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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Crake said:
What kind of industry could we really form there? They do have lots of timber, they could get involved with the fur trade, but I think that would just barely let them break even, while working hard, enough to let them maintain several ships. They could rake in a little bit every year off good hauls if they were also given tax breaks by their liege lord (likely in interest of them having a fleet in the first place, since it can be used for defensive or offensive purposes).

As far as we know, they don't have a good source of minerals, unlike the Ironborn, though a thorough survey of their island might turn over something they missed. They don't have lands for agriculture (fair, we could fix that, but they don't have the population to make more use of the land beyond feeding themselves). Which might save them money in the long run.

Basically we can optimize what they already have, but I can't see any way for them to get wealthy off the resources they already have unless they had a more convenient trade route where they could take the furs (which, again, have no novelty where they're taking them, as they are being sold by the other side of the North).

Whaling might be fairly profitable, actually, that's a resource that has multiple uses and limited availability since there is no northern naval presence and I imagine it isn't being exploited by the Ironborn (lack of interest) or the Westerlanders (other investments).
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The biggest and easiest thing that Bear Island could've done to make money was get into the ice trade. Prior to the invention of artificial refrigeration, ice was profoundly profitable and would be worth the equivalent of hundreds of millions of dollars of income each year. Numerous American businessmen made their fortunes selling ice from the east coast as far away as India, China, and Australia.

Aside from the benefits of chilled drinks and artificially cooled houses, ice had a number of uses. The biggest and most important was with the preservation of food; fishing boats could go out longer and further while preserving their catch; cattle could be slaughtered and butchered locally while the meat was transferred to market, greatly reducing shipping costs; the creation of ice cream; and ice's use as a medicine.

Given that Bear Island is directly south of such places as The Frozen Shore, Bay of Ice, and Lands of Always Winter, and has access by ship to all three, it would be trivial to cut ice from the north and then ship it down south. Sure, you would have to deal with Wildlings, but fully armed and armoured men-at-arms are not going to be seriously at risk from Stone Age hunters. Doubly so since the western part of the Lands Beyond The Wall are the least populous.

Speaking of the Wildlings, it would also be likely that trade with them would be very profitable as well. Even if Bear Island does not sell them iron (since they would be arming the Wildlings to more effectively kill each other), metalworks from the Iron Islands would be hugely valuable there. Copper and bronze pots, pewter drinking vessels, needles, hooks, knives; there's a lot the Wildlings would want and would lack the knowledge to reforge. In return, they could trade exotic flowers, exotic furs, amber, meteoric iron (not great as a weapon, but it's renowned for its colour and beauty due to the impurities found in it), ivory, Ironwood (the same miraculous wood that House Forester covets can be found Beyond The Wall), living animal specimens for some rich twit's bestiary, and finally even Weirwood (it's only religiously anathema to cut down Heart Trees with faces carved on them, blank Weirwoods can be cut down and used for their unique properties; Bloodraven did it while he was free).

Lastly, Bear Island could simply start colonizing the Land Beyond The Wall. They have direct sea access to the Frostfangs so it would be possible to prospect them for minerals and then set up fortified mining towns. It would be expensive to deal with the Wildlings, but, again, they only have wood, horn, and bone to make weapons or tools and leather and fur for armour. Only the Thenns have bronze and they aren't going to leave their mountain home to fight at the extreme southern end of the Frostfangs. If the Wildlings attack an armed settlement, they are going to be butchered. The only reason Wildlings are able to raid is when they strike each other, or happen across undefended settlements in the North. (As a side note: I always wondered how Wildings got back with their loot from the North, especially if they were kidnapping people. Climbing the Wall just to get back with a person over your shoulder should be near impossible.)
 
Snowfire said:
And, in the middle distance, there is a swiftly moving spiderfish abomination frantically reshuffling crafting queues to accomodate for giving them all gear :V
Goldfish is the real MVP.
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Haha, I did have to do a lot of reshuffling to squeeze in gear for all the NPCs we kept acquiring.

The 9th month is full up, though, with no more room to squeeze in additional NPCs. New ones will have to wait for the 10th month.
 
