Remove ads

A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

Reader mode
Either it mechanically works as intended or it doesn't and explodes at the lightest breeze, in which case it was a pointless waste of time to everyone except a hypothetical future navy we'll never see anyway.
 
Deliste said:
ASoIaF

Sha'Ir into Mindbender and Anima Mage

I'd be starting at Sha'Ir 5/Mindbender 1/Anima Mage 4

I take the binding feats to enter without a dip and I'll be taking Mindsight too.

I have a binding level of 6 and, so far, 1/day Free Metamagic. I'll be aiming for Persistent Spell eventually and will achieve a handful of all day buffs in a world with very few people capable of dispelling.

Malthus binding alone from day one would allow me the neat trick of seeing through a magical Raven at-will.

I want the Eyrie for my own so I'll spend a bit of time messing with people, using my Raven and other small animals and my Telepathy to establish myself as a recently awakened ancient spirit before revealing myself.

Because you see this is the land of my ancestors and I am simply reclaiming what is mine through right of conquest, that's what your people do right? :whistle:

I already have enough magic to take the Eyrie singlehandedly and I can keep myself fed and sheltered so my plan is to just start acting like the boss and dealing with anyone who disagrees.

I could cut off the pass at night and re-establish it in the morning if I really wanted to and there's nothing they can do about it.

If Zceryll is available I have a constantly active mid-high level summoned creature available, refreshable every 30 seconds and I dwell in the land of chokepoints and deadly falls.

The rest I'd have to wait for reactions, Bloodraven, Jon Arryn and Robert etc.

Astaroth will let me take any Item Creation Feat so I'll be kitted out properly sooner or later, I'll have all the threats and reagents I need to become stronger through use of the Planar Binding line or I can pop over to Asshai and Sothyros.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yooo, how long do all your fancy powers last? Most nice spells literally last minutes since the adventuring day is like 10 minutes of sustained combat. At most. I see the "eventually" attached to Persistent Spell there.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Would you prefer to be inserted into ASWAH or in ASOIaF ? Why ?
In either case the insertion happens as the corresponding canon starts, in a place of your choosing. You are inserted as a human with 10 class levels, with the usual ROB requirements of no gear, no infinite loops, and no wildly broken PrCs (Illithid Savant, Dweomerkeeper, the custom ones in this quest...).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
ASOIAF, easy. Probably Wiz 3/Archivist 1/Theurge 6. Fifth level arcane and fourth level divine, Wedded to History, Craft Woundrous Item/Arms and Armor, maybe Construct if I can swing it.

ASOIAF has ice zombies. ASWAH's state of fucked up is best illustrated by "Hellven".
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
How can I possibly be any more clear?

None of the issues I mentioned are new, they have been known since the basic concept of the anti-grav engine was floated about: it takes a long time to get up to speed, and as long to slow down. Only the gentlest of turns can be made at high speeds. It depends on gravity to fly, if there is no gravity, it's running on inertia.

I'm furthermore highlighting the point that snubbing a smaller, cheaper and far more streamlined vessel such as the Sword Ship as having nothing to offer is folly.

Because while one day we might have a Yamato, this is only our Dreadnought. Incredibly impressive, perfectly serviceable, but only the first step.

Walking around like we've got the biggest stick in town because we've made our first ever battleship, when the other side has nuclear aircraft carriers, is asking for a lesson in humility.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There is a reason I wanted to keep the Sword Ships, then eventually argued for a ten year lease. They're good at what they do and relatively robust.

That doesn't invalidate the utility of the Moonchasers, which will hit harder, have a wider operating range, and absorb more punishment.
 
I counter that you were pushing it from "Hey, these other ships might actually be pretty good vs. what we have" to "these ships are modern nuclear-powered carrier equivalents and we're just barely past the Age of Steam, if that".

And out of nowhere. I get it, you're an engineer, you think what you say is valid vs. what the QM has written, but that's far from a thesis to convince people to "moderate your expectations of their effectiveness", it's a put-down of literally months upon months of build-up that's already occurred.
 
A_Somebody said:
Yooo, how long do all your fancy powers last? Most nice spells literally last minutes since the adventuring day is like 10 minutes of sustained combat. At most. I see the "eventually" attached to Persistent Spell there.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Binder abilities are essentially at-will and the rest depends on whatever spell you are using.

The facetious though correct answer is "Long enough".

For the vast majority of your time the threat of a Fireball is doing more work than casting the Fireball.

