@Azel, Thank you. I'm happy to respond to this. Side notes: I am of course speaking only for myself and this is almost purely a matter of personal preference, so I can get most of what you said, I'm just trying to offer a genuine look at the other side.

If the cults are not directly relevant to the conclave and can be eliminated before it even starts, thus having no impact at all on the conclave, why have these cults in the first place?
My enjoyment of the cults being in place and active wasn't really related at all to whether they actually end up interacting in a major way with the conclave. It was almost entirely based in world building. We've all seen the times when DP has had issues with integrating the more inhuman enemy factions into the narrative organically (sorry to bring up old pains DP, it's in service to a greater point) but I enjoyed the set up for Old Town because it was just the opposite. Tia chan and the Squidbillies having active stuff going on here was set up in narrative quite well and seeing them already established and at work while we play a bit of catch up was an excellent way to pay off various bits and snapshots of Old Town right from the start. It made the world feel more active and integrated to me, and it fits what I would expect from the sort of place that semi organically spawns an institution like the Lantern Bearers. I wouldn't have been shocked or annoyed to find even more factions engaged in shadow conflicts as we dive deeper into the Old Town Murk.

They are in my eyes meaningless padding to the main event, which is in dire need of screen-time to deal with the plethora of open questions. See my above 45 questions concerning just the conclave itself. I can add probably another 20 or so if I start looking for interactions between the cults, their potential goals, and the different factions.
See I don't really disagree that dealing with them was originally intended to be a... Prelude to getting down to conclave business, but I actually view that in a positive light. I liked the potential narrative that Viserys comes to town and has to spend a little time sweeping complications out of his path before he settles into some good old fashioned schemery.
I think you have a genuine point about screen time that I hadn't considered, thanks. It might just be the slowdown from the previous 'month' warping my perspective of how long to expect things to take.

And lastly, I had high hopes that this event would actually deal with a Planetosi faith in a meaningful way and for once not have Illithids, Tiamat, Devils and whatever else crawled in from the planes being the main attraction.
I think you know I share your frustrations when that sort of thing happens, I simply didn't really expect that to happen here. The concern is perfectly valid though, fair enough.
 
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I honestly can't say if it was worth it or not.

@egoo it involved religion, so it devolved into a snit as to whether or not sending Danny or Yrael was a waste of time.

A bunch of yelling happened, and no decision was reached.
Just for the record, the snit was not about anything religion related, but about the usual paranoia of Yrael being unable to lie even by omission thus giving away the whole plan or Dany acting Chaotic Stupid or being recognized and instantly soul-killed by Lucan.

There was a whole lot of of panic over basically nothing and nobody felt the need to address any of it, since the matter was not urgent at the time.

However, neither Dany nor Yrael are so busy that they can't take a few days off to help the conclave efforts, so everything is still in the cards.
 
Oh, I mentally shoved alignment, and "every outer plane" out with the drama boat.

Like no gods, no afterlives, no objective or subjective morality as a force of reality.

Just a militant aethiest regime exterminating organized religion and us never having to deal with "right" or "wrong" again.
 
[X] Azel

You're great ! I support your position and reasoning, and have for the past few days. I'm not going to be very active for the next 10 days, but just assume that unless something huge changes you aren't talking to a room full of haters.
 
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Oh, I mentally shoved alignment, and "every outer plane" out with the drama boat.

Like no gods, no afterlives, no objective or subjective morality as a force of reality.

Just a militant athiest regime exterminating organized religion and us never having to deal with "right" or "wrong" again.
I think you're in the wrong quest for that. Irrespective of being allied with multiple gods, almost all of our PC's care a great deal about right and wrong.
 
[X] Azel

You're great ! I support your position and reasoning, and have for the past few days. I'm not going to be very active for the next 10 days, but just assume that unless something huge changes you aren't talking to a room full of haters.
Not sure if sarcasm or if I fell so far that I get backup from the French. :wtf:

Next thing is that the English will guarantee my independence...
 
Not sure if sarcasm or if I fell so far that I get backup from the French. :wtf:

Next thing is that the English will guarantee my independence...
No sarcasm. Some of your posts felt... weary, for lack of a better term. I'm off the internet during the day, but I'm still backing you in this matter. Please don't feel like you're alone in defending your position!

Think of it this way: you have made arguments about literature (what would make the best story) and plotting to cause political chaos. France has a long history of excellent litterature and of longlasting political chaos (The Entire IIIrd Republic). There's no shame in this ! :p :D
 
[X] Azel

I can't talk much during the day, and I've barely been keeping up with voting.

But I'm sure I wouldn't have contributed much to the discussion anyway. I feel like most of the points worth going over were well addressed.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by egoo on Apr 23, 2019 at 7:58 PM, finished with 332 posts and 20 votes.

