Imagine thinking that entropy is a real problem in a world where magic exists :D
We literally saw a giant ball of entropy over the upper planes, it's not the scientific concept of entropy, but it's there.
There is also some hints that eventually the planes will "even out", the realm of fire becoming cooler explicitly.
That sounds like entropy to me.
 
We literally saw a giant ball of entropy over the upper planes, it's not the scientific concept of entropy, but it's there.
There is also some hints that eventually the planes will "even out", the realm of fire becoming cooler explicitly.
That sounds like entropy to me.
I don't know where you saw those hints about the elemental planes. They're infinite and create matter from nothing. Why would they ever even out?

And the Void seems to have a mind. It's not entropy, it's just another lifeform that's incredibly hostile to literally everything else.
And in any case, the Void can be contained and held out. Furthermore, we live in a universe with infinite plans that are naturally full of magic. We have a literally endless well of power to tap if we can set up shields against the Void. In-setting, the Void's big victories relied on people tearing down wards and whatnot - it didn't seem to "naturalyl" wear down the planes.

Basically I see the Void as an enemy that can corrupt others, not as a natural force. It's Tzeench, not a personification of gravity.
 
I don't know where you saw those hints about the elemental planes. They're infinite and create matter from nothing. Why would they ever even out?

And the Void seems to have a mind. It's not entropy, it's just another lifeform that's incredibly hostile to literally everything else.
And in any case, the Void can be contained and held out. Furthermore, we live in a universe with infinite plans that are naturally full of magic. We have a literally endless well of power to tap if we can set up shields against the Void. In-setting, the Void's big victories relied on people tearing down wards and whatnot - it didn't seem to "naturalyl" wear down the planes.

Basically I see the Void as an enemy that can corrupt others, not as a natural force. It's Tzeench, not a personification of gravity.
Someone told us, don't remember the exact quote that the plane of fire used to be much hotter, and is cooling down.
Think of it as us still riding the magic wave of the big bang, who can tell is the rate at which the planes create stuff from nothing is slowing down? The naturally full of magic might be tied to that, creation is still abundant, even if not ridiculously so as it was at the beginning, but every spell cast, ever shake of the plane of Earth, every expansion of the plane of air, they tap those vast but not infinite reserves.
We probably still have a few trillions of years before the heat death of the multiverse, so no need to worry about that.
 
I don't know where you saw those hints about the elemental planes. They're infinite and create matter from nothing. Why would they ever even out?

And the Void seems to have a mind. It's not entropy, it's just another lifeform that's incredibly hostile to literally everything else.
And in any case, the Void can be contained and held out. Furthermore, we live in a universe with infinite plans that are naturally full of magic. We have a literally endless well of power to tap if we can set up shields against the Void. In-setting, the Void's big victories relied on people tearing down wards and whatnot - it didn't seem to "naturalyl" wear down the planes.

Basically I see the Void as an enemy that can corrupt others, not as a natural force. It's Tzeench, not a personification of gravity.

One thing of note here the Planes are infinite, but the Prime Material is not and it is the keystone of existence if that gets broken... well no one is entirely sure what would happen but sages believe it would make the Disharmony of the Spheres look mild by comparison
 
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Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Sep 17, 2019 at 12:32 PM, finished with 45 posts and 8 votes.

  • [X] Hello New Minion
    -[X] We want the Hooded Lord as our vassal to rule the Goblin Market in our name
    -[X] What we ask is that he heed our laws and follow all the other rules of being a vassal and a citizen, and should he come into the possession of secrets that are of interest to the Imperium (the movement of enemies, and nefarious plots, etc) he then pass it on to the Inquisition or directly to us depending on the severity.
    --[X] We have no problem with his current form of taxation (a small cut of every bargain in the Goblin Market), it's just that our taxation would be him passing along vital intel when it comes into his hands.
    --[X] We also want to make it so that it's not possible for mortals to accidentally wander into the Goblin Market, that they be guided back to Lys should they wish to leave, and that there be at least some regulations on unfair bargains from some of the Fey we encountered in our investigations. Nothing too stringent, those bargains will still be possible, but they must be informed decisions on the part of the mortals.
    -[X] What we offer is our aid should he ever need it, equipment for himself and his enforcers from our artificers, full legitimacy as a Lord under us, freedom to traverse the Imperium as a citizen and partake in the markets of Sorcerer's Deep and the Spheres beyond, etc.
    --[X] This includes a Calligraphy Wyrm, a Whispering Brazier, etc, everything the lords of the Imperium have.
    -[X] Further, ask if there is anything in particular he wants. If it's not too much it can probably be granted.
    -[X] As a side note, to help sweeten the deal, inform him that the Nameless Fey that has so troubled him has been dealt with. //OOC: Illustrates the use of having the Dragon King at your back.
 
