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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Asheram said:
It's an old saying that there are no atheists in foxholes. When enemy besets you from all sides, when there's no hope left, you don't pray to the war gods to bless your sword or to strengthen your arm, no you pray to Ranald because what you need now, the only thing left, is luck.
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Yes, that's true, and as I said, I'd expect that even a priest-general of Myrmidia would make the appropriate sacrifices/prayers to Ranald for luck before battle. Just as I'd expect that a warrior who favoured Ranald would pay his respects to a warrior/war god as well when he was entering battle, just as he'd pay his respects to Shallya if he fell ill. In a truly polytheistic setting like this paying respect to one god shouldn't interact with your ability to pay your respects to another, as long as they don't have actively contradictory spheres of influence. A Roman soldier, for example, would pay their respects to both Mars and Victoria as well as Fortuna Belli, with some prayers to their unit's tutelary deity just for good measure, and wouldn't see that doing so with one at all compromised the respect he paid to the others.
 
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Ah, this thread is as friendly as ever...
Alratan said:
I have to say this is what I see as one of the issues with having pets (or waifus) in quests. People fixate on them to the exclusion of better options simply because they want to make a point of how important they are, even though the fact that they're a continual part of the characters life so don't need to be.
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I think part of the problem is that people want to see (well, read) that. It's all fine and dandy if we're petting the doggo (wolfo?) off-screen, but then we readers don't get to read about petting the wolfo. Or interacting with the journeymanlings. Or... I think it's just those two. If the only chance we get to interact with doggo and journeymanlings is on monumentous occasions, then it will compete with socialising with the high and mighty.
 
ctulhuslp said:
edit: Naming after the author is honestly for kind of wizards with head stuffed full of sense of self-importance; nice for Chamon Wizards, who are into shiny gold things and being full of bling, or for Bright Wizards, full of hot air. Not so much for Grey Wizards.
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Naming spells after yourself is going to be incredibly obscure in every facet of society except exactly one: the Colleges. It's actually a perfectly good idea. It boosts our recognition in academic circles, which is the one area we want to draw attention in. Grey wizards deal in both light and dark, not just the shadows (I believe Mathilde considered how her repertoire tends to lean towards the latter right now.) As well as this, naming things after yourself is widely done in modern-day academia, never mind the Empire, which in fact leans towards slapping your name on things even harder.

Like, I get what you're saying, but - and I say this without any intended insult - you're just wrong.

ctulhuslp said:
You can note that often even the most legendary weapons like Ghal Maraz or Elector Count swords do not have author's name on it. Because truly legendary artifacts etch the name of the creator into history without anything so narcissistic as naming the item after the creator.
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ctulhuslp said:
Imagine if Kragg slapped big golden lettered inscription "KRAGG THE BLINGY, YOUR DADDY" onto every creation of his. Given quality of his work, he has a right to do so way more than we do, more often than not; dude's a living legend by any measure. He does not do so - because he understands that his works praise his name way more than any gauche shiny nameplate could ever do.
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This is in fact a perfect example, because reputable smiths all have touchmarks for exactly that reason, just as academics slap their names on their discoveries. It's not "gauche", it's considered normal and expected in our own world, even before looking at the Empire's naming conventions.

@BoneyM I'm seeing a lot of singleton votes for naming suggestions that have not garnered a lot of votes, but are pretty similar to other ones. Would it be permissible to tag them and let them know, or could you possibly make a post long enough to trigger an alert to let them know?


As for getting to know people, I think the Grand Master of the Ulficans we were fighting nearby is going to be the most valuable contact we could cultivate right now. We haven't met him, but we've fought alongside him (which should please any Ulrican greatly) and he has a lot of clout within the Empire.

[x] Grand Master Ruprecht Wulfhart

[X] Mathildes Malleable Model
[X] Mathilde's Aethyric Projection
[X] Mathilde's Multidimensional Aethyric Projection
 
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[X] King Belegar Ironhammer
[X] Head Ranger Ulthar Alriksson
[X] Grand Master Ruprecht Wulfhart


[X] Mathilde's Malleable Model
 
[X] Head Ranger Ulthar Alriksson
[X] Panoramia
[X] Marshal Titus Muggins

I dunno, I just like Ulthar. Panoramia is fun. And whatever celebrations are going on, the Halflings are likely at the center of it, overflowing with beer and food.

