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I never thought I would say this in a quest, but I'm starting to find the Seed belt combo a bit much. When you need multiple elite hero npc's with in theory higher stats to pull a mutual kill the fight economy might be broken.

When 20 gobos have a better chance then some greater demons there's a problem.
I don't think the belt is an instant-kill. It can't be dodged but I'm pretty sure it can be resisted by enemies with high toughness.
And regardless of whether the belt is an instant unpreventable wound or not, there are critters out there that have enough wounds to just whale on Mathilde till she is dead-dead. Like Dragons, or Khornate Greater Daemons, and I would expect that magical protections ala what Lords of Change can come up with would keep them alive.
 
And, despite our current occupation, we're not actually a Warhammer Fantasy Battle figurine on a tabletop.
The usual narrative 1d100 engine we're almost always engaging with can be much more fluid in its interpretations.

I think that's a large part of the appeal of this quest imo, not only is it a great quest for it's quest elements, but Mathilde's a really well fleshed out, three dimensional character:
Hear, hear. Total agreement.
"She's not honest, but she rarely engages in small deceptions so she usually appears honest. She's not quite open-minded (though better than most in the Empire), but she keeps her thoughts to herself in a way that appears open-minded. She's not quite honourable, but she's loyal. And she's willing to work around the most troublesome parts of non-human mindsets, rather than trying to fight them or getting annoyed by them."
You've given this considerable thought, @BoneyM :) Imperfect, nuanced, relatable and engaging protagonist.
 
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Well, we haven't run into anyone wielding magic items yet, though the Goblin Warboss may have had some that didn't help against our attack.

More than that, TT is NOT accurate towards lore at all.
My worry is more about the entertainment then lore or TT stuff.

It's fun right now to walk around with the biggest stick, (expect Kragg) but the plot might have to get to a over the top place for us to get challenged in a one on one or it's just going to be swarms
 
I never thought I would say this in a quest, but I'm starting to find the Seed belt combo a bit much. When you need multiple elite hero npc's with in theory higher stats to pull a mutual kill the fight economy might be broken.

When 20 gobos have a better chance then some greater demons there's a problem.
It's actually far from it.

It worked now because not only all the hits wounded, but the Assassin was bereft of any magical items, some of which might have prevented the belt hits, but there are plenty of things which are much harder to wound than a Skaven, and have more wounds besides.

Mathilde got geeked in half a round.

A weapon with a Rune of Parrying, and/or a talisman with a strong (4+) Ward save would have helped tremendously.
 
To be fair, it's only an adequate shield against ordinary foes with ordinary panoplies. The moment someone comes at her with Heroic Killing Blow and the statblock of a blender, she's going to find herself fine red misted in a hurry, and enemies with a proper magic item rig are going to tilt the scales real quick.

What her build discourages is someone just grabbing a low cost thug teleporting in and ripping her to shreds at a low point cost. Which means that she's in that sweet spot of being too tough for ordinary units and heroes to win, and requires too much investment in countering her specifically to have to worry about a tailored counter in most armies, since something tailored to geek Mathilde would be better aimed at actual army leadership instead of a super expensive cockroach of a Hero.
 
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My worry is more about the entertainment then lore or TT stuff.

It's fun right now to walk around with the biggest stick, (expect Kragg) but the plot might have to get to a over the top place for us to get challenged in a one on one or it's just going to be swarms
Mmm not necessarily.

Its rather feasible for a bad series of rolls in a big 1 on 1 duel between Mathilde and a Big Name Scary Person to be interpreted as the cutting the belt from her body. Or other options which don't involve dice such as it being stolen before hand by an observant Eshin assassin and then they go in to kill her.

There's also magical protections to consider, which we haven't run into yet and don't know anything about how those actually interact with the effects of the Rune of Rancour. Magical Ward Saves are a pretty decent possibility to find on Important People and running into folks carrying big wads of magic defense in an ancient despoiled Karak is pretty par for the course.

