kragg seems aware that we know more than we chose to say in our report. This is fine. That is what he expects of a proper professional. Among Dawi every guild has its secrets and mysteries and they take them dead seriously. Knowing when to shut up is a virtue among Dwarves.

Yeah amoung Dawi. We arn't Dawi though we're human and thus every secret we keep from him is just another reason why humans aren't to be trusted.

If you don't want to vote for telling them that's fine. do what you want. But keep in mind that if we don't tell them and they find out that Mathilde was 'possessed' by Mork they won't be happy about it. Of course the same could be said if we do tell them, but I personally think that if we're honest with them it would be better.
 
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Yeah amoung Dawi. We arn't Dawi though we're human and thus every secret we keep from him is just another reason why humans aren't to be trusted.

If you don't want to vote for telling them that's fine. do what you want. But keep in mind that if we don't tell them and they find out that Mathilde was 'possessed' by Mork they won't be happy about it. Of course the same could be said if we do tell them, but I personally think that if we're honest with them it would be better.
They don't care about human secrets unless they effect Dawi, and this does not affect Dawi because it does not cause anything that can be predicted or prepared for or that isn't already known.

They're not going to be happy either way, so better to stick with the option that makes it much less likely they find out.
 
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I don't understand why so many posts insist on presenting Ranald in the worst light.

Yes, he is the god of thieves, he is also the god of many traders. Also, he is most pointedly not the god of greedy theft.
Yes, he is the god of the common people, but he also has a decent following within the nobility.

He very much is known for having followers among all strata and most walks of life. He very specifically supports a wide variety of different lifestyles and philosophies. He is not the most mainstream of gods, and people do enjoy being sneaky about their worship, but it's not like his worship is universally despised by polite society.

Telling them she mollowers can disagree with each other.
Merchants worship Heyndrich though as a counter to Ranald, some in this thread interpret that as Ranald playing a long con, while i interpret the bloody purges of Ranaldite worshippers as making Heydrich a different god entirely. SImilarly, that God of Rustlers and Bandits (Gunndred) who also some believe in-universe as another aspect of Ranald. Gunndred's blessings though are more combat and intimidation oriented.
 
So I think that going to Kragg because she is worried about the same things he, or the grey order, would worry about due to possession. And Kragg may be able to help.
Kragg is not a kindly old elder predisposed towards helping an inferior race doing reckless things fix problems related to that. Like at all. And that isn't OOC.
 
Maybe so, but it is vital that we tell them, to fail to do so would be putting lives in danger. I doubt we will be the last grey wizard sneaking in to disrupt a greenskin ritual. It will be important for future wizards to know the potential risk.
If being possessed by Mork and/or Gork was so common that it's a real risk for any Grey Wizard messing with Greenskin rituals that informing the order is important than something like this has probably already happened in the past since Gank the Shaman is like the 1st play in the Grey Wizard handbook vs greenskins. Anyways I think we should just write off the whole Mork Possession thing as a freak occurrence for this specific situation and not something we should expect to ever happen again even if other people IC won't think the same.
 
I genuinely don't disagree, it's just what I've seen from experience. You get a lot of people with different personalities and opinions and most importantly desires coming together on something, they care about it a lot so they put forth effort, and the result is conflict.

I would be delighted if all quests involved people being cheerful and putting forth calm effort and conversation to work out the most optimal path forward, that'd be fantastic. And honestly this quest has done pretty well in that regard.

But experience says it rarely if ever works perfectly.

Conflict, sure. It does happen. But I don't expect or want conversations to be perfect. I just want people to be self conscious enough to recognize when a conversation is turning sour and then decide not to escalate in an attempt to "win". But I'm getting completely off-topic here...
 
Kragg is not our friend.

He will never be our friend.

But what do I know, I'm just one meaningless opinion.
Not with that attitude. All it will take is three or four (or five or six) Nat100s and we'll be best friends. People will tell adventures of Magister Mathilde and Kragg the Happy, reclaiming Holds, slaying Orks, and generally making everybody question their grip on reality. It'll be fabulous.
 
Anyways, updated my vote with a few things I didn't have.

[X] Remain silent.

Very little to no gain for a great deal of possible risk.

[X] Join the hunting with Maximilian

[X] Join the hunting with Ruprecht Wulfhart
[X] 'Make sure the ale hasn't gone bad' with Skaroki

[X] Telling war stories
[X] Gambling
[X] Help move the Karag Nar hoard

[X] Yes to Shenanigans
 
They don't care about human secrets unless they effect Dawi, and this does not affect Dawi because it does not cause anything that can be predicted or prepared for or that isn't already known.

I think there is definitely an argument for how keeping the fact that 'one of those manling wizards who where taught magic by one of those thrice cursed elves was possessed by one of the green-skin gods and did something with it's powers in one of our holds' does affect the dwarfs.

Remember dwarfs in Warhammer don't like things that aren't dwarven and haven't been dwarven for at least 500 years. And even then it's only to be used begrudgingly.
 
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I think there is definitely an argument for how keeping the fact that 'one of those manling wizards who where taught magic by one of those thrice cursed elves was possessed by one of the green-skin gods and did something with it's powers in one of our holds' does affect the dwarfs.

"Hey someone was struck by lightning from out of a clear sky and walked it off, this is important information we need so spread around so we can develop appropriate anti bolt-from-the-blue tactics"

That's what this argument boils down to.
 
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