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Who Needs Harmony?: An MLP Empire Quest

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[X] Gardening: Gwyndlyn has always loved the outdoors, and has spent a great deal of time walking amidst the trees and flowers of the Palace Gardens. You're sure she'd love a chance to care for the plants and learn all there is to know about them.

[X] Gleaming Golden Pearl: Your daughter shall learn the intricate and complicated laws of the market, tutored by bankers, burghers, merchants, and other industrious fortune-builders in the art of accumulating wealth. +Diplomacy, +Stewardship, -Martial

Makes sense, Gwyndlyn gotta have a past time that doesn't require her to be in a constant state of paranoid general and noble. That way lays madness and for something as long lived as a dragon thats just a good way to make a tyrant who is unhinged and in the future we be raising a uprising upon the regnant.
 
[X] Gardening: Gwyndlyn has always loved the outdoors, and has spent a great deal of time walking amidst the trees and flowers of the Palace Gardens. You're sure she'd love a chance to care for the plants and learn all there is to know about them.

[X] Gleaming Golden Pearl: Your daughter shall learn the intricate and complicated laws of the market, tutored by bankers, burghers, merchants, and other industrious fortune-builders in the art of accumulating wealth. +Diplomacy, +Stewardship, -Martial
 
[X] Gardening: Gwyndlyn has always loved the outdoors, and has spent a great deal of time walking amidst the trees and flowers of the Palace Gardens. You're sure she'd love a chance to care for the plants and learn all there is to know about them.

[X] Gleaming Golden Pearl: Your daughter shall learn the intricate and complicated laws of the market, tutored by bankers, burghers, merchants, and other industrious fortune-builders in the art of accumulating wealth. +Diplomacy, +Stewardship, -Martial
 
[X] Gardening: Gwyndlyn has always loved the outdoors, and has spent a great deal of time walking amidst the trees and flowers of the Palace Gardens. You're sure she'd love a chance to care for the plants and learn all there is to know about them.

[X] Gleaming Golden Pearl: Your daughter shall learn the intricate and complicated laws of the market, tutored by bankers, burghers, merchants, and other industrious fortune-builders in the art of accumulating wealth. +Diplomacy, +Stewardship, -Martial
 
[X] Gardening: Gwyndlyn has always loved the outdoors, and has spent a great deal of time walking amidst the trees and flowers of the Palace Gardens. You're sure she'd love a chance to care for the plants and learn all there is to know about them.

[X] Gleaming Golden Pearl: Your daughter shall learn the intricate and complicated laws of the market, tutored by bankers, burghers, merchants, and other industrious fortune-builders in the art of accumulating wealth. +Diplomacy, +Stewardship, -Martial
Adhoc vote count started by todbo on May 21, 2019 at 11:27 AM, finished with 67 posts and 46 votes.
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Adventwolf said:
You really have no idea what you are talking about. It is not "gold" it is a unit used to represent total wealth. The reason we took it is so we can expand the army again without needing to overburden our income. The amount of wealth we save is a side benefit the main reason is that it fixes the excessive in the army and makes it better supplied and and supported. In order to run a proper military you have to have a robust supply system in place.
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It's been referred to as gold several times in posts. Two examples:
Questor said:
-200 Gold per Turn to Support Refugees
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Questor said:
-600 Gold
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But that's not really important to the argument.

It will help us some while we're at war, but I'd be willing to bet that actual mid-long range communication would be worth even more while in combat and we're not picking that up. And it's really only useful when we're projecting force nonlocally, which should be quite some time away (since our next combat is likely naval, which this doesn't help)

Then again we don't have hard numbers for its combat modifiers yet, so it could go either way. The previous groundwork action gave +20 to a single roll, and that included both scouting the route and setting up preliminary logistics. I doubt that this will give anything close to that benefit. (Though if we do an extended siege or something we might have to roll multiple times)

It's like the Peregrene Line option- that costs us nothing and saves us 100/turn. We're paying that to run a heavily fortified barrier between us and our new protectorate. Basically everyone agreed that 100/turn wasn't worth paying an action. It's unlikely the wall will see use again, since any threat would need to be answered well before it got to the wall. But it's not worth our time to decommission it. Similarly, the logistics upgrade is certainly nice (and will be crucial later on when we have a much larger army) but it's not worth the cost right now.

...Unless the cost to implement scales with our army size? That'd make physical sense and would make going for it immediately optimal, but seems unlikely.

So fundamentally, is getting a small boost to army movement and +135 per turn worth an acton and 800? The effective income will increase as we grow our army, but until we double in size it still won't be that much. Logistics is critical, no one's arguing there, but this upgrade was very small compared to what it cost to implement.
 
