NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
Okkam's mind-razor
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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[X] Marksman Codrin Petrescu
I am not entirely sure whether now is the best time to do so, but we should definitely cultivate Codrin Petrescu as a contact, maybe even friend, should we ever intend to return to Stirland. Of all the current leaders of the expedition, he is the one most likely to return to Stirland, or even his homeland of Sylvania after the war, where his position as the warleader of a group of men who became wealthy on this aventure will make him a household name and probably one of the most influential Sylvanians alive.
Having the full support of a man that the average Sylvanian can consider one of their own, and a war hero at the same time, will make it so much easier to work within that blighted province. He is someone that speaks their language, and can serve as a living example of what working together with Stirland can gain them. Not to mention that going by historical examples, the men who buy themselves a farm out of the wages for this campaign will be thankful, and form a powerful, widespread net of informants and potential recruits, if their former general asks them to.
I am not entirely sure whether now is the best time to do so, but we should definitely cultivate Codrin Petrescu as a contact, maybe even friend, should we ever intend to return to Stirland. Of all the current leaders of the expedition, he is the one most likely to return to Stirland, or even his homeland of Sylvania after the war, where his position as the warleader of a group of men who became wealthy on this aventure will make him a household name and probably one of the most influential Sylvanians alive.
Having the full support of a man that the average Sylvanian can consider one of their own, and a war hero at the same time, will make it so much easier to work within that blighted province. He is someone that speaks their language, and can serve as a living example of what working together with Stirland can gain them. Not to mention that going by historical examples, the men who buy themselves a farm out of the wages for this campaign will be thankful, and form a powerful, widespread net of informants and potential recruits, if their former general asks them to.
No no no we Do that with our inevitable (hubris what's that) battle magic spell doing that with petty and lesser magic is just gauche.
[X] King Belegar Ironhammer
[X] Wolf
[X] Maximilian de Gaynesford
[X] Mathildes Malleable Model
[X] Mathilde's Mapping Mirage
[X] Mathilde's Multidimensional Aethyric Projection
[X] Mathilde's Mirage Map
[X] Mathilde's Aethyric Projection
[X] Mathilde's Aetherial Projection
[X] Multidimensional Aethyric Projection
[X] Mathilde's Aetheyric Projection
Inventing spells that are USEFUL isn't easy. And this is immensely useful. We want brand recognition here.
Every journeyman on military attachment duty wants it. Every journeyman trying to explain a 3d structure they found on scouting wants it.
What it says about us is WAY better than a battle magic used to kill thousands
[X] Wolf
[X] Maximilian de Gaynesford
[X] Mathildes Malleable Model
[X] Mathilde's Mapping Mirage
[X] Mathilde's Multidimensional Aethyric Projection
[X] Mathilde's Mirage Map
[X] Mathilde's Aethyric Projection
[X] Mathilde's Aetherial Projection
[X] Multidimensional Aethyric Projection
[X] Mathilde's Aetheyric Projection
Inventing spells that are USEFUL isn't easy. And this is immensely useful. We want brand recognition here.
Every journeyman on military attachment duty wants it. Every journeyman trying to explain a 3d structure they found on scouting wants it.
What it says about us is WAY better than a battle magic used to kill thousands
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- Location
- Austria
[X] King Belegar Ironhammer
[X] Maximilian de Gaynesford
[X] Wolf
[X] Miniature Magical Map
Logic for people: Belegar has best grasp of strategic situation and further priorities.
We need to keep keeping tabs on journeymanlings, it's literally our job here - one of them.
Wolf is a sweetie and we need to cuddle him.
[X] Maximilian de Gaynesford
[X] Wolf
[X] Miniature Magical Map
Logic for people: Belegar has best grasp of strategic situation and further priorities.
We need to keep keeping tabs on journeymanlings, it's literally our job here - one of them.
Wolf is a sweetie and we need to cuddle him.
- Location
- Internet, The
Allow me to use facts and logic (or at least reasoned speculation) to argue that Mathilde should include her name in her spells:
Remember how @BoneyM said that Spell Masteries may be extremely difficult or impossible to replicate by others? It stands to reason that this would apply to impulsively and intuitively created spells even more. This whole Minimap Spell was only possible at all because of her Fog of War trait and created unconsciously. If one were to speculated more widely, the manner in which it works (stable over time, pinned to the air) might even be related to her background as an enchanter and on Mathilde's Matrix.
Note also, that if it was even half as easy for wizards to create spell as it has been for Mathilde so far, then at least every Wizard Lord should have 1-2 new spells under their belt. This does not account for all the spells translated from other Winds, as people seem to think the Minimap Spell can be. This contradicts that there are only ~20 actual spells for Grey Wizards in the list, which includes whatever magics the Elves gave them at the beginning.
It is my conclusion then, that all creating this spell does is proving that this is a possible application of Ulgu, and showing one specific way this could happen. I assume it would take generations of Magisters researching, simplifying and generalizing the application for it to become a proper spell any Ulgu Wizard can learn.
This would also fit some of the other things we know:
1) Mathilde learned spells from scrolls. She had to write a whole book to explain her Matrix.