Also what Alectai and TotallyNotEvil have said. All those Belt Wounds are still rolled, and have a chance inherently to simply fail.
 
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To be fair, it's only an adequate shield against ordnary foes. The moment someone comes at her with Heroic Killing Blow and the statblock of a blender, she's going to find herself fine red misted in a hurry.
Heroic Killing Blow isn't common at all. Killing Blow, however, which she qualifies for, is...at the very least far less rare than HKB.
 
To be fair, it's only an adequate shield against ordnary foes. The moment someone comes at her with Heroic Killing Blow and the statblock of a blender, she's going to find herself fine red misted in a hurry.
Doesn't need Heroic KB, I believe. That's for Cavalry/Chariots/Monsters.

Fun fact: literally every Bloodletter has Killing Blow.
 
Heroic Killing Blow isn't common at all. Killing Blow, however, which she qualifies for, is...at the very least far less rare than HKB.

Point being said, Mathilde is weak against "Okay, all those wounds and toughness? None of it matters because I tag you once and you're dead", and against something with non dodge/parry ward saves (Basically ubiquitous at the higher levels of play), and so forth.

The point I'm trying to make is "She's too cockroach tier for cheap gank units to kill her because the combination of counterattacks vs Wounds and her own combat skills mean she's liable to win first, but too low profile for a suitably kitted herokiller or combat Lord to single her out when they could be hitting key enemy units as opposed to an auxiliary who's mostly only good in the pre-battle phases anyway."
 
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And regardless of whether the belt is an instant unpreventable wound or not, there are critters out there that have enough wounds to just whale on Mathilde till she is dead-dead. Like Dragons, or Khornate Greater Daemons, and I would expect that magical protections ala what Lords of Change can come up with would keep them alive.
See, my problem is that you have to bring out the big guns (dragons knornates demons etc) instead of hero's. We are at the dragon stage before arch mage...

And, despite our current occupation, we're not actually a Warhammer Fantasy Battle figurine on a tabletop.
The usual narrative 1d100 engine we're almost always engaging with can be much more fluid in its interpretations.


Hear, hear. Total agreement.

You've given this considerable thought, @BoneyM :) Imperfect, nuanced, relatable and
I get you, but we still have the static "if we die we come back" and "you share my damage" that's pretty hard to get around in a d100 game. I would almost argue that it's actually even more powerful in a narrative then in a TT because you can't go "this is the lore but actually..."
 
See, my problem is that you have to bring out the big guns (dragons knornates demons etc) instead of hero's. We are at the dragon stage before arch mage...
See what else everyone else brought up. I picked those because they were the ones I knew best, when I just want to brute force something.

We are hilariously *not* dragon stage. She'd just go splat.
 
There was a dwarf novel where the setting was Zhufbar IIRC, because aside from settling the grudge with a noble human house whose ancestors didnt deliver the firewood as fuel for dwarfen machinery (killing every last human down to women and children), it also focused on dwarfen politics and intrigue. Its a great read and i'd like to link the title as soon as i find it.

Edit: one of the best scenes is where the thane killed a skaven assassin using his pillow! (Pillow is composed of small fine round stones)
 
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You guys see now why I said I am more worried about Big Bads than hordes?

Mmm.

When you get down to it, the issue with Mathilde is that she does the most work before the battle even starts. Once she's actually on the battlefield, she's pretty much just a cockroach with a counterattack and a barrel of Wounds, and falls apart against any dedicated herokiller (Or, as mentioned, literally anything with Killing Blow, since every time they proc it, she loses a 'Life' on the spot).

Yeah, she's critically weak against a properly kitted herokiller or a combat Lord, but that's not the point, she's valuable in the sense that she can go "Flip a coin and roll a die, set up units are killed at the start of battle as long as Mathilde succeeded in her Subversive Measures". She's basically a super overcosted Hero Unit that's valuable for what they do at the start of the game rather than what they do in the actual battle.
 
Alright I'll concede for now, but I'm still worried that it will be awhile before we get to these killing blow units. Or the DM will have to up the anti to a place that is a bit weird for use to get to these units.
 
