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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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@Duesal

I'm reading your past chapters, can you pull up the current design of the Moonchaser please?

I think if this is going to continue the least people could do is quote X and Y when they say X should or should not work/we voted on Y so that's what we should get.

Why are Threadmarks so goddamn difficult to navigate ugh.
 
Deliste said:
@Duesal

I'm reading your past chapters, can you pull up the current design of the Moonchaser please?

I think if this is going to continue the least people could do is quote X and Y when they say X should or should not work/we voted on Y so that's what we should get.

Why are Threadmarks so goddamn difficult to navigate ugh.
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You're unfortunately going to have to sift through discussion using keywords. That's the best we can do, especially if you're not just looking for specific posts, but entire lines of discussion about one subject.
 
Deliste said:
@Duesal

I'm reading your past chapters, can you pull up the current design of the Moonchaser please?

I think if this is going to continue the least people could do is quote X and Y when they say X should or should not work/we voted on Y so that's what we should get.

Why are Threadmarks so goddamn difficult to navigate ugh.
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Sorry, I'm about to go binge watch movies with my sister before she leaves for college. You actually caught me just as I'm logging off for the night.
 
Crake said:
Dug up my old class for Garin. I know he's not due for a level up just yet, but it's been awhile since it's been posted
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The first and second abilities are superfluous, but the third is interesting. And familiar.
Deliste said:
ASoIaF

Sha'Ir into Mindbender and Anima Mage

I'd be starting at Sha'Ir 5/Mindbender 1/Anima Mage 4

I take the binding feats to enter without a dip and I'll be taking Mindsight too.

I have a binding level of 6 and, so far, 1/day Free Metamagic. I'll be aiming for Persistent Spell eventually and will achieve a handful of all day buffs in a world with very few people capable of dispelling.

Malthus binding alone from day one would allow me the neat trick of seeing through a magical Raven at-will.

I want the Eyrie for my own so I'll spend a bit of time messing with people, using my Raven and other small animals and my Telepathy to establish myself as a recently awakened ancient spirit before revealing myself.

Because you see this is the land of my ancestors and I am simply reclaiming what is mine through right of conquest, that's what your people do right? :whistle:

I already have enough magic to take the Eyrie singlehandedly and I can keep myself fed and sheltered so my plan is to just start acting like the boss and dealing with anyone who disagrees.

I could cut off the pass at night and re-establish it in the morning if I really wanted to and there's nothing they can do about it.

If Zceryll is available I have a constantly active mid-high level summoned creature available, refreshable every 30 seconds and I dwell in the land of chokepoints and deadly falls.

The rest I'd have to wait for reactions, Bloodraven, Jon Arryn and Robert etc.

Astaroth will let me take any Item Creation Feat so I'll be kitted out properly sooner or later, I'll have all the threats and reagents I need to become stronger through use of the Planar Binding line or I can pop over to Asshai and Sothyros.
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You will have to terrify the staff into compliance.

Conquering the Eyrie, by a certain measure of conquering, while Jon is alive is asking for Bobby B to call on the Secen Kingdoms for their armies if need be.

Most my ideas for ASOIAF involve some sort of marriage precisely because it's hard as fuck to build up a reliable power base in someplace as traditionalist as Westeros.

It's that, or fucking off to the Summer Islands.
 
It's all pulled from the Oracle Shadow Mystery, if it helps. Which would be a good place to find replacement abilities, TBH.
 
Crake said:
We got shiny too soon, so it will be clunky and in battle the genie ships should prove better at X compared to our focuso n Y".
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Thank you for mostly summing it up.

If you got my point, why all... This?
065tdsa said:
I find it hilarious that you're basically saying "It will be the revolutionary first of it's kind battleship all subsequent battleships were based on, which rendered all that came before irrelevant. It will not, however, be the excessively large, obsolete-before-being-built white elephant of a battleship made in the era of the carrier, which saw more use as a hotel than in battle."

Because I hope you realize, that's what you're actually saying with this IRL comparison. Calling it Dreadnought is hilariously flattering and basically implies a naval design paradigm will be inspired by it, whereas it being a Yamato would make it a horrid waste of resources only good for show.
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It's a metaphor.

The Moonchaser is revolutionary, its engine allows for enormous amounts of lift, is independent of elemental servants and very non-volatile.

Doesn't mean it doesn't have downsides as well.
 
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TotallyNotEvil said:
Thank you for mostly summing it up.

If you got my point, why all... This?

It's a metaphor.

The Moonchaser is revolutionary, its engine alloww for enormous amounts of lift, is independent of elemental servants and very non-volatile.
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It's all this extraneous bullshit that irked me. I wasn't even specifically going out of my way to attack you, I just found the way you argued your point irritating and not at all straight-forward. And no, your naval metaphors didn't particularly aid discussion at all.

The details--what you wanted to argue--that's fine. I'd still rather let DP weigh in before jumping the gun and convincing everyone what to do about it, but the essence of what you were arguing was discernible after multiple posts of arguing with you.