2) @BoneyM said that the other spells may either not be around at this time, or may not be widely distributed yet. This may be explained by those spells only being there in their "individual" proto forms.
3) Human Wizards are known to adapt themselves to the Winds in individual ways to use them. This does not correspond well to standardized spells.
4) I think it works well with the lore of studious wizards sitting in a college and some things not being possible to a wandering adventurer: If deciphering spells is important work that takes many years (and may bear no fruit), then this might be one of the things wizards do if they sit at home.
---
A consequence of this being true in this world would be that Wizard Lords (and some Magisters) may have personal spells outside the known spell list. I think this would fit the world well, since @BoneyM has already done something similar with Kragg being able to make items outside the normal rules. If a conservative dwarf can do it, it would stand to reason that the same applies to wild wizards…
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To sum it up: Mathilde should include her name because this just her individual spell. If others decipher it enough to turn it into proper spell, then it could get a simplified name.
Remember how @BoneyM said that Spell Masteries may be extremely difficult or impossible to replicate by others? It stands to reason that this would apply to impulsively and intuitively created spells even more. This whole Minimap Spell was only possible at all because of her Fog of War trait and created unconsciously. If one were to speculated more widely, the manner in which it works (stable over time, pinned to the air) might even be related to her background as an enchanter and on Mathilde's Matrix.
Note also, that if it was even half as easy for wizards to create spell as it has been for Mathilde so far, then at least every Wizard Lord should have 1-2 new spells under their belt. This does not account for all the spells translated from other Winds, as people seem to think the Minimap Spell can be. This contradicts that there are only ~20 actual spells for Grey Wizards in the list, which includes whatever magics the Elves gave them at the beginning.
It is my conclusion then, that all creating this spell does is proving that this is a possible application of Ulgu, and showing one specific way this could happen. I assume it would take generations of Magisters researching, simplifying and generalizing the application for it to become a proper spell any Ulgu Wizard can learn.
This would also fit some of the other things we know:
1) Mathilde learned spells from scrolls. She had to write a whole book to explain her Matrix.
2) @BoneyM said that the other spells may either not be around at this time, or may not be widely distributed yet. This may be explained by those spells only being there in their "individual" proto forms.
3) Human Wizards are known to adapt themselves to the Winds in individual ways to use them. This does not correspond well to standardized spells.
4) I think it works well with the lore of studious wizards sitting in a college and some things not being possible to a wandering adventurer: If deciphering spells is important work that takes many years (and may bear no fruit), then this might be one of the things wizards do if they sit at home.
---
A consequence of this being true in this world would be that Wizard Lords (and some Magisters) may have personal spells outside the known spell list. I think this would fit the world well, since @BoneyM has already done something similar with Kragg being able to make items outside the normal rules. If a conservative dwarf can do it, it would stand to reason that the same applies to wild wizards…
---
To sum it up: Mathilde should include her name because this just her individual spell. If others decipher it enough to turn it into proper spell, then it could get a simplified name.
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Algalon
Herald of the Titans
- Location
- Celestial Planetarium
[x] King Belegar Ironhammer
[x] Head Ranger Ulthar Alriksson
[x] Grand Master Ruprecht Wulfhart
[X] Mathilde's Multidimensional Aethyric Projection
We fought with Belgar and worked with Ulthar, so I think it is appropriate to celebrate the victory with both of them. That they are both VIPs in the army and the future leadership of the Hold is also of significance. Besides that, I agree that opening up contacts with fellow Imperials is a good idea, especially with somebody as high ranked as a Master of a highly decorated Knightly Order.
Sticking with putting Mathilde's name in the spell. It's a pretty nifty thing, just like the Matrix, so I think a little big of vanity is allowed here. Although simple, it still has enormous battlefield use for what is essentially a cantrip. Generals would clamor to have even an apprentice mage on their council if they can cast it, so we want to make sure everybody knows Mathilde came up with it.
[x] Head Ranger Ulthar Alriksson
[x] Grand Master Ruprecht Wulfhart
[X] Mathilde's Multidimensional Aethyric Projection
We fought with Belgar and worked with Ulthar, so I think it is appropriate to celebrate the victory with both of them. That they are both VIPs in the army and the future leadership of the Hold is also of significance. Besides that, I agree that opening up contacts with fellow Imperials is a good idea, especially with somebody as high ranked as a Master of a highly decorated Knightly Order.
Sticking with putting Mathilde's name in the spell. It's a pretty nifty thing, just like the Matrix, so I think a little big of vanity is allowed here. Although simple, it still has enormous battlefield use for what is essentially a cantrip. Generals would clamor to have even an apprentice mage on their council if they can cast it, so we want to make sure everybody knows Mathilde came up with it.
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For the spell name, I wouldn't use superlatives myself.
It's not really 'magnificent' or 'meticulous' unless it does its own scouting or autoupdates IMO.
I don't think it does anything a sandtable wouldn't, strategically speaking, but for tunnels, cities, and quickly getting one's head around complex 3d layouts it'd be worth its caster's weight in gold.
