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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Derpmind said:
I can't argue against everything, and much of the argument for and against disclosure happened over the... 67 pages since it came up two updates ago. But the Chaos Dwarf argument is more recent and is what very much most upsets me. Frankly I don't think I can even keep up with the thread while posting.
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The possession and Chaos Dwarf thing is tied together. Revealing either presents problems with no gain. If you want to argue that some of it (and I repeat, some of it, even you didn't refute my argument that it isn't 100% OOC) is OOC, fine, that's fair. But it's still an argument, and when it's a problem tied with another problem to make a bigger problem, that makes it worse to bring up.

I'm sure that one could argue people on both sides of this have made their arguments poorly. But voting against something because of spite or not liking the nature of the argument regardless of the accuracy is just not productive.

The fact is we cannot prepare in anyway for Greenskin retaliation without burrowing up and never coming out. We cannot deal with the Chaos Dwarves right now without destroying them, and that is NOT something that helps anyone on this campaign, which is what we must be focused on, not trying to be a world-mover. For all intents and purposes, however you want to look at it, there is nothing to gain and many, many ways to lose.
 
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I don't see any real point to telling Belgar and Kragg the remaining info since the Ranald part they won't care about. The possessed by Mork bit is super concerning that I'm not totally okay with telling our Grey Wizard bosses about since that's just not a good look at all.

And finally the Chaos Dwarves part? While the main arguments against telling about them are OOC (though I think Mathilde understands dwarves enough by now to have an idea) I feel the arguments about how important it is and how we absolutely need to tell them to be just as OOC. Cause correct me if I'm wrong but we have no In-character info telling us that the dwarfs don't already know about the origins of the black orcs and Mathilde has no idea IC that Chaos Dwarfs are anything more than a real crazy group of evil dwarfs who decided to make a better Orc and maybe had the misfortune of succeeding too well at that task.
 
Lightwhispers said:
So, to hopefully divert some of the rancor, anyone have suggestions for Dwarf Shenanigans? For reference,

So, some initial ideas:
-Conscripting goblins to act as no-wings Doom Divers - with some artillerists/rangers acting as judges to make sure that Dwarves can shoot goblins more accurately than goblins can shoot goblins.
-Road Runner shenanigans using Skywalk.
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I like Road Runner Shenanigans.

As my own recommendation: Get them to fight over illusionary food.
 
Considering how it's looking like a win either way will be literally a mathematical rounding error.

We're talking in a vote of... 200~ people, the decision is made by like maybe 3% of them. There's nothing more polarizing and demoralizing for a thread then a rather important decision being decided via a tight vote that can have a huge impact on things.

Put it this way, What does not telling them do? Uh... nothing bad. We don't out that we got Greenskin possessed for a bit that's a good thing. AFAIK IC we have no idea wth Chaos Dwarfs are (Likely we do know a bit due to the whole 'forgotten' silence Shadow Wizard Mind Tricks?) but either way our goal is re-capturing the area, not starting up an entirely new war with Chaos Dwarfs/Cultists that are by all apparent means far away from here (And the time bit was 'long time ago right?'). So again a non-entity at the current time to the best of our knowledge.

TLDR: Telling them at best means they have to plan for another grudge settling to deal with the Chaos Dwarfs... something that likely the Kings plan to do at some nebulous point in the future and maybe we get a dwarf favor point.
Telling them at worst means we get hit with some negative Dwarf Rep and Trust points because uh we got posssessed by a Greenskin God. And maybe also stirred up old grudges they don't want to think about right now as they're solving a bunch of them. So these two take a morale hit.

TLDR 2: Basically, risk/reward rise the Risk is >>>>> Reward for telling them, where-as not telling them... does not appear to have any real risk?
 
LightMage said:
TLDR 2: Basically, risk/reward rise the Risk is >>>>> Reward for telling them, where-as not telling them... does not appear to have any real risk?
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I don't think the QM is that generous to make silence consequence-free if full disclosure also has potential costs. If it happens that there are linkages with Karag Nar and the plots of the other Eight Peaks, silence might well have significant consequences indeed.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Ok, that started pretty funny and the edit made it confusing.
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Eh, I felt like the original was a bit too short and might be misinterpreted somehow so I felt the need to add onto it. I'm tired and doing this stuff on my phone, sooo.

also the image of Abel introducing Matty to the Zhufbar dwarfs as 'his dwarf friend' and shoving her forward to interpret is now stuck in my head so I can't remove it now
 
Andmeuths said:
I don't think the QM is that generous to make silence consequence-free. If it happens that there are linkages with Karag Nar and the plots of the other Eight Peaks, silence might well have a cost indeed.
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What parts have we not told them that would link with those plots?

The only things we've still got under our hats was the momentary puppeteering by Mork, the fact we gave the power to Ranald, and the whole Black Orc vision. None of these are things I can see as having impact on this campaign without some really torturous logic.
 
Andmeuths said:
I don't think the QM is that generous to make silence consequence-free. If it happens that there are linkages with Karag Nar and the plots of the other Eight Peaks, silence might well have a cost indeed.
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Again, infinite series of possibilities. We cannot possibly infer what might happen from this when we don't know anything about the subject, especially when the subject effects an already somewhat random, chaotic, violent race
 
LightMage said:
Considering how it's looking like a win either way will be literally a mathematical rounding error.