Dragons who worshiped Astilabor sometimes promised a share of their gains to the deity if she helped them in their ventures, but never sacrificed what they had promised to her, as they believed Astilabor would lose her respect for them if they gave up their wealth so easily.
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Deliste said:
Dragons who worshiped Astilabor sometimes promised a share of their gains to the deity if she helped them in their ventures, but never sacrificed what they had promised to her, as they believed Astilabor would lose her respect for them if they gave up their wealth so easily.
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
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And in the end she laughs anyway, because doing that empowers her as any prayer would.
 
Deliste said:
Dragons who worshiped Astilabor sometimes promised a share of their gains to the deity if she helped them in their ventures, but never sacrificed what they had promised to her, as they believed Astilabor would lose her respect for them if they gave up their wealth so easily.
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
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"Yss, old chap, I've got another oathbraker."
"Name ..."
... we shouldn't have invented outsourcing.
 
Redium said:
The biggest and easiest thing that Bear Island could've done to make money was get into the ice trade. Prior to the invention of artificial refrigeration, ice was profoundly profitable and would be worth the equivalent of hundreds of millions of dollars of income each year. Numerous American businessmen made their fortunes selling ice from the east coast as far away as India, China, and Australia.

Aside from the benefits of chilled drinks and artificially cooled houses, ice had a number of uses. The biggest and most important was with the preservation of food; fishing boats could go out longer and further while preserving their catch; cattle could be slaughtered and butchered locally while the meat was transferred to market, greatly reducing shipping costs; the creation of ice cream; and ice's use as a medicine.

Given that Bear Island is directly south of such places as The Frozen Shore, Bay of Ice, and Lands of Always Winter, and has access by ship to all three, it would be trivial to cut ice from the north and then ship it down south. Sure, you would have to deal with Wildlings, but fully armed and armoured men-at-arms are not going to be seriously at risk from Stone Age hunters. Doubly so since the western part of the Lands Beyond The Wall are the least populous.

Speaking of the Wildlings, it would also be likely that trade with them would be very profitable as well. Even if Bear Island does not sell them iron (since they would be arming the Wildlings to more effectively kill each other), metalworks from the Iron Islands would be hugely valuable there. Copper and bronze pots, pewter drinking vessels, needles, hooks, knives; there's a lot the Wildlings would want and would lack the knowledge to reforge. In return, they could trade exotic flowers, exotic furs, amber, meteoric iron (not great as a weapon, but it's renowned for its colour and beauty due to the impurities found in it), ivory, Ironwood (the same miraculous wood that House Forester covets can be found Beyond The Wall), living animal specimens for some rich twit's bestiary, and finally even Weirwood (it's only religiously anathema to cut down Heart Trees with faces carved on them, blank Weirwoods can be cut down and used for their unique properties; Bloodraven did it while he was free).

Lastly, Bear Island could simply start colonizing the Land Beyond The Wall. They have direct sea access to the Frostfangs so it would be possible to prospect them for minerals and then set up fortified mining towns. It would be expensive to deal with the Wildlings, but, again, they only have wood, horn, and bone to make weapons or tools and leather and fur for armour. Only the Thenns have bronze and they aren't going to leave their mountain home to fight at the extreme southern end of the Frostfangs. If the Wildlings attack an armed settlement, they are going to be butchered. The only reason Wildlings are able to raid is when they strike each other, or happen across undefended settlements in the North. (As a side note: I always wondered how Wildings got back with their loot from the North, especially if they were kidnapping people. Climbing the Wall just to get back with a person over your shoulder should be near impossible.)
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Problem: While this is all very profitable, it presupposes a few things. The previous conversation was starting low level industry with available resources, including manpower.

Bear Island does not have the people to do more than basic subsistance farming off limited arable land, if it possesses any. They could probably feed their entire island with more arable land if we produced it via earth formation, volcanic ash from SotD, but they would have to turn over every stone and pull away fishers and the like to start exporting grain.

They have enough people to man perhaps several ships, and that's probably by dragging away everyone else already working a small fishing ship or boat. They could do basic resource trading like furs and the like, but setting up mining enclaves? Ice cutting and shipping?

This is all extremely labor intensive. They could just barely afford, in manpower, with skilled trainers from Ibben, afford to man one, maybe two but that's stretching it, whaling ships.

It would take at least three generations going full-bore with access to ample food before they could start working several ships without pulling away too many people from other economic activities, four before they could start establishing a permanent presence north of the Wall.
 
Crake said:
Problem: While this is all very profitable, it presupposes a few things. The previous conversation was starting low level industry with available resources, including manpower.

