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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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zxzx24 said:
If mindspider so much as nudges a thought out of place they are going to know.

Think about how danys dreamwalking works. Powerful magic like that leaves traces, even when deliberate steps are taken to hide it.

I would instead recommend using divination spells to pluck what important info we want from their minds.
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To quote the text of the spell.

This spell allows you to eavesdrop as a standard action on the thoughts of up to eight other creatures at once, hearing as desired:
  • Individual trains of thought in whatever order you desire.
  • Information from all minds about one particular topic, thing, or being, one nugget of information per caster level.
  • A study of the thoughts and memories of one creature of the group in detail.
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I would see use of the suggestion effect on the spell nudging things for sure. But this is basically just Detect Thoughts Plus. It's purely observation.
 
zxzx24 said:
If mindspider so much as nudges a thought out of place they are going to know.

Think about how danys dreamwalking works. Powerful magic like that leaves traces, even when deliberate steps are taken to hide it.

I would instead recommend using divination spells to pluck what important info we want from their minds.
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There is also another option, ask them. Seriously you have very high social stats. If you were for instance imply that in telling you the truth they make you more likely 'to come into the light of the Seven' they might well do so and truth detection magic is not invasive.
 
Lucan could have intentionally revoked control over Baelor or never established it, after all Baelor is a person that Lucan likely thought would be reasonable and didn't want to enslave, which forcing him to obey Lucan's commands would be. Or the Stranger could have allowed Baelor to act freely while giving him the template.
 
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DragonParadox said:
There is also another option, ask them. Seriously you have very high social stats. If you were for instance imply that in telling you the truth they make you more likely 'to come into the light of the Seven' they might well do so and truth detection magic is not invasive.
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Would they be inclined to give information about their organization, their numbers and their motives? Especially after we captured them?
 
DragonParadox said:
There is also another option, ask them. Seriously you have very high social stats. If you were for instance imply that in telling you the truth they make you more likely 'to come into the light of the Seven' they might well do so and truth detection magic is not invasive.
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...

Ha. Haha. I know what to do now. Thank you DP.

So, people? The two we take with us? We have above discussion if we have time, and if they seem at least reasonable, give them escorts, request that they do not attempt to flee as we'll be taking them home that evening, and let them actually get to see Sorcerer's Deep.

Right now Lucan and Danelle are running off of rumours. We can change that.

Updated plan. @DragonParadox is this more in line with a Diplo check now? I'm wanting to be honest.

[X] What is Personal
-[X] "It was not an experience I would wish to repeat, to be left little choice but to see him simply...stopped. But given the power he had been invested with, I had few options."
--[X] Explain how you did not seek to rend Baelor's soul, nor damn him to a hell of the Old Gods' making. The blessing, perhaps curse, he had called down upon himself would have continued to return him to life no matter how many times you defeated him. You can at least be thankful that he was given peace in death. "Made my enemy by circumstance of the power he bore Baelor might have been, but he was still my kin, Danelle." Stealth reference to Rina. She's going to be extremely relevant later on.
--[X] "But this is more a discussion for the summoner, and perhaps the ones whose words set my ancestor so irrevocably against me." If the second half gets a reaction, I'm really not going to be happy, but I'm also not going to be surprised.
-[X] Express your desire to speak to both her and Lucan, tonight if possible, under oaths of parlay. You have clearly misinterpreted the man in some things, and you would like to rectify that in the hopes of finding some common ground or compromise. Entirely truthful.
--[X] You will release two of those you took from Lucan as a show of good faith. The two you keep will be treated as guests, with all the respect that implies, until their release upon a peaceful resolution to the parlay.
 
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@Snowfire, I can't believe I'm the one saying this, but the Mind Spider isn't worth it on Lucan's minions. If there's a chance for any kind of diplomacy then let's talk until that option is exhausted. Mind Spider here comes with a lot of risk for comparatively little gain.

If things fall apart, there's nothing stopping us from hunting Lucan and his minions again.

Edit: Faceless'd, it seems.
 
DragonParadox said:
There is also another option, ask them. Seriously you have very high social stats. If you were for instance imply that in telling you the truth they make you more likely 'to come into the light of the Seven' they might well do so and truth detection magic is not invasive.
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Viserys is above such petty deception and I think anyone who paid attention to his policies would find it astonishingly unlikely that he would, in effect, submit himself before the Seven's judgement or tribunal for, at this point, obviously breaking their core tenets. He at least seems to be a man of conviction, if not one they would agree with.
 
Snowfire said:
...
Updated plan. @DragonParadox is this more in line with a Diplo check now? I'm wanting to be honest.