Part MMMLXVIV: A Trader's Scales
A Trader's Scales

Twenty-Eighth Day of the Tenth Month 293 AC

Though you had spoken of taxes you seek something much more valuable than coin here. Just as in the arcane reflections of the House of Mirrors or the whispers of the Shadow Fey it is knowledge you desire, eyes and ears that might pierce the plots of your foes before they can do harm to your realm and its citizens. "I would ask that you and all those who answer to you follow the laws of the realm and pass information of any present or future threats to the Inquisition or other investigative branches..."

"A deal I can find no fault with in substance, though the form may be troublesome," the Hooded Lord interjects. "If a mortal should sell a third of his years for the skill and grace to court the beloved of his heart, and then perish without mark or illness when the hour comes due, would not his kin claim that Fey magic slew him? Here it is and in many other instances I can conceive that the law is silent and the mob likely to be loud. We who are the children of Faerie may trade in substance more sublime than common matter, but the price paid is no less binding for it. Those years, once given, could be traded on in turn. Tell me, Dragon King, will you protect us from the cries and demands accustomed to the careless generosity of the divine?"

Before you can answer the Lord of Shadow speaks, turning a pale Weirwood twig between his fingers. "If you know a bargain to be troublesome to mortals then why chance it? I do not sell shadow viper venom and then expect to be treated as one who trades in honey and mead."

"I do not sell, I do not buy, I keep the peace, one that mortals break more often than the Fey once the intoxication of triumph, wealth, or glory wears away and they must consider the cost." The hooded head tips as though the one beneath it is considering the other Fey Lord in a new light.

"Intoxication." The word has an edge to it, though not yet any anger. "I mislike the word, if bargains are to be made under my authority and with my subjects, then they must be sound of mind and fully aware of the terms of the agreement."

"Mortals and Fey alike grow drunk on dreams and hopes more often than on any wine," comes the reply. Were you minded to read the voice that speaks in the splash of raindrops you would say there is a shadow of sorrow there, but it is gone too soon to be certain. "Still, that is an acceptable condition. The business lost from fools without the wit to understand the bargain they have wrought will be gained as more mortals come to trust Fey trade more."

"Speaking of stumbling into peril, I would have your assurance that any wander into the Goblin Market without intent would be escorted back at no cost to them should they choose to," you add. Sadly you think of a few reasons why someone might not wish to leave and sooner take their chances with the fickle Fey than the world of men.

"Agreed, such lost ones are often interesting, particularly for those of a darker disposition, they are rarely profitable." The words offer no judgement on such cruelty as they describe. Hermetia shivers sightly beside you, and not from the rain you would wager. While you sympathize, if compassion were required to enter your service you would be much poorer in vassals and she would likely be dead for the lack of her Erinyes guard.

"In exchange for leal service you shall have protection, the right to trade freely both in my realm and with my allies of the spheres of Earth and Air, an enchanted brazier for swift communication, and if you wish a construct assistant," you conclude, nothing extraordinary, but then you would not be ruling the market with any but the lightest of touches. The Hooded Lord had not been wrong in his estimation. You desire to directly rule a portion of the Feywild slightly less than you want a parcel of land in Hell.

"And on the matter of more arcane trade, with mortals in full possession of their faculties of course," the Lord of the Goblin Market presses. "Where would you draw the line?"

What do you reply?

[] Write in

OOC: Good rolls all around for Diplomacy and Sense Motive As far as Viserys can tell this is an honest question, not an attempt to specifically screw mortals over. The Hooded Lord wants to see what his profit margins are going to be and the diversity of services offered is a part of that.
 
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One thing of note here the Planes are infinite, but the Prime Material is not and it is the keystone of existence if that gets broken... well no one is entirely sure what would happen but sages believe it would make the Disharmony of the Spheres look mild by comparison
Stop fear-mongering! The Plane has a long history of being defended by huge armies of angry Dragons whenever seriously threatened. And like our ancestors before us, this plane is where we keep our loot.
It'll be fine.

No, I'm not actually that cocky. And I'm quite aware that huge planar disasters can conceivably deal huge damage to the cosmos, potentially destroying even infinite Planes (I hit your infinite stick with my own infinite stick! die!).
I just don't think that the multiverse is destined to inevitably suffer from entropy. This is D&D after all, not the real world.
 
You desire to directly rule a portion of the Feywild slightly less than you want a parcel of land in Hell.
That... Is quite an ominous wording, implying we are more likely to make deals with Archdevils than with Fey!

Oh wait.
:V

I'd say, we should definitely draw the line above the "buys suspicious trade or powerful magical items without being a member of Inquisiton", but I think we covered that with the "share any threats to the State they learn of"-clause already?

I'm not sure what he's asking here.
 
Hasn't this problem already been solved by the Braavosi?
I remember hearing about lawyers social-fu-fighting Shadow Fey...