Mmm.

When you get down to it, the issue with Mathilde is that she does the most work before the battle even starts. Once she's actually on the battlefield, she's pretty much just a cockroach with a counterattack and a barrel of Wounds, and falls apart against any dedicated herokiller (Or, as mentioned, literally anything with Killing Blow, since every time they proc it, she loses a 'Life' on the spot).

Yeah, she's critically weak against a properly kitted herokiller or a combat Lord, but that's not the point, she's valuable in the sense that she can go "Flip a coin and roll a die, set up units are killed at the start of battle as long as Mathilde succeeded in her Subversive Measures". She's basically a super overcosted Hero Unit that's valuable for what they do at the start of the game rather than what they do in the actual battle.
Our ambitions mean that, sooner or later, we will be back in the battlefield, and against ever nastier opponents to boot.

Hopefully we will have Battle Magic and cast Mindrazor on ourselves before having to charge a Bloodthirster, but we have to be ready to fend off at least this level of opponent (the assassin), because Mathilde is immeasurably more valuable to us than a generic wizard is on a TT match, and often things won't even be as simple as an open battlefield.
 
All others have said about Mathilde's combat limitations applies, but the other side of the coin is that outright combat normally means Mathilde's made a mistake. Even on this Expedition there's only been a couple of outright battles, and the rest of the time she's been scouting or infiltrating or investigating. Her combat abilities mean she can take larger risks, but if it comes down to who can kill the other the fastest, Mathilde stuffed up.
 
Alright I'll concede for now, but I'm still worried that it will be awhile before we get to these killing blow units. Or the DM will have to up the anti to a place that is a bit weird for use to get to these units.
It pointedly didn't take someone with KB to do it.

The Master Assassin is nothing compared to the nastier shit on the Skaven book. I'm expecting a Verminlord before we are through.

In any case, all of this makes me throughly satisfied that all the arguing it took for using all the college favors for the Seed was more than worth it.
 
Alright I'll concede for now, but I'm still worried that it will be awhile before we get to these killing blow units. Or the DM will have to up the anti to a place that is a bit weird for use to get to these units.
A neat thing there's actually units of Goblins on the table top that can be inserted into Goblin hordes called Nasty Skulkers and they have Killing Blow on the first turn.

Goblins: Your army's quintessential tarpit. At 3 points per model base, Goblins can be fielded in insane numbers. Can be upgraded with Nasty Skulkers which are kind of a mixed bag. With three attacks and Killing Blow on the turn they are revealed them, they can be a real pain in the ass to an opponent who expected to run heavily armored knights into the puny goblins and take no casualty. On the other hand, Killing Blow only works for a single turn (a shame) and does nothing to many unit types such as chariots or monstrous infantry. In fact the most interesting use of Nasty Skulkers is to use them to displace rank-and-file models. With three Skulkers and two cheap Goblin Heroes in a 5-wide unit, the opponent will be forced to allocate wounds, most likely causing the opposing force to waste attacks.
 
A point of counter offer, having the POV character in a quest being hard to kill can be useful for storytelling. Mathilde being unusually tough for her power level means that she can encounter something way outside her power level, get pasted in a round of combat, and run the hell away (which Mathilde is pretty good at).

This let's the QM show that there are bigger, badder guys out there, without just killing the POV character.
 
And I was going to do a Bloodthister, but got lazy due the extra rules :V
I can do that.

Dame Mathilde Weber
Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 4  4  4 5 3 4 2 8

Greatsword (+2S, -2I)
Aethyric Armor (4+)
Dread Aspect
Horse provides 4+ ward save before armor, if it activates twice per turn horse is removed

BLOODTHIRSTER OF KHORNE!
Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
8 10 10 6 6 5 9 6 9
Daemon of Khorne
Daemonic
Terror
MR 2
Fly
Large target
That's the most killy of killy daemons, except named ones. His terrors makes him immune to Terror himself (but Mathilde is immune to his terror due to Dread Aspect)
Fly and Large target are irrelevant
Daemon of Khorne is irrelevant, let's say that neither combatant charged
Daemonic gives him 5+ Ward save
I don't want to bother with WoM rolls, so I won't.