I could address this in more detail if I had specifics to work off of but I basically dictate when I need to engage and I'm certainly not going to see 10 minutes of CR appropriate sustained combat, it takes me all of 6 seconds to create a tornado.

Dominate Person, if I were inclinee to use it, lasts for days per level and there's pretty much zero chance of anyone resisting that outside of people like Melisandre.

Mage Armor and Temp HP also last long enough to cover me for the day, if they could even threaten my 10 PC Level raw vitality.
 
Of all the stupid shit we've argued about over the years...

Can we just drop this discussion, please?
 
Oh, too late to join the discussion without risking the thread going in flames.
I would like to say that both parties have their points even if i generally prefer my fiction harder and thus much prefer TNEs point.
 
I had a huge ass argument in and out of thread with Azel over bringing RL credentials and then making it the weighted scale of the person's right to assert an idea or convince people to take an action.

It's utterly fucking ridiculous, but my response to him wasn't to try continuing the argument over why broadly stating intent and then hand-waving the details is invalid vs. oh-so-superior knowledge of physics, and if I had the choice originally, neither would it have been a heavy requirement that we involve anti-gravity or physics or all that junk in the design of them, but instead we did, it's done, and we've spent a fortune on it too.

We can't change any of that. I can change this fucking awful notion that we have to cleave to just one person's perspective either, because Azel made me feel small and extraneous to planning around here and all it made me realize in the end was that it was pointless to feel that way because I derive no benefit from "it's this and you're wrong if you argue with me because facts that I'm the only one trying to assert".

If I want to make a plan to design a castle, scribble in the margins for what I want it to include, and someone asks me to draw blueprints and explain my architectural know-how, I'm going to tell them to fucking sit and spin.

And so on. I hope that gets my point across. Thank you.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
How about we table the ship discussion for now? It seems to have gone in a direction that is unproductive.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The discussion has never really been productive, 99% of the work was done in isolation and presented as a job done with sufficient hype and thread trust in the poster to get it approved then and there.

It is not entirely fair to say "this is how it's been for a long time now" or "you're just being a killjoy" when I think most of us can agree that the facilitation of criticism at the time was somewhat stifled by design or not.

Opposition to the Moonchaser was always playing catch-up and that's why I've always pushed for design in thread, we shit post enough it's not going to matter and everyone deserves the opportunity to weigh in before weeks of investment and hype preceding a full release.
 
Since people seem to need a distraction, how about we declare omake night? i have a few ideas i need to get off my ass and actually write down into proper omakes.
 
Deliste said:
The discussion has never really been productive, 99% of the work was done in isolation and presented as a job done with sufficient hype and thread trust in the poster to get it approved then and there.

It is not entirely fair to say "this is how it's been for a long time now" or "you're just being a killjoy" when I think most of us can agree that the facilitation of criticism at the time was somewhat stifled by design or not.

Opposition to the Moonchaser was always playing catch-up and that's why I've always pushed for design in thread, we shit post enough it's not going to matter and everyone deserves the opportunity to weigh in before weeks of investment and hype preceding a full release.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

[X] Duesal

This being said the practicalities of the situation basically necessitate that we do just accept what has come and try to make the best of it.

The sheer fatigue that would need to be overcome on so many people's parts (not the least of which being DragonParadox himself) merely to ensure that we aren't just mirroring the situation and having a couple of people flip the decision is quite impractical to attempt.

I'd rather not have a couple people yelling obviate a great deal of votes even in the direction my favoured outcome.
 
Deliste said:
For your vote we weren't performing an interrogation, we used Commune with Texts so that information is already in our heads.

I too found it a little odd that he hadn't anticipated betrayal/fleeing from his familiar, while he may not have anticipated his body going walkabout, general theft should have been a well anticipated concern.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, i think the problem is we were being too specific, its like intellectus, the information is in your head, but you need to ask the right question or you are not going to get it.
Surely we could at least predict where Varys would escape to if she managed to steal our power right? (Either the dragonmount or would just hide in the treasury until we all left to look for her)

Edit: oh yeah

[X] Duesal
 
das_slash said:
Yeah, i think the problem is we were being too specific, its like intellectus, the information is in your head, but you need to ask the right question or you are not going to get it.
Surely we could at least predict where Varys would escape to if she managed to steal our power right? (Either the dragonmount or would just hide in the treasury until we all left to look for her)

Edit: oh yeah

[X] Duesal
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

DPs response threw me a little, if we had asked a creature compelled to speak the truth as we know it I'd expect that kind of rules lawyering but the information is ours to request with a thought.