[] What is Personal
-[] "It was not an experience I would wish to repeat, to be left little choice but to see him simply...stopped. But given the power he had been invested with, I had few options."
--[] Explain how you did not seek to rend Baelor's soul, nor damn him to a hell of the Old Gods' making. The blessing, perhaps curse, he had called down upon himself would have continued to return him to life no matter how many times you defeated him. You can at least be thankful that he was given peace in death. "Made my enemy by circumstance of the power he bore he might have been, but he was still my kin, Danelle." Stealth reference to Rina. She's going to be extremely relevant later on.
--[] "But this is more a discussion for the summoner, and perhaps the ones whose words set my ancestor so irrevocably against me." If the second half gets a reaction, I'm really not going to be happy, but I'm also not going to be surprised.
-[] Express your desire to speak to both her and Lucan, tonight if possible, under oaths of parlay. You have clearly misinterpreted the man in some things, and you would like to rectify that in the hopes of finding some common ground or compromise. Entirely truthful.
--[] You will release two of those you took as a show of good faith, with the others to be released upon a peaceful resolution to the parlay.
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Yes, this is all diplo checks.
 
Crake said:
Viserys is above such petty deception and I think anyone who paid attention to his policies would find it astonishingly unlikely that he would, in effect, submit himself before the Seven's judgement or tribunal for, at this point, obviously breaking their core tenets. He at least seems to be a man of conviction, if not one they would agree with.
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"I will be meeting with Lucan this evening, to hopefully find a compromise we can both hold to in safeguarding the peoples of Westeros from those things that seek to inflict far worse than death. I do not ask for anything that would allow me to strike against him, but the nature of the man, and what he has seen done. Rumours have done him great disservice."

Or something like that.
 
[X] Snowfire


Crake said:
Viserys is above such petty deception and I think anyone who paid attention to his policies would find it astonishingly unlikely that he would, in effect, submit himself before the Seven's judgement or tribunal for, at this point, obviously breaking their core tenets. He at least seems to be a man of conviction, if not one they would agree with.
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Yeah, we don't really want to be seen as an outright liar.
 
Crake said:
Viserys is above such petty deception and I think anyone who paid attention to his policies would find it astonishingly unlikely that he would, in effect, submit himself before the Seven's judgement or tribunal for, at this point, obviously breaking their core tenets. He at least seems to be a man of conviction, if not one they would agree with.
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Hence why I said imply not state, give them hope. He did build a very impresive sept recently after all.
 
[X] Snowfire

I have my reservations as to whether this will go anywhere but hopefully this doesnt end like it did for Lot's wife.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Hence why I said imply not state, give them hope. He did build a very impresive sept recently after all.
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So essentially, wake them up in the solar of Dragon's Roost, greet them with our word to act as a proper host and that they shall be returned to their fellows within the day, and go from there, yes?

And to be fair, these are mages - and I doubt either of them is social spec. So we should have a good chance of conversation, despite the nature of our...first meeting.
 
Snowfire said:
To quote the text of the spell.



I would see use of the suggestion effect on the spell nudging things for sure. But this is basically just Detect Thoughts Plus. It's purely observation.
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Detect thoughts I would be fine with, it's a much less... potent. Spell

@DragonParadox can we make an arcana check to know if brain spider leaves traces or not?

Even incredibly minute changes would be quite visible if he puts then under god scan. (Which he will).

I only ask because we've shown the dream realm manifests mind effecting spells directly. Usually.
 
[X] Snowfire
I love that the thread attitude is good again and we are still treating people like actual people to interact with now. The ugly seems to have fully passed.
 
zxzx24 said:
Detect thoughts I would be fine with, it's a much less... potent. Spell

@DragonParadox can we make an arcana check to know if brain spider leaves traces or not?

Even incredibly minute changes would be quite visible if he puts then under god scan. (Which he will).

I only ask because we've shown the dream realm manifests mind effecting spells directly. Usually.
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*rolls check*

Considering that Lucan has access to miracle Viserys is not 100% certain Brain Spider would be undetectable.
 
Artemis1992 said:
By fluff Brijindine have devils as favorite enemies, so I dare say she propably has a trick to deal with fire-immune foes up her sleevers.
Or two.
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Snowfire said:
Or twelve :V

She seems a smart cookie.
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Tricks are cute and sometimes useful, but RAW-wise she's honestly very limited against fire-immune foes (especially considering her lack of gear). Against foes with that kind of CR, that kind of disadvantage really does have a good chance of being deadly.
 
Guys it is the 17th day and we do have sacrifices? If we wanted we could ask Yss to...extract the information without notice. Or straight divine it. Either or.
 
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