I pity the Fey.
 
Tell me, Dragon King, will you protect us from the cries and demands accustomed to the careless generosity of the divine?"
Yes.

"And on the matter of more arcane trade, with mortals in full possession of their faculties of course," the lord of the Goblin Market presses. "Where would you draw the line?"
He a trader would know better than us what exactly leads to massive and unprofitable disruption.

As far as the lines go... At least a token effort to not sell to our enemies would be appreciated? As well as slavery of the sort practiced by the brazen throne and hell.

For trading with demons, devil's, and dark Fey? Fine. If they decide to cause issues with your wares well address ot on a case by case basis.
 
@DragonParadox, can you clarify a bit? Is he asking what situations he'd have to put down and get involved in?

He is asking more generally to what degree it is acceptable for mortals (of sound mind) to sell abstract parts of their identity, like an artist selling his perception of color, or like in the example above someone selling years off their lives. Stuff like that could cause trouble down the line so he is asking now.
 
He is asking more generally to what degree it is acceptable for mortals (of sound mind) to sell abstract parts of their identity, like an artist selling his perception of color, or like in the example above someone selling years off their lives. Stuff like that could cause trouble down the line so he is asking now.
...Honestly, so long as the person is of the sound mind, and is not under an external pressure to take the deal, I personally see no reason to draw much lines, if any.

Its their own choice what to sacrifice in a deal, whether to make it or not, no?

Would Viserys care overly much personally?
Or is that a thing that concerns him as a Ruler specifically?
 
He is asking more generally to what degree it is acceptable for mortals (of sound mind) to sell abstract parts of their identity, like an artist selling his perception of color, or like in the example above someone selling years off their lives. Stuff like that could cause trouble down the line so he is asking now.
Not taking something that makes them actively cancerous to reality like the nameless is a good start.

Edit: I'm not implying je responsible for that, but like...

Protecting people from each other is the laws job. Protecting people from themselves will take decades of education on how this stuff actually works.
 
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[X] Ask in turn how much control he has over the merchants on his market, if a ledger of all things sold and traded could be provided the rules would be less strict than should we blanket ban certain items from trade.
-[X] Ask as well how easy it is for them to move the market to a different city, some seasonal movement to cities that wish to harbor them would increase their mistique and open new markets from them, often people will flock to buy something that is only available for a time even as they let slip something they wanted more but felt always at their fingertips.


I want to truly bind them, let's see how much freedom they are willing to trade for some safety and prosperity.
 
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[X] There is no issue so long as the merchants do not:
-[X] Knowingly aid their customers in breaking the law of the Imperium
-[X] Knowingly create a danger to the citizens (creating something that is an immediate threat or close to it)
-[X] Knowingly act against us and our allies


If they really want to bargain in fey deals, if they're fully informed then they're free to do so. So long as they don't threaten other citizens or our allies with their bargains it's their choice.
 
@Duesal let's be more proactive, not only answer but ask in turn, we ideally walk out of this with a list of Fey merchants and some way to veto them from the market if they break our rules.
Maybe even a "certified merchant" badge they can use to deal even with more restricted items, or drunk people provided they only offer some mild "got a tattoo" or "wake up with 100 dollars less" regret rather than trading away their souls.
 
[X] Duesal
Yeah, this is fine.
I may hate Fey, but if they are to stay, these conditions are at least making them minimally disruptive.

@DragonParadox, interlude on Lya's Research into Fey Wards and R'hlor's book (both helped by Melisande) please?

I think that's the last RA we had yet to see the results for, although I might be misremembering - wasn't Beryl on research of some Efreeti Lazors?
 
[X] Duesal
Yeah, this is fine.
I may hate Fey, but if they are to stay, these conditions are at least making them minimally disruptive.

@DragonParadox, interlude on Lya's Research into Fey Wards and R'hlor's book (both helped by Melisande) please?

I think that's the last RA we had yet to see the results for, although I might be misremembering - wasn't Beryl on research of some Efreeti Lazors?

I think I will wait a bit to see if we get enough votes for another full update. I don't want to leave you guys overnight with a finished vote.
 
@Duesal let's be more proactive, not only answer but ask in turn, we ideally walk out of this with a list of Fey merchants and some way to veto them from the market if they break our rules.
Maybe even a "certified merchant" badge they can use to deal even with more restricted items, or drunk people provided they only offer some mild "got a tattoo" or "wake up with 100 dollars less" regret rather than trading away their souls.
That seems like it's toeing the line. I don't really care about the individual petty merchants so long as the overall law is upheld and enforced.

Also @DragonParadox, once we finalize the deal, can the Hooded Lord join our investigation into the agents of the Court of Stars and Ymeri by lending us his Fey Enforcers and whatever intel he's got?
 
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