We should know his familiar as well as he did, that won't get us the current location but it should point us if not in the right direction at least away from the wrong ones.

E.g. No my familiar would definitely not return to master, he's already been threatened with being eaten thrice since Thursday.
 
Deliste said:
[X] Duesal

This being said the practicalities of the situation basically necessitate that we do just accept what has come and try to make the best of it.

The sheer fatigue that would need to be overcome on so many people's parts (not the least of which being DragonParadox himself) merely to ensure that we aren't just mirroring the situation and having a couple of people flip the decision is quite impractical to attempt.

I'd rather not have a couple people yelling obviate a great deal of votes even in the direction my favoured outcome.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I certainly would have voted for something more practical if, at the time, I was informed that there were favorable odds that what we were pursuing wasn't a good investment. Like say, trading for know-how from our allies, and then pumping out way more vessels than we have at present due to directing more efforts towards expending resources and delegating the intensive stuff partially or completely.

But for all the reasons you've pointed out, and the reason that things largely left as they were and verbatim to what the design states it can do, is that DP was largely accommodating toward all of it.

In that case it becomes a meta problem from which blame can be shared around until the cows come home. If we actually did "have it out" and that resulted in relevant mechanical changes, I would argue we deserve the chance to vote for a retcon, and maybe even some updates edited over extraneous posts from DP where we negotiate for research/assistance and slowly build up a large navy of ships.

Obviously that is fucking impractical as hell. Can you imagine how the balance would have shifted in numerous things if we had a moderate-sized fleet of sky ships with artillery mounted onto it? We could honestly conquer Westeros now with our current forces. It would be a bit of a stretch, but our ability to project force around the continent rapidly would allow us to downsize our required standing forces, at least in the short term, to both conquer and hold onto it.

As in, I would be invading next month if I could swing it in discussion.
 
Remove ads
Canon Omake: For the Hoard III
  • Threadmarks
    • For the Hoard III

    Part II​

    They found the zombie nine miles away from the village, shambling face-first into the wall of a cliff. It was some kind of snake-person, with missing eyes and patchy green scales, though for all the rot it carried a spear that shone with enchantment, and bore fine scale armor of bronze. Aelyx was more interested in the one thing that would actually fit him, the ring shining with a magic of its own.


    Igama regarded the snake-person zombie with disdain, blending in flawlessly within a nearby bush as he stayed low in a hunter's crouch. "Fucking zombies," he muttered lowly.

    Aelyx couldn't stop staring. He'd never had a magic item before... "I want that ring."

    "One thing at a time, Aelyx. You can drool over its shit after it's dead," the elder hunter said absently.

    Aelyx looked up excitedly. "We're killing it?"

    "Of course we're killing it," Igama snorted, glancing down at the tiny dragon. "It's way too close to home to allow anything else."

    Wings flared with glee, Aelyx nearly took to the air, but Igama stopped him with the butt of his spear.

    "Not now," the old man said, a stern glare forestalling any protests. "That thing might be dumber than a tree, and slower too, but it's still deadly. Zombies are tougher and stronger than the living."

    "I could just burn it," Aelyx offered impatiently. He eyed the zombie, who was still trying to walk through the cliff.

    "You still can," Igama allowed, backing away and returning to the rest of the hunting party as Aelyx jumped to perch on his shoulder. "You'll just be doing it after a bit of preparation."

    In the end it boiled down to a hole. When you lived in a jungle infested with Painted Lizards and other things that could rip your limbs off, you learned to rely on more than just your spear. In this case, Igama and the others dusted off one of their old pit traps, the sharpened wooden spikes at the bottom still wicked sharp. They didn't even need to cover it. Zombies were just that dumb.

    Aelyx, of course, had the position of honor. He was the bait.

    "Come closer!" he taunted. "That ring is mine!"

    The snake-person zombie moaned and lurched after him, magic spear dragging on the jungle floor, but even at his slowest Aelyx was far faster. Fortunately the pit trap wasn't that far away, and the zombie obligingly fell face first into the spikes.

    "Now, Aelyx!" shouted Igama, leading the other hunters to burst out of the nearby bushes and rain down spears and arrows. Aelyx obeyed instantly, his magic added to the frey.

    The zombie hissed and writhed under the onslaught, but its body clearly couldn't hold up to the abuse, and after a few moments it fell still. Igama poked it with a spear, clearly suspecting something, but then Aelyx, impatient for his prize, simply flew down into the pit and alighted on the corpse.

    "The ring is mine!" he declared, posing atop his vanquished foe.