Ideally, you would want to just cut it down to there in one post, avoid the argument, and then if you're feeling extra squirrel-y that day, even follow-up with what you intend to do about it, immediately causing people to latch onto something they can actually discuss once it's been established "X is too much, or else Y feels useless, which doesn't appeal to my sense of the lore".

Perception. Yes, it matters. No one was acting any more comprehending of what you were arguing for until well after we had traded multiple posts about the topic. Maybe that's just poor timing, but with how active this thread is, you gotta figure the active posters, if they're not posting, are simply sitting back and trying to feel out what's been talked about before weighing in on something that could change our priorities completely on something.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
It's a metaphor.

The Moonchaser is revolutionary, its engine allows for enormous amounts of lift, is independent of elemental servants and very non-volatile.

Doesn't mean it doesn't have downsides as well.
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Well of course it has downsides and room for improvement. Everything does. It doesn't make your metaphor less horrible: no one would ever regret building Dreadnought, while everybody who built battleships at the same time as Yamato did regret it when carriers either rendered them only fit for shore bombardment roles or sent them to the bottom.

People have no reason to moderate their expectations, we're right on the money in terms of ship design here and everything else will come in time. It's not quite a wonder-weapon (nor should it be) but I'm sure it's everything most people hoped for.
 
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@Duesal
That's technically a nice offer, but I think for these "Perfect Ones" we should add something grander.
Talk about how our Erinyes have grown in skill and power in just months, where their last advancements took centuries and millenia.
The infinite options we give valuable people to realize themselves, from workshops for every art or magic, to training for any martial art we know of.

We don't just offer a job, we offer a future of nearly unlimited growth, in science, battle and selfhood for those willing to follow us and to work for it.
 
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065tdsa said:
Well of course it has downsides and room for improvement. Everything does. It doesn't make your metaphor less horrible: no one would ever regret building Dreadnought, while everybody who built battleships at the same time as Yamato did regret it when carriers either rendered them only fit for shore bombardment roles or sent them to the bottom.
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What would you suggest was a highly succesful, streamlined, effective battleship then?

It's was metaphor for "think of it as a great first step instead of the end of the journey".
 
I think he's saying that the advanced forms of Battleships came into being right around the time they were not just, from a design perspective, obsolete (which as you pointed out would be from the moment they were lain down) but obsolete from a doctrinal perspective.

So not only is this metaphor hard for complete initiates to figure out, but someone actually informed on the subject will happily quibble with you over... pretty much whatever you're going to say, enthusiasts are just like that.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
What would you suggest was a highly succesful, streamlined, effective battleship then?

It's was metaphor for "think of it as a great first step instead of the end of the journey".
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I don't actually know the class name, but the US had some nice fast battleships near the end of the war which were still a waste of money overall but at least affordable for their budget. Maybe try something from WWI instead, since that was the era of the big battleships? I don't actually know that much about ships, besides what I've absorbed here and there.

Basically what I'm thinking is that yeah, the Moonchaser has a lot to improve on and even as early as 10 years from now it may be considered a floating tub only good for a museum... But right now it's great, and there's no point on ragging on it. Designs should be evaluated as good or bad in the context of the times, the stone-tipped spear wasn't a bad design in the Stone Age because it couldn't compete with the assault rifle that had not been invented yet.

Applied to our ships metaphor, Dreadnought was great because it could beat everything else that came before it, everything it was made to beat. The Yamato sucked because even if Japan had been able to afford to regularly send them to charge head first into carrier groups, they wouldn't have done anything but die.
 
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065tdsa said:
Basically what I'm thinking is that yeah, the Moonchaser has a lot to improve on and even as late as 20 years from now it may be considered a floating tub... But right now it's great, and there's no point on ragging on it. Designs should be evaluated as good or bad in the context of the times, the stone-tipped spear isn't a bad design because it can't compete with the assault rifle.
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... Which is precisely what I said, repeatedly?

I will just go ahead an sleep.
 
In completely unrelated news, I've begun working on a proposal for the 11th Month turn plan in the Spreadsheets.

Most of this is just carrying over the previous months already paid-for actions which would then continue until completion, or filling in spaces for others.

Hero unit actions are basically at this point just suggestions.

Though @Goldfish I am going to need Tyene or pretty much anyone that can replicate a spell like Brainspider or Modify Memory to complete the Mercenaries action in Pentos.

Mostly because it would give us more levies to train, more MAA to use for garrisons, and 3,000 more elites which is almost enough to finish a 6th Legion... I think. My math might be a bit iffy. It'd be a completed outfit by the end of the next turn, anyway.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
The first and second abilities are superfluous, but the third is interesting. And familiar.

You will have to terrify the staff into compliance.

Conquering the Eyrie, by a certain measure of conquering, while Jon is alive is asking for Bobby B to call on the Secen Kingdoms for their armies if need be.

Most my ideas for ASOIAF involve some sort of marriage precisely because it's hard as fuck to build up a reliable power base in someplace as traditionalist as Westeros.