We're talking in a vote of... 200~ people, the decision is made by like maybe 3% of them. There's nothing more polarizing and demoralizing for a thread then a rather important decision being decided via a tight vote that can have a huge impact on things.

Put it this way, What does not telling them do? Uh... nothing bad. We don't out that we got Greenskin possessed for a bit that's a good thing. AFAIK IC we have no idea wth Chaos Dwarfs are (Likely we do know a bit due to the whole 'forgotten' silence Shadow Wizard Mind Tricks?) but either way our goal is re-capturing the area, not starting up an entirely new war with Chaos Dwarfs/Cultists that are by all apparent means far away from here (And the time bit was 'long time ago right?'). So again a non-entity at the current time to the best of our knowledge.

TLDR: Telling them at best means they have to plan for another grudge settling to deal with the Chaos Dwarfs... something that likely the Kings plan to do at some nebulous point in the future and maybe we get a dwarf favor point.
Telling them at worst means we get hit with some negative Dwarf Rep and Trust points because uh we got posssessed by a Greenskin God. And maybe also stirred up old grudges they don't want to think about right now as they're solving a bunch of them. So these two take a morale hit.

TLDR 2: Basically, risk/reward rise the Risk is >>>>> Reward for telling them, where-as not telling them... does not appear to have any real risk?
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IC keeping mum about a potential dwarven chaos cult could be very risky.
 
Kragg seems aware that we know more than we chose to say in our report. This is fine. That is what he expects of a proper professional. Among Dawi every guild has its secrets and mysteries and they take them dead seriously. Knowing when to shut up is a virtue among Dwarves.
 
Alectai said:
What parts have we not told them that would link with those plots?

The only things we've still got under our hats was the momentary puppeteering by Mork, the fact we gave the power to Ranald, and the whole Black Orc vision. None of these are things I can see as having impact on this campaign without some really torturous logic.
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That there are rituals being conducted that aim at changing the nature of the Oricsh gods? That the Expedition can expect more interference by Gork and Mork and the heresies of Only Gork and Only Mork? It's impossible to say without speculating what the plots of the other Peaks are, but I do think that both full disclosure and silence have their respective costs and tradeoffs. If Silence seems to be consequence-free, I'd get suspicious of the QM generosity here.....

Note: I'm not saying that full disclosure is free, all I'm saying is that both full disclosure and silence are likely not consequence-free decisions.
 
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Robotninja said:
This is not a video game. There can in fact be choices that don't have symmetry.
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Technically, even video games can have asymmetrical choices!

After all, if you take the Dragonlord's Deal, it doesn't end too well for you.

(Specifically, it ends with him renaming his castle 'Half of the World' and leaving you imprisoned inside it while he takes the entire world outside of it)


Andmeuths said:
That there are rituals being conducted that aim at changing the nature of the Oricsh gods? That the Expedition can expect more interference by Gork and Mork and the heresies of Only Gork and Only Mork? It's impossible to say without speculating what the plots of the other Peaks are, but I do think that both full disclosure and silence have their respective costs and tradeoffs. If Silence seems to be consequence-free, I'd get suspicious of the QM generosity here.....
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The only reason this is a vote at all is because someone came up with the idea of giving a private report when it was too late to swing the last vote, so he's giving us a chance to hang ourselves if we need to.

"Silence" is "The status quo as of the previous update" which was 'All the things that are logically relevant to the campaign have been disclosed and the only things left behind are unknowable shit that are well out of anyone's pay grade to understand more than the immediate effects of, plus learning of a certain massive shame of the Dwarfs and establishing we know it'
 
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Alright. How about those other vote choices?

Cause, I am rapidly reaching the point where I will be ignoring anything thst isn't a QM post.
 
buli-buli said:
Alright. How about those other vote choices?
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There's going to be a lot of drinking.

Edit: "Ranaldian Service" and "War Stories" are currently neck-and-neck.
Adhoc vote count started by Derpmind on Sep 23, 2019 at 11:30 PM, finished with 644 posts and 204 votes.
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buli-buli said:
Alright. How about those other vote choices?

Cause, I am rapidly reaching the point where I will be ignoring anything thst isn't a QM post.
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I'm a little torn between "mingle with the subordinates" and "mingle with the political high rankers", but leaning towards the latter so not changing my vote in that regard. One is important for campaign, another important for life.

Andmeuths said:
That there are rituals being conducted that aim at changing the nature of the Oricsh gods? That the Expedition can expect more interference by Gork and Mork and the heresies of Only Gork and Only Mork? It's impossible to say without speculating what the plots of the other Peaks are, but I do think that both full disclosure and silence have their respective costs and tradeoffs. If Silence seems to be consequence-free, I'd get suspicious of the QM generosity here.....

Note: I'm not saying that full disclosure is free, all I'm saying is that both full disclosure and silence are likely not consequence-free decisions.
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Again, infinite series of possibilities. Shamans and wizards are probably doing nefarious things every day, there's nothing one can do about it that isn't already done.
 
buli-buli said:
Alright. How about those other vote choices?

Cause, I am rapidly reaching the point where I will be ignoring anything thst isn't a QM post.
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Well, I think the major competing fun votes are between big doggos and gambler-preaching at the moment. One might let us introduce the very big dogs to our very small dog, which would be nice, but the other might involve more toasts and stuff for our imaginary friend.
 
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