[X] Mirage Map

I object to slapping Mathilde's name on this thing, not because it's arrogant or whatever, but because there's a 99% chance the wizards will unofficially start calling it the Mush Map, and frankly I don't want to be anywhere near that when it happens.
 
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FlyingScanian said:
I think part of the problem is that people want to see (well, read) that. It's all fine and dandy if we're petting the doggo (wolfo?) off-screen, but then we readers don't get to read about petting the wolfo. Or interacting with the journeymanlings. Or... I think it's just those two. If the only chance we get to interact with doggo and journeymanlings is on monumentous occasions, then it will compete with socialising with the high and mighty.
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Some of this is a matter of trust. I think that BoneyM will give us opportunities to do things with both of them that are appropriate.

For example, with the Journeymanlings, I suggested above that both the Gold wizards have spells (and general insights) that would be exceptionally helpful to Mathilde when she writes up her new spell for publication. That would give a natural occasion to interact with both of them. Similarly, further up when BoneyM mentioned the skaven having hidden valleys where they grew their food, I suggested asked our Jade journeyman to produce ergot to contaminate the crops with. These would be good options we could take where we would work with them in a way we don't have to force.

Wolf will probably take a few IC months, but I suspect that we might get an option to work with the White Wolves to train Wolf, particularly if we talk to their Grand Master now.
 
Alratan said:
Thinking about what we'd talk about with people:

Belegar: he'll want to start crafting the right set of lies about today's events. He needs to make what happened sound appropriately glamorous in dwarven terms to encourage another wave of volunteers amongst the clanless and minor clans that might want to resettle, as well as sufficiently orthodox and reliable to encourage the World's Edge Holds to commit more of their regular forces to temporarily support the Expedition.

Ulthar: He'll probably want to all some more about Mathilde's magic and how the Rangers can leverage it. He's a Ranger from one of the young holds, so will be less traditional than many dwarves and can probably see the potential. Talking the spell and it's uses through with a true expert on the subject of scouting and mapping while it's creation is still fresh in her mind would hopefully be valuable. I would also be very valuable for him to have a rough idea of Mathilde's capabilities so he can advise her how to use them against Greenskins and Skaven, as he would know what countermeasures or potential weaknesses they have that she should know.

Ruprecht: wolves and their raising. For a wizard, he should approve of Mathilde, as she's a warrior who keeps a wolf, which is just about as Ulrician as a wizard can get. To make it even better, she doesn't even carry a shield or wear a helmet in battle. It would be amusingly if he tries to convert her, assuming that as she's from the southern Empire she prefers Sigmar to Ulric. As a side note, I don't think this is a problem, as my understanding is that the Empire is true polytheism, where people propitiate all the gods in the context of their relevant sphere of influence. As Ranald isn't any kind of war god, it should be perfectly appropriate to give Ulric reverence and ask for his blessing in the context of battle while still maintaining a shrine to Ranald and seeking his blessings, just as she would Shallya in the context of healing. Sigmar is the only god in the Empire with any flavour of 'you should have no other god before me' to his worship, and even that is a banned heresy. Most rich people would probably have shrines to all the major gods, as well as to theirs ancestors, relevant regional gods, and perhaps even favourite Venerated Souls. A Shadow Wizard Ulric devotee would be hilarious as well. Her Brave trait would make it appropriate as well.



I think I mentioned this above, but we already spend significant amounts of time with Wolf training him, as we took an early option with the Amber Wizards that set that.

This is one evening, and shouldn't have precedental value, as the training should continue.
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This is a celebration though. I expect most of what we're going to be doing is bragging about our war stories and listening to others brag about theirs. That and commiseration about the loss of fellow warriors.

The other stuff will probably done in the future though.

ctulhuslp said:
You can note that often even the most legendary weapons like Ghal Maraz or Elector Count swords do not have author's name on it. Because truly legendary artifacts etch the name of the creator into history without anything so narcissistic as naming the item after the creator.
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He stuck his personal Rune Mark on those weapons, the rune that he invented and proceeded to call the Master Rune of Alaric. They're not just named after Alaric he straight up signed them. Every time anyone looks at one they see his personal seal.