[X] Gardening: Gwyndlyn has always loved the outdoors, and has spent a great deal of time walking amidst the trees and flowers of the Palace Gardens. You're sure she'd love a chance to care for the plants and learn all there is to know about them.

[X] Gleaming Golden Pearl: Your daughter shall learn the intricate and complicated laws of the market, tutored by bankers, burghers, merchants, and other industrious fortune-builders in the art of accumulating wealth. +Diplomacy, +Stewardship, -Martial
 
BloodsCrescendo said:
Yeah, I must admit I don't quite get that easier, seeing as annexing them would be both a pragmatic and reasonable choice, AND WAS OUR ONLY REASONABLE OPTION FOR EXPANSION for the entirety ignore this quest so far. Now, unless we somehow fully manage to annex them eventually we are nearly completely surrounded completely by other kingdoms. Allied ones yes, and we certainly shouldn't have attacked the yaks, but surrounded none the less.
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I agree, this is why I think we should try to take advantage of the Yaks situation and try to Annex them through causing a Civil War. If we don't do that and act soon then we will end surrounded and there would little we could do change it except going declaring war and start a conquest but that would severely damage our image.

[X] Board Games: She shall follow her elder brother's example, and will learn patience, strategy, and how to read people by playing numerous board and card games with you and members of the Imperial court.
[X] Gleaming Golden Pearl: Your daughter shall learn the intricate and complicated laws of the market, tutored by bankers, burghers, merchants, and other industrious fortune-builders in the art of accumulating wealth. +Diplomacy, +Stewardship, -Martial
 
[X] Gardening: Gwyndlyn has always loved the outdoors, and has spent a great deal of time walking amidst the trees and flowers of the Palace Gardens. You're sure she'd love a chance to care for the plants and learn all there is to know about them.

[X] Gleaming Golden Pearl: Your daughter shall learn the intricate and complicated laws of the market, tutored by bankers, burghers, merchants, and other industrious fortune-builders in the art of accumulating wealth. +Diplomacy, +Stewardship, -Martial
 
[X] Gardening: Gwyndlyn has always loved the outdoors, and has spent a great deal of time walking amidst the trees and flowers of the Palace Gardens. You're sure she'd love a chance to care for the plants and learn all there is to know about them.
[X] Gleaming Golden Pearl: Your daughter shall learn the intricate and complicated laws of the market, tutored by bankers, burghers, merchants, and other industrious fortune-builders in the art of accumulating wealth. +Diplomacy, +Stewardship, -Martial
 
Retrueno said:
I agree, this is why I think we should try to take advantage of the Yaks situation and try to Annex them through causing a Civil War. If we don't do that and act soon then we will end surrounded and there would little we could do change it except going declaring war and start a conquest but that would severely damage our image.

[X] Board Games: She shall follow her elder brother's example, and will learn patience, strategy, and how to read people by playing numerous board and card games with you and members of the Imperial court.
[X] Gleaming Golden Pearl: Your daughter shall learn the intricate and complicated laws of the market, tutored by bankers, burghers, merchants, and other industrious fortune-builders in the art of accumulating wealth. +Diplomacy, +Stewardship, -Martial
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I'd think pushing our allies into civil war for meaningless expansionism to be rather foolish. Especially when we're winning diplomatic victory after diplomatic victory with people more and more inclined to us getting ever more in power, t'would be rather wasteful to piss it all away for, of all things, a landgrab.
 
BloodsCrescendo said:
Yeah, I must admit I don't quite get that easier, seeing as annexing them would be both a pragmatic and reasonable choice, AND WAS OUR ONLY REASONABLE OPTION FOR EXPANSION for the entirety ignore this quest so far. Now, unless we somehow fully manage to annex them eventually we are nearly completely surrounded completely by other kingdoms. Allied ones yes, and we certainly shouldn't have attacked the yaks, but surrounded none the less.
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We still have ocean access, with a strong enough navy we could still build our empire overseas, like the European colonial powers.
 
Negentropy said:
We still have ocean access, with a strong enough navy we could still build our empire overseas, like the European colonial powers.
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I'm also kinda hoping for the chance we'll come across just, free land. discord fucked things up for years, so the chances of just some stretches of land with barely anything isn't out of the question. The area next to the yaks was pretty much free, after all.
 
[X] Gardening: Gwyndlyn has always loved the outdoors, and has spent a great deal of time walking amidst the trees and flowers of the Palace Gardens. You're sure she'd love a chance to care for the plants and learn all there is to know about them.