Bear Island does not have the people to do more than basic subsistance farming off limited arable land, if it possesses any. They could probably feed their entire island with more arable land if we produced it via earth formation, volcanic ash from SotD, but they would have to turn over every stone and pull away fishers and the like to start exporting grain.

They have enough people to man perhaps several ships, and that's probably by dragging away everyone else already working a small fishing ship or boat. They could do basic resource trading like furs and the like, but setting up mining enclaves? Ice cutting and shipping?

This is all extremely labor intensive. They could just barely afford, in manpower, with skilled trainers from Ibben, afford to man one, maybe two but that's stretching it, whaling ships.

It would take at least three generations going full-bore with access to ample food before they could start working several ships without pulling away too many people from other economic activities, four before they could start establishing a permanent presence north of the Wall.
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That's why you need overlords who could foster immigration as needed, to push for such long-term development of poorer areas with many natural resources. That kind of problem is literally 50% of the reason why people pay taxes to the Starks!
[The other 50% is military concerns]

So basically you're arguing that the Starks have historically done a shut job as aristocratic overlords.
 
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Interlude CDXXXIV: Piercing Veils
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    • Piercing Veils​

    Twenty-Ninth Day of the Eighth Month 293 AC

    Anya pulled uneasily at the clasp of her cloak. It wasn't actually tight, she knew, but she might as well get all the nervous fidgeting done now rather than out where people could see it. inquisitors didn't fidget, it was a well-known fact for all the long and storied history of the book and sword. Well, more storied than long, but it came out to the same thing—when she wore the mask she was not really Anya, orphan and former street rat still trying to figure out how to deal with everything from making more money than she had ever imagined to being a sorceress—she was the eyes and sword of the Dragon King. Hopefully this time she wouldn't be the frozen solid sword that lays discarded on the ground through most of the fight...

    "Are you ready?"     the voice of the King's familiar rang through her thoughts.

    "Y-yes." She still felt a little jumpy at the presence. A familiar, for those mages who chose to use them, were as close as their shadow, knowing their mind and possessing a full measure of their skills. Of course she could not imagine the King being quite so covetous. His generosity was practically a legend in and of itself in Sorcerer's Deep.

    ***​

    Quite apart from sparing them the water nymph's enchanted song it was a relief not to be able to hear the clamping, chanting, and shouting of the crowds. One could almost pretend this was just a normal job she had to do. Right, just a normal every day life and death struggle. Anya shook her head a little at her own skewed priorities. Ah... well, as Mia was fond of saying, reasonable levelheaded people don't join up to fight monsters in the King's name.

    Deaf as they were, they could not have the usual sort of chat that had become a bit of an unofficial tradition to have before a fight. Well other than Varys asking, she hesitated to think of it as pestering, the dragon turtle about his history. Anya was no scholar to make heads or tails of any of it, though the figure of five-thousand years stuck in her head.

    Since half the contestants couldn't hear the usual signal of horns to mark it, the beginning of a fight was matched by a profusion of illusory fireworks from Lady Sandviper, so Anya kept her eyes on the sky. The signal was neither subtle nor ambiguous, a giant three-headed dragon made of flames smashed its wings together in a profusion of light that eclipsed the sun.

    Anya's feet were moving before her mind had even caught up with them, her sword out but not to strike the Triton champion. Instead she wove it through careful patterns in the air speaking words she could not hear. An unseen shield shimmered into being, wavered... and held. Even not being able to hear herself speak, she had managed to weave the spell. Her foe must have been startled by her daring, for as he charged to meet her challenge two blows of this True-Silver spear sparked harmlessly off her armor, and a third was not even able to pierce the arcane vitality drawn from her necklace. Still, to his credit, he did not fall prey to the thunderous detonation that pulsed briefly against Anya's skin to strike him. He would not fall easily this hunter of the depths.

    Varys coiled in the air, her tail dripping arcane poison as she raced for the water spirit, but it was Shara whose actions must have caused the most confusion among the crowd, for rather than draw her daggers she held instead a scroll in hand, and though she was no name recited from it the words of command, laying a hand enveloped in an azure nimbus upon Mia's shoulder.