Fortunately weapons do tend to be named by their owner so they're not all called Alaric's super sword 1, 2 and 3 or whatever madness he'd get up to.
 
WorldSlayer said:
This is a celebration though. I expect most of what we're going to be doing is bragging about our war stories and listening to others brag about theirs. That and commiseration about the loss of fellow warriors.

The other stuff will probably done in the future though.
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This is, I feel, the time when those subjects will be first mooted, as people let their guards down and relax a bit (a very small bit for certain dwarves). They may be covered in more detail in future, but I think this is where people would hint that they're interested in talking about it, and see if each other are interested in following up. I don't think any party is just a party amongst players of this level. Even dwarf monarchs and leaders are still monarchs and leaders, and have their own flavour of politics.
 
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ctulhuslp said:
You can note that often even the most legendary weapons like Ghal Maraz or Elector Count swords do not have author's name on it. Because truly legendary artifacts etch the name of the creator into history without anything so narcissistic as naming the item after the creator.
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You remind me of a guy I saw on Tumblr who was arguing that fanartists asking to be paid for their art is against the true spirit of art, would da Vinci have crassly demanded money for the Mona Lisa? Michelangelo and his David? Raphael and the ceiling of the Sistine chapel?
Al of these were done on commission, by the by.
So. Would a true Craftsman crassly demand attention by putting their name on things?
Yes. Yes they would, because that's how they get business.
Alaric the mad had a special rune that he put on ghal maraz and the runefangs, called the rune of Alaric.
 
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Alratan said:
Some of this is a matter of trust. I think that BoneyM will give us opportunities to do things with both of them that are appropriate.
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Alratan said:
that are appropriate
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That's the thing, though. You seem to expect them to plop up once they're relevant, and by then still be 100% loyal to Mathilde, because she's "spent time with them off-screen". Meanwhile, some of us want to see that time on screen, if only to have a better grasp of who they are (and exactly how adorable Wolf is).

In the end, to me it seems like the difference between a game and a story.

(I would be perfectly fine if the next update after the big party is just wolf-time and debriefing/socialising with our journeymanlings, with barely any choices to make, even. I just want them to have some on screen time, and not just hang on the wall as "+10 to this kind of roll"/"provides these options"... but my problem is that I want that with almost all the characters. Darn you, BoneyM, you write too good :V )
 
[X] Grand Master Sigwald Kriegersen
[X] Grand Master Ruprecht Wulfhart
[X] Marksman Codrin Petrescu

[X] Mathilde's Aetherial Projection
 
FlyingScanian said:
That's the thing, though. You seem to expect them to plop up once they're relevant, and by then still be 100% loyal to Mathilde, because she's "spent time with them off-screen". Meanwhile, some of us want to see that time on screen, if only to have a better grasp of who they are (and exactly how adorable Wolf is).

In the end, to me it seems like the difference between a game and a story.

(I would be perfectly fine if the next update after the big party is just wolf-time and debriefing/socialising with our journeymanlings, with barely any choices to make, even. I just want them to have some on screen time, and not just hang on the wall as "+10 to this kind of roll"/"provides these options"... but my problem is that I want that with almost all the characters. Darn you, BoneyM, you write too good :V )
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On the way to Karak Eight Peaks, Mathilde spent a substantial amount of time with the Journeymanlings (probably the bulk of her interactions) , and invested time in Wolf. That made sense as it was an appropriate time for her to do so, and she had useful activities to do with them.

Now, by contrast, it's the appropriate time for her to mingle with the senior officers of the expedition, not with her own 'people'. These are people that she hasn't spent significant time with off-screen, because she hasn't created the justification to do so on-screen, which she's already done for the Journeymanlings and Wolf.
 
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I'm confused by the arguments against Wolf. I've taken that option to be complementary to the others. I.e. now that it is safe, we can get Wolf from the daycare and then go visit all the other important people. From the posts it seems others understand it as mutually exclusive uses of Mathilde's time?