    Later that night at the village, there was a minor celebration for removing a threat so close to home. The ring fit snugly over Aelyx's tail, and he could feel its protection on his mind and body. Something about treasure claimed in battle felt deeply right, and yet it made his lust for more grow. And he would have more.

    The Pseudodragon found Igama staring pensively into the fire, instead of admiring his new magic spear like he ought to be. The cherry-red firelight made him solemn, somehow.

    "If you don't like the spear I can take it," Aelyx offered generously. He couldn't use it, sure, but not everything in a hoard had to be useful, just valuable.

    Igama snorted, turning to regard him. "I was thinking, Aelyx."

    "About what?" Aelyx asked, settling on a flat stone next to the man, circling a bit before positioning himself just right.

    The elder hunter sighed. "I've seen forty-eight great rains. I've been around long enough to see beyond what's in front of me. Yes, we just killed the zombie. But there's never just one."

    "There are more?" Aelyx asked. Then he perked up. "Do you think they'll have more rings?"

    "Pray that there aren't more, or that they don't find us," Igama warned. "If there are too many, one magic spear won't be enough to stop them."

    Aelyx considered this. Igama had a point. Even something as mindless as a zombie had to be maneuvered around by them. But if there were too many, there wouldn't be a choice but to flee.

    "Maybe my magic will do the trick?" he tried.

    Igama smiled. "In time, perhaps. Either way, no need to listen to an old man and his worries."

    Aelyx considered protesting, but abandoned the notion as Igama scratched that spot just behind his horns. Before he realized he'd drifted off to sleep.


    OOC: Mainly just fleshing out things a bit more. Also I couldn't find a Serpentfolk Zombie, so just imagine a more fleshy and disgusting skeleton.
     
    Last edited:
  • Threadmarks
    • How can things get to this level of misunderstanding :facepalm:

    @Crake have I pulled any authority card in these last posts?

    Have I said it won't work? That it will be a paper-mache flying disaster?

    No, what I'm saying is "temper your expectations" and "don't put down much more refined designs, just because our's is bigger and nastier". I then proceeded to point out the inherent flaws of our shiny new tech tree. Which, hey, everyone has some of.

    Blinding ourselves to ours doesn't make them disappear.

    I stand by my naval metaphors: we are building HMS Dreadnought, it it will be awesome.

    It won't, however, be IJN Yamato, by a long fucking shot, because that's just plain ridiculous. No matter the bullshit you've been sold, virtually everything on it will have an ocean's worth of space to improve.

    Which, again because this apparently isn't getting through, doesn't mean it's non-functional.

    The Moonchasers built in a year should make the first Moonchaser's designers cringe at their earliest work. That's just how technology is.

    A ship becomes outdated the moment it starts being laid down.
     
    Last edited:
    Ugh, this is just like before.

    It's pointless to argue with either of you, and that's how you're similar. You never factor in another person's perceptions to what you are saying, and then act like people are just too thick-headed to get you.

    Sometimes when trying to convince another person towards a certain point, perception matters more than metaphor.

    If you actually have a point to get across, just say "this is what I would like vs. the current state of affairs". "We got shiny too soon, so it will be clunky and in battle the genie ships should prove better at X compared to our focuso n Y". That sucks, but my next goal would be then to ask @DragonParadox for clarification, and when he gives it because what you're suggesting seems reasonable, I would then drive discussion towards doing something more productive.

    Avoid metaphor. If, during heated discussion, you start to observe that by slipping into comparisons, and YES, Azel did exactly this too, shifting goal posts or just sticking words into people's mouths, you piss people off, then the discussion becomes non-productive.

    Is that really fucking unreasonable?
     
    TotallyNotEvil said:
    I stand by my naval metaphors: we are building HMS Dreadnought, it it will be awesome.

    It won't, however, be IJN Yamato, by a long fucking shot, because that's just plain ridiculous. No matter the bullshit you've been sold, virtually everything on it will have an ocean's worth of space to improve.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I find it hilarious that you're basically saying "It will be the revolutionary first of it's kind battleship all subsequent battleships were based on, which rendered all that came before irrelevant. It will not, however, be the excessively large, obsolete-before-being-built white elephant of a battleship made in the era of the carrier, which saw more use as a hotel than in battle."

    Because I hope you realize, that's what you're actually saying with this IRL comparison. Calling it Dreadnought is hilariously flattering and basically implies a naval design paradigm will be inspired by it, whereas it being a Yamato would make it a horrid waste of resources only good for show.
     
    Last edited:
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top