    Light as a feather in the air the sorceress rose, aiming to ascend much higher than if she had to speak herself the words of power, yet the sea nymph was swifter. An unraveling masterfully woven pulled at the threads of scroll-forged magic... then Anya felt the familiar lurching sensation in her stomach—fate's hand had been twisted and Mia rose and rose... a smile upon her lips as she aimed her launcher down at the mighty dragon-kin.

    Alas that it seemed to have grown wise to the tactic... with a mighty lurch the great turtle avoided the worst of the entangling strands, and from its cavernous maw burst a torment of scalding steam enveloping Anya.

    It is an easy thing to say that pain means nothing when one is not being boiled alive in one's armor. All she wanted to do was run, hide, and cry from the sheer blistering agony. But she couldn't, she wouldn't, that wasn't what an inquisitor would do. She stood her ground and struck with all her might, blade slipping beneath the rippling sea-forged shield... through the joints, always the joints, to cut through scales as tough as boiled leather.

    A moment later Shara's hand on her back... blessed golden relief... now she only felt about half-boiled.

    The relief was short-lived, though, as the champion's spear pierced her shoulder only to drop from nerveless fingers. Looking up blearily through the pain Anya saw Mia weave her magic. She was bleeding from the mouth and ears from some spell the priest must have cast while she was distracted, but still the gestures were quick and sure, the spell born though the nymph attempted to contest it, a torrent of noxious fumes enveloping the turtle and the spirit atop it, though the dragon-kin was able to shrug it off the one atop it could not.

    This was no foolish beast to need a rider to fight, though. The creature plowed into Shara... or rather by a trick of her enchanted armor into the place Shara would have been destroying naught but mist and vapor and giving the inquisitor the chance to toss out another bag of entangling resin in her wake. This time it was stuck fast.

    Anya briefly pondered striking the still drowsy warrior but discarded the notion. The important thing now was to get out of the way of the turtle, to make the enemy come to them. With a thought she was five feet back and then on her own two feet she raced back towards the south side of the Circle, making use of her own belt to heal her wounded arm.

    From the corner of her eye she caught a glimpse of Varys rushing at the priest, her stinger still enchanted. By vitriol and venom the first had fallen. In a sense they were all distractions, here to slow down the foe or incapacitate them while Varys' swift deadly blows stuck them down.

    Anya wished she could that she could know if the champion was still behind her or still fallen. The reached the end of the field and turned, only to find him still dazed and now tangled just like the turtle was from a strike by Mia's launcher.

    Unfortunately that was when the sea spirit recovered enough to use her magic again. Alas for her she decided to use it to turn invisible and charge Shara.

    Anya called out a warning in her mind for Varys to bear to the other inquisitor... who responded to the warning by briefly turning invisible herself. It was perhaps a good thing that no one in the crowd could see them since every blow missed. Varys, however, did not miss the still struggling warrior. A passing stroke of her tail left him reeling, a second delivered as Anya was rushing to help Shara finished what she had started.

    Only the singer and the turtle left... Eyes bright with sorcery pierced glamours... Valyrian Steel bit through sea-silk...

    The enchantress cut at Anya's chest... no, at her warding amulet. The chain broke, the silver pendant clattering onto the sands.

    It was too little far too late. Between the two inquisitors and Varys rushing in the sea-spirit fell. The turtle, alone and only now able to burst its entanglement, very deliberately sat down.

    "He says he surrenders!" Varys called exultantly in her head.

    OOC: It was touch and go for a while there, particularly when Anya was hit by the breathweapon at full strength. She was at 2 HP.
     
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    • TalonofAnathrax said:
    So basically you're arguing that the Starks have historically done a shut job as aristocratic overlords.
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    One could argue that literally everyone is Westeros have done a shit job for not developing their lands. A lot of the story doesnt really talk about immigration and land reform. Concepts that are more modern than what Westeros is used to.
     
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    Do you guys want to see team Bear vs Amrelth in an interlude or should I just append it to an update? I ask because it's going to be brief and less weighty than when he fought the knights.
     
    DragonParadox said:
    Do you guys want to see team Bear vs Amrelth in an interlude or should I just append it to an update? I ask because it's going to be brief and less weighty than when he fought the knights.
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    It'd be impactful from Team Bear's POV at least. Amrelath would certainly enjoy the chance to gloat.

    Also, @DragonParadox, for the Deep-Dweller Serpentfolk you said Riz'Neth is willing to permanently send to us, what level is he?
     
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