Given that Wolf is only the 4th or so most voted option, I'd also think the others would take precedence above Wolf anyway. So even if she cannot visit Ironhammer with her pet in tow, any time conflict should be solved in favour of the King.

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Speaking of votes: Does the tallying program recheck old posts? I've just been editing my first vote. Will that be picked up by the counter, or should I make a new post for the new votes?
 
[X] Mathilde's Multidimensional Aethyric Projection
[X] Multidimensional Aethyric Projection

[X] King Belegar Ironhammer
[X] Head Ranger Ulthar Alriksson
[X] Grand Master Ruprecht Wulfhart
 
[X] Master Runelord Kragg the Grim
[X] Maximilian de Gaynesford
[X] King Belegar Ironhammer
[X] Grand Master Ruprecht Wulfhart
[X] Head Ranger Ulthar Alriksson

[X] Mathilde's Aethyric Projection
[X] Mathildes Malleable Model

We should grumpy tune lord our spell, he makes it in runes, we get super rep bonus for our help. Max could try to do it with metal that other people could move and touch, other guys are the leaders I like.
 
torac said:
Speaking of votes: Does the tallying program recheck old posts? I've just been editing my first vote. Will that be picked up by the counter, or should I make a new post for the new votes?
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The vote tally program checks your most recent post with votes in it, and only that post (it overwrites any older vote posts). So you don't need to go back and edit any posts if you don't want to, just place your full and most recent vote in a new post. However, if you have half a vote in one post, and half in another, it's not going to combine them; whichever came last is the only half that'll be counted.

The program also does not count votes in quotation boxes, as I've seen some people worry about.
 
torac said:
I'm confused by the arguments against Wolf. I've taken that option to be complementary to the others. I.e. now that it is safe, we can get Wolf from the daycare and then go visit all the other important people. From the posts it seems others understand it as mutually exclusive uses of Mathilde's time?

Given that Wolf is only the 4th or so most voted option, I'd also think the others would take precedence above Wolf anyway. So even if she cannot visit Ironhammer with her pet in tow, any time conflict should be solved in favour of the King.

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Speaking of votes: Does the tallying program recheck old posts? I've just been editing my first vote. Will that be picked up by the counter, or should I make a new post for the new votes?
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Top 3 win.

Also the votecounter works by tallying the votes from the last time you voted in a post. So yes you can just edit your first post and it will recalculate with the changes you made to your vote. However, if you make another vote in a new post later then it will no longer tally votes from the earlier post.
 
torac said:
I'm confused by the arguments against Wolf. I've taken that option to be complementary to the others. I.e. now that it is safe, we can get Wolf from the daycare and then go visit all the other important people. From the posts it seems others understand it as mutually exclusive uses of Mathilde's time?

Given that Wolf is only the 4th or so most voted option, I'd also think the others would take precedence above Wolf anyway. So even if she cannot visit Ironhammer with her pet in tow, any time conflict should be solved in favour of the King.
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The top three votes are the people Mathilde will spend time with. If Wolf wins he displaces someone else.
 
[X] Master Runelord Kragg the Grim

[X] Mathilde's Malleable Model
[X] Mathilde's Aethyric Projection
 
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Is the spell even that good to warrent putting our name on it.

Of the examples shown most of those are pretty top teir spells or runes that have the creatures name on it.

Maybe we should save our name for something Grander?

Just a thought.
 
Atam the Ork said:
Is the spell even that good to warrent putting our name on it.

Of the examples shown most of those are pretty top teir spells or runes that have the creatures name on it.

Maybe we should save our name for something Grander?

Just a thought.
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Our name is not a finite resource. We can just keep putting it on things. We do not run out of Name.
 
For names, as people can approval vote, can I really ask people to consider adding Mathilde's Multidimensional Aethyric Projection to their vote. The reasons have been discussed before, but the acronym of it being Mathilde's MAP makes it truly great, in a very Warhammer kind of way. It's the kind of wordplay that earlier Warhammer Fantasy was full of.

Just think of generations of stuffy lecturing magisters telling off their apprentices for using the acronym rather than the full name.
 
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