Bloodthirster WS 10 vs Mathilde WS 4, To-Hits are 3+ vs 5+, respectively
Bloodthirster S6 T6 vs Mathilde S6 T5, To-Wounds are 3+ vs 4+.

Armor saves: none

Wards: Bloodthirster has 5+, Mathilde has 4+ pseudo-ward due to horse

Mathilde is thouroughly outmatched
(That is a long one) (much shorter after I fixed my derps)
Round 1
Bloodthirster
Atttacks (3+): 2 3 5 3 6 3: 5 hits
Wounding (3+): 3 2 1 4 2: 2 wounds
Horse Ward (4+) 5 2: 1 wound saved, horse alive
Righteous Retribution (S8, 2+ to Wound): 4: 1 wound
Daemon ward save (5+): 4: failed (daemon at 4)

Mathilde
Atttacks (5+): 6 1 4: 1 hit
Wounding (4+): 2: 0 wounds
Ward save (5+): not required
Shadow tendrils (1d3#, 1d6S): 2hits of S4
Wounding (6+): 3 4: 0 wounds
Ward save (5+): not required

Combat resolution: draw! neither rolls break tests


Round 2
Bloodthirster
Atttacks (3+): 5 1 4 6 2 2: 3 hits
Wounding (3+): 4 4 6: 3 wounds
Horse Ward (4+) 6 1 3: 1 wound saved, horse alive, Mathilde dead
Righteous Retribution (S8, 2+ to Wound): 2 3: 2 wounds
Daemon ward save (5+): 1, 3: both failed (at 2)

Seed activates! 3 charges remaining! Daemon is surprised by this event!

Mathilde
Atttacks (5+):2 3 4: 0 hits
Wounding (4+): 0 wounds
Ward save (5+): not required
Shadow tendrils (1d3#, 1d6S): 1hit of S1 (this is not Mathilde's day...)
Wounding (6+): 6: 1 wound
Ward save (5+): 6: wound saved

Combat resolution: Mathilde loses this round, takes break test. She is stubborn, so this is unmodded LD.
Break: 2d6=4, passed

Actually, it is a draw now

Round 3
Bloodthirster
Atttacks (3+): 6 5 5 2 6 6 : 5 hits
Wounding (3+): 6 1 2 4 6: 3 wounds
Horse Ward (4+) 3 5 3: 1 wound saved, horse alive, Mathilde at 1 wound
Righteous Retribution (S8, 2+ to Wound): 3 6: 2 wounds
Daemon ward save (5+): 2 5: 1 failed, 1 saved (at 1)


Mathilde
Atttacks (5+):6 3 3 : 1 hit
Wounding (4+): 3: 0 wounds
Ward save (5+): not required
Shadow tendrils (1d3#, 1d6S): 3hits of S2
Wounding (6+): 1 3 6: 1 wound
Ward save (5+): 3: failed (Dead!)


Mathilde: did my shadow just kill a Bloodthirster? o_O

4 wounds from belt, 1 from shadow tendrils. Sword didn't actually do anything.

Everything below that line didn't actually happen. I misread Daemon's wounds (9 instead of 5) and used wrong S for Belt's hits. That made initial variant of the fight much longer.



Combat resolution: draw! neither rolls break tests

Round 4
Bloodthirster
Atttacks (3+): 6 5 4 1 2 4 : 4 hits
Wounding (3+): 1 5 3 2: 2 wounds
Horse Ward (4+) 3 3: Mathilde dies to first hit, second is wasted, belt activates only once
Righteous Retribution (S6, 4+ to Wound): 1: 0 wounds
Daemon ward save (5+): not required

Seed activates! 2 charges remaining! Daemon is annoyed by this event!