Characters...
[x] Head Ranger Ulthar Alriksson
An AAR/talk about how things went/general mutual backpatting about a job well done might be interesting.
[x] Thane Skaroki Grimbrow
I have no idea who he is, but don't mind finding out.
[x] Master Runelord Kragg the Grim
He keeps being mentioned, but I don't think there's ever been a direct interaction with him that lasted more than a few moments.
[x] Grand Master Ruprecht Wulfhart
+
[x] Asbern and Seija
As far as I know, Mathilde has never been shown interacting with an Ulrican. Plus, WOLF KNIGHTS and how they've been getting on together, what it was like in the hangars in a bit more detail etc.
[x] Johann
Has he found anything neat?
[x] Engineer Durin Wutokri
How's the artillery-ing going? Not sure what that bolt-thrower's supposed to be, but talking to an artillery specialist would give Boney a good opening to allude to it.
[x] Marksman Codrin Petrescu
Curious about how his 'project' is going, in a 'watching the train-wreck' kind of way.
[X] Marshal Titus Muggins
Not sure how he's been getting on.
[x] Wolf
WOLF
It's not really 'magnificent' or 'meticulous' unless it does its own scouting or autoupdates IMO.
I don't think it does anything a sandtable wouldn't, strategically speaking, but for tunnels, cities, and quickly getting one's head around complex 3d layouts it'd be worth its caster's weight in gold.
Characters...
[x] Head Ranger Ulthar Alriksson
An AAR/talk about how things went/general mutual backpatting about a job well done might be interesting.
[x] Thane Skaroki Grimbrow
I have no idea who he is, but don't mind finding out.
[x] Master Runelord Kragg the Grim
He keeps being mentioned, but I don't think there's ever been a direct interaction with him that lasted more than a few moments.
[x] Grand Master Ruprecht Wulfhart
+
[x] Asbern and Seija
As far as I know, Mathilde has never been shown interacting with an Ulrican. Plus, WOLF KNIGHTS and how they've been getting on together, what it was like in the hangars in a bit more detail etc.
[x] Johann
Has he found anything neat?
[x] Engineer Durin Wutokri
How's the artillery-ing going? Not sure what that bolt-thrower's supposed to be, but talking to an artillery specialist would give Boney a good opening to allude to it.
[x] Marksman Codrin Petrescu
Curious about how his 'project' is going, in a 'watching the train-wreck' kind of way.
[X] Marshal Titus Muggins
Not sure how he's been getting on.
[x] Wolf
WOLF
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NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
I'm pretty sure that's very much intentional on his part.
- Location
- Austria
The map is only as useful as tactical acumen of wizard, in a way; without good spatial imagination, I am not sure it would be of _that_ much use to people who do not possess a weird combination of magical, spying and warfare skills that Mathilde has?
So, you know, better not to hype it up all that much?
So, you know, better not to hype it up all that much?
There's been opportunities to talk with him before and people have never gone for it before, and he seems like quite a character.
- Location
- United States of America
Unless the Wizard is making the tactical decisions for the force in question, then their skill in tactics is moot. The Wizard would need good spacial imagination, or at the very least develop some ability to take a mental picture and project that picture through ulgu, but those skills can be learned with practice.
What it really needs is the ability to take in information in a written form, and transform that information into a picture. To use this spell well would certainly require skill in that aspect, but that skill can be learned with practice.
Do keep in mind part of wizarding is learnibg how to build and manage complex structures in your mind. The spell makes it easier because it 'saves' in visible form.
You don't actually have any evidence that wizards aren't creating spells. Just that they're not subsequently being spread throughout the whole College. There would be a lot of wizards for whom that's too much trouble to bother with.
This conclusion is disproved by the existence of standardised spells with their creators' names still present.
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- Location
- Austria
If a warlord has to explain concepts of "flanking" and "encircling" to the wizard each time, or to point each damn tunnel or patch of trees (in forest fight) or hill instead of being able to communicate fast and efficient, then the value of map such as this decreases quite seriously, maybe to the point of being slower than warlord/general just painting it themselves.
True, but translating instructions and reports from scouts into useful and actionable information requires, at the very least, knowing what information is useful to war leaders and in what format it's best presented.
As a small example, notice how Mathilde remembered both Imperial and Dwarven mapping colour conventions for enemy forces (red and green respectively). It's very much a kind of information some scholarly wizard who rarely fought in war would not really remember with such ease.
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
The warfare part can be provided by the actual field commander. And all grey wizards are to some degree wizard/spy hybrids, fieldcraft is a mandatory class after all.
- Location
- Austria
Depends on timeframe.
Without Mathilde being quick to read the tides of battle and translate it to the map, value would have been quite smaller, because by the time they explained stuff to each other it would have been too late to act upon it.
Wizards with experience of spycraft and working in the army HQ or so should indeed find a lot of use for the spell though.
Map is not the only usage though: we could probably quickly project, for example, org chart of enemy organization, schematics of some tool or other visualizations. So maybe naming it "map" is a misnomer, come to think of it.