[X] Gleaming Golden Pearl: Your daughter shall learn the intricate and complicated laws of the market, tutored by bankers, burghers, merchants, and other industrious fortune-builders in the art of accumulating wealth. +Diplomacy, +Stewardship, -Martial
 
Adventwolf said:
You really have no idea what you are talking about. It is not "gold" it is a unit used to represent total wealth. The reason we took it is so we can expand the army again without needing to overburden our income. The amount of wealth we save is a side benefit the main reason is that it fixes the excessive in the army and makes it better supplied and and supported. In order to run a proper military you have to have a robust supply system in place.
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I respect disagreement, it generally leads to better votes for everyone involved once everything's been hashed out, but could you please try to avoid personal attacks? I realize you probably aren't doing it intentionally, since your posts usually read as being slightly on the confrontational/forceful side, and I'm not saying it's wrong to write like that or anything, but it's best to keep the focus on how certain options/plans would be better or worse for our goals, rather than on how someone is wrong.
 
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[X] Board Games: She shall follow her elder brother's example, and will learn patience, strategy, and how to read people by playing numerous board and card games with you and members of the Imperial court.
[X] Gleaming Golden Pearl: Your daughter shall learn the intricate and complicated laws of the market, tutored by bankers, burghers, merchants, and other industrious fortune-builders in the art of accumulating wealth. +Diplomacy, +Stewardship, -Martial
 
So heres somthing, do we plan on exploring the last part of the unexplored territory that borders us anytime soon we might as well see whats on our last border south west of us between the yaks and the crystal empire.
 
Let's wait an see what disaster we have to deal with first and what the Neiponese found at sea before we go sticking our beaks into new territory
 
Raptor580 said:
Unless said roll is the unexplored territory finding us. o_Oo_Oo_O
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What are you talking about? In terms of exploration we are 2 for 3 on it working out for us. The Yaks although nomads are good and reliable trading partners, eager to modernize. The Neighponese are much like us a large multi-ethnic empire and we share many technologies and have had good cultural exchange... and the third one...

You know let's not talk about the third one it kinda ruins my argument. Definitely no multi-year long war or anything. Go Exploration!
 
Firebringer2077 said:
What are you talking about? In terms of exploration we are 2 for 3 on it working out for us. The Yaks although nomads are good and reliable trading partners, eager to modernize. The Neighponese are much like us a large multi-ethnic empire and we share many technologies and have had good cultural exchange... and the third one...

You know let's not talk about the third one it kinda ruins my argument. Definitely no multi-year long war or anything. Go Exploration!
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Never said it would be bad people finding us, but its entirely possible the roll was someone finding us.
 
Keani said:
I'd think pushing our allies into civil war for meaningless expansionism to be rather foolish. Especially when we're winning diplomatic victory after diplomatic victory with people more and more inclined to us getting ever more in power, t'would be rather wasteful to piss it all away for, of all things, a landgrab.
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Obviously, the idea would be doing it without getting caught the same way you don't go to war with intentions to lose. We're getting more and more diplomatic victories true but, that won't solve the problem of us being surrounded and without options of expansion (except colonialism). It's not only the futures expansions that I worry about btw, us being surrounded will be bad for future diplomatic and economic options as we'd need to pass through a lot of different countries. It would also limit our population eventually.

Lisain said:
I'm also kinda hoping for the chance we'll come across just, free land. discord fucked things up for years, so the chances of just some stretches of land with barely anything isn't out of the question. The area next to the yaks was pretty much free, after all.
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We don't have a strong navy now, and developing one will take some time, moreover, I doubt we'd be able to compete with the Neighponese...
 
Retrueno said:
We don't have a strong navy now, and developing one will take some time, moreover, I doubt we'd be able to compete with the Neighponese...
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We're developing Steam engines and have Carracks. I'll concede we don't have a strong navy- but if they are all operating on similar naval paradigms to actual Japan around this time period... I give it a few years until we have a massive qualitative advantage.

Keep in mind the Neighponese as a competent naval power will be doing the smart thing and relying on boarding tactics with the technologies they have available. This means lots of small, relatively light weight ships so they can be agile and fast. That means a relatively low waterboard and a frame too weak to absorb the recoil of cannon- the exception to this, the Atakebune, was still a relatively poor ship for gunnery duels and had a poor performance when used against Korea. Compare that to the relatively massive, high-sided Carracks we're developing. Boarding is an absolute pain in the ass and for the first time ships are likely to have enough ranged firepower to completely sink ships without closing for a boarding action. And then consider the terrifying part of having largely Gryphon crews- we can maintain a broadside while launching boarding actions from above or even simply fly over incendiaries or explosives as primitive bombers. A fully realized Gryphus Navy would be a terrible thing, and that's assuming we stop at age of sail levels of naval technology.
 
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