Mathilde
Atttacks (5+):6 2 1: 1 hit
Wounding (4+): 4: 1 wound
Ward save (5+): 2: failed (at 5)
Shadow tendrils (1d3#, 1d6S): 1hit of S3
Wounding (6+): 2: 0 wounds
Ward save (5+): not required

Combat resolution: draw? (daemon technically dealt 2 unsaved wounds, but 1 was overkill)

Round 5
Bloodthirster
Atttacks (3+): 2 1 2 2 2 2 : 0 hits (Ranald, is that you?)
Wounding (3+): : 0 wounds
Horse Ward (4+) : not required
Righteous Retribution (S6, 4+ to Wound): :
Daemon ward save (5+): not required


Mathilde
Atttacks (5+):5 5 1: 2 hits
Wounding (4+): 5 4: 2 wounds
Ward save (5+): 3 3: failed (at 3) (Ranald...)
Shadow tendrils (1d3#, 1d6S): 2hits of S2
Wounding (6+): 1 3: 0 wounds
Ward save (5+): not required

Combat resolution: Ranald Mathilde wins by 2! Daemon takes instability test!
2d6: 3+2=5. That's lower than 9-2=7, so Ranald didn't manage to smite him

Round 6
Bloodthirster
Atttacks (3+): 5 3 4 3 6 6 : 6 hits (Luck ran out)
Wounding (3+): 2 6 2 5 2 1: 2 wounds (or not)
Horse Ward (4+) : 6 6: 2 wounds saved, horse is dead (we will remember you!)
Righteous Retribution (S6, 4+ to Wound): :
Daemon ward save (5+): not required

Mathilde
Atttacks (5+):1 6 1: 1 hit
Wounding (4+): 4: 1 wound
Ward save (5+): 5: wound saved
Shadow tendrils (1d3#, 1d6S): 2hits of S1
Wounding (6+): 6 1: 1 wound
Ward save (5+): 4: failed (at 2)

Combat resolution: Mathilde wins by 1! Daemon takes instability test!
2d6: 5+4=9. Failure by 1, Daemon takes 1 wound without saves! (he is at 1 wound!)

Round 7
Bloodthirster
Atttacks (3+): 1 3 1 2 3 6 : 3 hits
Wounding (3+): 3 5 6: 3 wounds
Horse Ward (4+) : horse is already dead
Righteous Retribution (S6, 4+ to Wound):5 1 3: 1 wound
Daemon ward save (5+): 2: failed, Daemon dead

Seed activates! 1 charge remaining!
 
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A point of counter offer, having the POV character in a quest being hard to kill can be useful for storytelling. Mathilde being unusually tough for her power level means that she can encounter something way outside her power level, get pasted in a round of combat, and run the hell away (which Mathilde is pretty good at).

This let's the QM show that there are bigger, badder guys out there, without just killing the POV character.
I've been thinking that's half the reason we got a chance of having something as great as the Seed at all.
 
All others have said about Mathilde's combat limitations applies, but the other side of the coin is that outright combat normally means Mathilde's made a mistake. Even on this Expedition there's only been a couple of outright battles, and the rest of the time she's been scouting or infiltrating or investigating. Her combat abilities mean she can take larger risks, but if it comes down to who can kill the other the fastest, Mathilde stuffed up.
Whaaat? The illusionist and stealth focused wizard would lose at straight up combat? How surprising.
 
Alright I'll concede for now, but I'm still worried that it will be awhile before we get to these killing blow units. Or the DM will have to up the anti to a place that is a bit weird for use to get to these units.
You're missing the point entirely.
Mathilde isn't using the Belt and Seed to go WAAGH in like a smol grey Hulk.
She's using those because due to her combat role, she's frequently deep in enemy lines, and uses them to survive disengaging.

She's not safe, because the retaliation and protective items wouldn't stop goblin or skaven hordes from tarpitting her long enough for their actual heroes to come down and paste her. They're there so that she can take her opportunistic sabotage, then survive the mooks long enough to get out before their actual elites show up.

If she actually stood and tried to kill her way through the horde she'd die. Period.
 
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