  • [X] Do not meddle with the cults until you have a clearer picture of the conclave.
    -[X] Fetch Rhealla
    [X] Contact the Lantern Bearers
    -[X] Create a suitably believable persona and contact the one spying on the Smith's Temple, or the one you already know if your persona could reasonably come by him without drawing too much suspicion.
    -[X] Mindblank them before revealing too much, and then tell of what you've found, requesting what they have in return so you can jointly strike both demons and deep ones down.
    [X] Honesty and Deception v2
    -[X] Make a note to look into the Shermer household with nonmagical means, specifically their actions in recent months and what power the family holds within Oldtown.
    -[X] Scry the Lantern Bearer that you saw observing the Smith's Sept, with the aim of finding a way to make contact.
    --[X] Make your introduction in the guise of Dywen, a powerful follower of the Old Gods, whose dreams have led him to the city and the infestation within.
    ---[X] If it would be in keeping with thematics, say that in those dreams that you were guided towards the Lantern Bearers, as the true magical protectors of the city.
    --[X] Before speaking further, offer a blessing to veil the man's actions from the vision of the Bitch Queen's servants, explaining that they divine six times a day if they will be attacked.
    --[X] If he accepts, proceed to explain as much as you know of the conspiracy within the Sept. Offer your aid to the Lantern Bearers to strike this corruption from their city. If asked why one who follows the Old Gods would wish to worshipers of the Seven, point out that it is not for them, but those deceived in their prayers that you have come to aid. The power that has come to infest the Smith's Sept cannot be allowed to simply persist with the Conclave so close at hand.
    ---[X] Dywen's focus on the Conclave in this is driven by his primarily peaceful nature, awareness of the powers of those within the Sept, and the entirely human desire to not place hundreds or thousands of lives in danger - as Faithful will surely flock to the city as the Conclave gathers.
    --[X] If questions on his ability to actually aid an assault, promise blessings of the Old Gods (tangible and real) and healing to any who might require it after the battle is done. If pushed, offer that you are a man poorly suited to violence, but if it is truly necessary, you could work to stymie that magics of your shared foes.
    -[X] Meanwhile, Lya and the rest of the party are to plan out an assault on the manse. Vee is to summon several Thoqqua with SNA to get a picture of the ground floor and any guard routes via their Tremorsense ability, and that plan will be used to build a swift assault on the building with the aim of securing as many captives as quietly as possible. If there is sufficient time after combat, magic is to be used to repair as much damage as possible, to make it appear that the Golden Company cell simply ran.
    --[X] Ensure that any sign of the mutated Darkenbeast is purged.
    [X] Snowfire's Plan but as Tisery- Master Liu
 
Sure there is, he could have no weapon proficients, 0 BaB and never have used a battle spell in his life. I would certainly not be oposed to fluff like this for a character. Not everything has to be raw crunch.

And once shit goes down and Dawn or Dusk has passed they either use spells that matter or hold their convictions over the outcome. Unless the fluff is that they are incapable of certain spells, in which case I'd argue you should have given them an entirely different class.

OK so after a PM conversation with @Azel I realized that this entire arc is not as engaging as I would have wanted it to be. I wanted this to be world-building to make the rest of the world feel as alive as say SD, to show the factions moving around you, but all I managed to do is give you more molehills to stomp so the narrative drags (as seen by the relatively low engagement in the planning). I think I know how to streamline this now.

I will endeavor to avoid filler from now, but I also have a request for you guys in general. When the narrative feels like it's dragging please tell me.

I have VERY intermittent internet connection at the moment and for a couple more days but I for one did appreciate the world building, I thought it was great that there are a few extra plots going on in Old Town, it makes perfect sense, it's Old Town and it WAS making the rest of the world feel alive to me.

I don't understand all the salt in this case, most of the arguments seemed to be people talking past each other and only choosing to engage on partial arguments at best and almost never the meat of their "opponent's" point.

This could have been fun if we had just let it. I hope the updates are as good as I expected from your initial set up and that they don't get rushed.
 
"Who was responsible for the magic that allowed you to bring down the spawns of Tiamat"

Asked under interrogation conditions.

Because really, if you think someone won't ask that question, you're missing a trick.

He was asked last time in similar circumstances and basically told them to fuck off.

That's why we like him.

This in a situation where he would have been pressured by The Conspiracy considering he was being used as their catspaw when he met us, got infodumped and proceeded to make his displeasure known so I'm curious on who would have more leverage and be more antagonistic than what happened that time.
 
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Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Apr 24, 2019 at 2:58 AM, finished with 339 posts and 21 votes.
 
Part MMDCCXCII: Setting the Stage
Setting the Stage

Fifth Day of the Ninth Month 293 AC

The decision on what to do next is not an easy one, for though the first impulse is to remove Tiamat's pawns and break whatever webs the Deep Ones forged the fact remains that you know very little of their actual purpose, of the way they might interact with the Conclave which might perhaps be turned to some advantage. The latter notion sits ill with Waymar, but even he had to agree that so far as you can see neither cabal seems to be any imminent threat to the city, both reigning in their darker impulses in favor of some longer game which you cannot guess at now for you barely know more about the Conclave than what the rumors tell.