It's that, or fucking off to the Summer Islands.
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I'm kind of banking on a military response so I can neutralise it "without effort".

Set the stage for the new reality that is my existence.

Plus I get to do the whole "You invaded me, what was I supposed to do? Resurrect in my other ancestral lands?"
 
Deliste said:
I'm kind of banking on a military response so I can neutralise it "without effort".

Set the stage for the new reality that is my existence.

Plus I get to do the whole "You invaded me, what was I supposed to do? Resurrect in my other ancestral lands?"
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You gotta admit, saying "1v1 me IRL Westeros" is just ballsy enough to win the respect of the tribalist warlords who inhabit the place. :V
 
Deliste said:
I'm kind of banking on a military response so I can neutralise it "without effort".

Set the stage for the new reality that is my existence.

Plus I get to do the whole "You invaded me, what was I supposed to do? Resurrect in my other ancestral lands?"
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Drains resources that could be used in the Long Night.

If you are cool with terrifying/mind-controlling the servants into compliance and casting a tornado on an army, then you might as well teleport to Dany/Highgarden, charm the relevant parties and win yourself a dragons/a giant army.
 
Crake said:
You're unfortunately going to have to sift through discussion using keywords. That's the best we can do, especially if you're not just looking for specific posts, but entire lines of discussion about one subject.
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What I'm looking for is the "final" write up with design doctrine and full HP stats etc.

It is truly a bitch to find.
 
I, for one, still lack unserstanding of just what makes our ships so much "worse" from this chain of discussion @TotallyNotEvil.

Is it only maneuverability in spehhs?

I'm pretty sure that on such distances as there, and with gravi-cores capable of shifting gravity's direction in miniscule amounts over a long-ish course of time, they won't be so much of an arrow as a guided missile - needing some calculations done beforehand, but certainly capable of changing pathing on the go (space distances are considerable, and lack of air means that it won't really be damaged by anything but itself during any maneuvers).

Is it weapons?
Ours rely on simple physical concepts, and while they aren't really performing as well as LAZOR CANNONZ of genie in terms of damage, they are objectively cheaper/easier than high-level enchanting and spirit-binding.
Also, while their direct attacks have longer range (800 ft for Efreeti lazor iirc), we can artillery shit with cannonballs and some good counting on shooter's part, whereas spells dissipate.

Us having the ships not operate off spirits (voluntarily or bound), kinda makes it a very different thing in terms of construction - I'm pretty sure we are only limited by the resource for the Antograv-cores, and given sufficient funding, probably could stamp ships out much easier than Genie (binding hundreds of spirits, and enchanting hundreds of arcane devices is bound to take more resources/time than making the robust things comprising our ships.
Which so far as I'm aware of, are pretty damn basic I so far as spell levels go - whereas Valyrian ships have been largely of the same weight-class as Genie's... And work for Archmages).

I'm not saying we don't have ways to go with our designs.
But I'm nor sure that comparing them in bad light is correct either.
Ours are just different.
 
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I think next morning I will ask DP if the Scholariums can be used to convert spells into rituals. I think that rituals are something that can be used to mass produce spell usage and that they would be very useful for any projects we have involving spell launchers and such. Thoughts on that?
 
egoo said:
I, for one, still lack unserstanding of just what makes our ships so much "worse" from this chain of discussion @TotallyNotEvil.
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The problem is he's assuming millennia of unmentioned 'refinements' that'd make genie ships way better than our first ships. The existance of such things would make sense OOC. But in our IC reality, no such things can be spotted.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Drains resources that could be used in the Long Night.

If you are cool with terrifying/mind-controlling the servants into compliance and casting a tornado on an army, then you might as well teleport to Dany/Highgarden, charm the relevant parties and win yourself a dragons/a giant army.
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Yes and no.

The War of the Five Kings happened in the timeline I don't exist in.

So either I'm a net positive to the Long Night or I'm a net detriment.

Punking an army or two isn't going to get me on the net detriment side as long as I can make Westeros as a whole see sense before they do in the canon timeline.

The difference between me and ASWaH Viserys is that I actually do have the OOC knowledge that shit has "already" been fucked.

I have my tenuous claim, I have my cassus Belli and I have demonstrated that my stick is quite large and may be even larger than that.

As long as Westeros is reacting to me rather than the opposite of me begging for marriages etc I am content.

Let's be real, who's army won answers the questions that 90% of people have.

If anyone left really wants to disagree with me in detail I can teleport them to the top of the stratosphere and have a very intense 3 minute conversation while freefalling.

If by some unlikely chance they manage to scream incoherently for the full duration (I expect them to get bored/tired around 60 seconds in) I can just do it again until they see things my way or I decide they're not worth my time anymore and I just let gravity do it's job. :p

Soon enough I'll have enough people convinced they will do the arguing for me and I only have to show up for the real problem cases.

But yes @Crake I am essentially calling for a 1v1 to cut through all the nonsense, Robert Baratheon got far enough with a hammer I think I can do a similar job with legit magic.
 
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