"I have to go back to the Deep and deal with the Order candidates," Waymar admits reluctantly. "If we are not going to deal with them now I should probably be going."

"I've gotta get to hooking that big devil-snake corpse into the Fungus Forge," Vee speaks up in turn, drawing a faintly incredulous look and a shake of the head from Leto.

"Me too," Lya says. Looking to Ser Richard she adds: "I'm afraid I'm going to have to take Oathkeeper with me as well, Ser."

The knight gives his sword a long telling look that shifts into an amused snort at some comment from the spirit within before carefully undoing the straps that hold the enchanted scabbard in place.

"Probably best to keep that," you note, quickly conjuring a mundane but otherwise identical sheath.

"I hope this is worth absenting myself from battle," the blade's voice rings in all your minds.

What weapon will Ser Richard use while Oathkeeper is being empowered?

[] Write in

***​

Of course, deciding that you will not be removing either of the two conspiracies you have discovered yet does not mean ignoring them. Fortunately the Furies are in many ways perfect for the task of silent observation, able to take on any face, pierce all but the most skillfully woven glamours, and should it come to it vanish at a moment's notice. Thus you ask Leto to select some of her sisters to keep an eye on both the Deep One pawns and Tiamat's demon, a task she readily accepts, though not without her own suggestion.

"My sisters have little in the way of subtle recourse should something we see require immediate intervention, either death by sword and bow, or tangling ropes and curses that any half-trained sorcerer would recognize for the mark of our kindred. The Sun Haters might be of use to us here, the Drow. Their magics are subtle, and I would judge they have the sense to follow orders to the letter and the spirit while they are under our eyes."

She has certainly given you no reason to doubt her judgment, and she knows the time-lost brothers better than you, and if you are going to justify the cost of restoring them much less paying them then you have to make use of their skills at some point. Under the Fury's unwavering gaze seems a good place to start, yet they have had little time to grow used to this age of man.

Do you bring in Morwyn and Tuin as backup for the Erinyes?

[] Yes, it will be a good way to test their skills under strict supervision

[] No, they are yet too new in this new age


***​

Lymond's Watch is a quiet tavern with a view to the Honeywine, its doors sturdy and its patrons stout tradesmen, no trace of magic or glimmer of a maester's chain, and the most the patrons talk about the Conclave is about commissions to arriving delegations. It is a near ideal base while you get your footing under you in Oldtown, and speaking of getting your footing you also bring your mother back with you from the Deep, the better to wade into the murky waters of Faith and politics.

On hearing an account of the Faith she nods thoughtfully and gives her own accounting: "I know Ollidor from my time at court. He is..." she hesitates. "Well... no reason to mince words, he is a lecher, but a charming one. The sort of man over whom young ladies half his age sigh and bemoan that he took on holy vows, a skilled courtier, though one who had a reputation for both caution in the face of change or peril and staying bought. If he is Tywin's creature now he will put up a good fight in keeping the status quo of lords being able to hire mages as they please, but only train them by royal decree. Whether he has any genuine faith or care for the Seven-Pointed Star I could not tell you."

"So then would he find an ally in Septa Aglantine?" you wonder aloud. "She is the High Septon's voice while he is 'busy', which is to say leaving himself room to invalidate the decisions of the Conclave if he does not like them."

"I do not know her personally, but from what I have heard the current High Septon is far more pious than his predecessor and would select his envoy to mirror," your mother replies. "While their interests for the Conclave may align, I suspect they will clash, personally..."

"And she also might be more inclined to listen to Brother Lucan by reason of that piety..." you muse. "So far his merry band of godsworn mages have been tolerated more than endorsed, but after that business in Crakehall I do not think Tywin is inclined to be quite so forgiving." The news, as far as one could trust rumors, was that several of the Golden Shields had to be rescued from Deep One agents, making the mages themselves more inclined to trust Lucan, but you suspect causing the Lord of Casterly Rock to seethe over the implication that he could not protect his own lands.

"Will he be bringing any Archons?" Leto speaks up for the first time in the discussion, her tone very carefully neutral.

"No way to know for certain," your mother replies, very deliberately meeting the Fallen Angel's eyes, not so much in challenge as to prove she does not fear her or what she represents.

"Not from rumors, but we could divine these priests as easily as we did the demons." The Erinyes looks to you in askance.

Do you use commune to answer questions about the arriving delegations?

[] No, you will search for information by more conventional means
-[] Write in

[] Yes
-[] Write in questions


OOC: This jumps around a bit more than I am comfortable with, but it's the best I could come up with for course-correction.
 
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