I think there are a lot of reasons why Mormonts developing even a small fleet isn't tenable. They have the timber for it, could acquire shipwrights, but maintaining ships costs a lot of money, and they don't have diverse enough resources to make long journeys profitable. The Manderlys have the advantage of being able to very quickly sail a limited number of raw resources, diversify their cargo with it while at port, and then make a tidy profit off of it.

Even reputation isn't a limiting factor for the Mormonts here, unlike the Manderlys, because of how isolated they are and how their neighbors would applaud and stomp their feet if there was two or three or five more ships between them and Ironborn raiders, and wouldn't pause to think about bears dirtying their hands by tending cargo.

That's all a rather reductive line of reasoning though... the smarter thing to do would be not to marry someone who's aspirations are grander than surviving through winter with a fire constantly burning in the hearth.

Fair points all but I was not thinking of long range commercial ventures, just a hop across to the Far North where Jorah could have set some of those very poachers (and their friends and families) hunting things with rare furs to sell in the Free Cities. In our history the fur trade made an enormous amount of money under similar circumstances and while there would be no novelty factor here I think a concerted drive to get high quality furs would have done much better than selling a few slaves. There are after all far closer places than Bear Island for Tyroshi ships to get slaves, beaver, shadowcat and mink furs not so much.
 
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Mind you, depending on how talks with Maege Mormont go, I would offer them a good loan and maybe some expertise to get a fleet and some industry going.

Come winter, Bear Island is ultimately a forward base against the White Walkers.
 
Fair points all but I was not thinking of long range commercial ventures, just a hop across to the Far North where Jorah could have set some of those very poachers (and their friends and families) hunting things with rare furs to sell in the Free Cities. In our history the fur trade made an enormous amount of money under similar circumstances and while there would be no novelty factor here I think a concerted drive to get high quality furs would have done much better than selling a few slaves. There are after all far closer places than Bear Island for Tyroshi ships to get slaves, beaver, shadowcat and mink furs not so much.

Mind you, depending on how talks with Maege Mormont go, I would offer them a good loan and maybe some expertise to get a fleet and some industry going.

Come winter, Bear Island is ultimately a forward base against the White Walkers.

What kind of industry could we really form there? They do have lots of timber, they could get involved with the fur trade, but I think that would just barely let them break even, while working hard, enough to let them maintain several ships. They could rake in a little bit every year off good hauls if they were also given tax breaks by their liege lord (likely in interest of them having a fleet in the first place, since it can be used for defensive or offensive purposes).

As far as we know, they don't have a good source of minerals, unlike the Ironborn, though a thorough survey of their island might turn over something they missed. They don't have lands for agriculture (fair, we could fix that, but they don't have the population to make more use of the land beyond feeding themselves). Which might save them money in the long run.

Basically we can optimize what they already have, but I can't see any way for them to get wealthy off the resources they already have unless they had a more convenient trade route where they could take the furs (which, again, have no novelty where they're taking them, as they are being sold by the other side of the North).

Whaling might be fairly profitable, actually, that's a resource that has multiple uses and limited availability since there is no northern naval presence and I imagine it isn't being exploited by the Ironborn (lack of interest) or the Westerlanders (other investments).
 
Whaling might be fairly profitable, actually, that's a resource that has multiple uses and limited availability since there is no northern naval presence and I imagine it isn't being exploited by the Ironborn (lack of interest) or the Westerlanders (other investments).
Distance alone would be an issue. Reminder here that due to wonky ASOIF geography, the Iron Isles are on the same latitude as Spain. Whaling is an exclusively Ibbenese thing since Braavos is favouring trade over fishing and the North has no naval tradition. Every other location is simply too far from whaling grounds.

So lending them enough to build a dock and some whaling ships could really help a lot, especially as Bear Isle has a strong fishing tradition.
 
Basically we can optimize what they already have, but I can't see any way for them to get wealthy off the resources they already have unless they had a more convenient trade route where they could take the furs (which, again, have no novelty where they're taking them, as they are being sold by the other side of the North).

I do not think the market is that saturated. Yes the other side of the north sells them but they would not be as high quality as what you can get North of the Wall, it's canon that there are all sorts of animals there that have gone extinct in the South, like the direwolves and the only Northerners who could access the Far North on that side easily are the Skagosi and given the island's reputation ships do not stop there unless they are taking on water

Whaling might be fairly profitable, actually, that's a resource that has multiple uses and limited availability since there is no northern naval presence and I imagine it isn't being exploited by the Ironborn (lack of interest) or the Westerlanders (other investments).

Good point, you guys could get them some experienced whalers from Ibbo help them along
 
Distance alone would be an issue. Reminder here that due to wonky ASOIF geography, the Iron Isles are on the same latitude as Spain. Whaling is an exclusively Ibbenese thing since Braavos is favouring trade over fishing and the North has no naval tradition. Every other location is simply too far from whaling grounds.

So lending them enough to build a dock and some whaling ships could really help a lot, especially as Bear Isle has a strong fishing tradition.

Watch this balloon from "a small dock and a few whaling ships" to raising them an actual full-on harbor. :V

Maege: "You said you would help us build some ships!"

Viserys, confused: "This is much better, though?"

Later...

Jeor: "He did what?"

Jorah, leaning over the ledger: "...raised Bear Island's annual income by a thousand dragons--"

Jeor: "A thousand?!"

Jorah: "...well, they spent the rest on more ships."

Jeor: "...not my concern."

Jorah: "Father?"

Jeor: "NOT MY CONCERN!"
 
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Please no. The Mormonts can mismanage their lands all on their own. We help them when they ask, not before.
And hey, if they stay poor their Werebear will be more likely to join the army or fight for Imperial rewards!
 
Please no. The Mormonts can mismanage their lands all on their own. We help them when they ask, not before.
And hey, if they stay poor their Werebear will be more likely to join the army or fight for Imperial rewards!

Does that count as the bear, or the maiden fair?

I guess they're not a maiden, nor are they fair. So just the bear? (A bear!) Not the maiden (she was fair!) but the bear (a bear!) because she's not so fair.
 
Whaling might be fairly profitable, actually, that's a resource that has multiple uses and limited availability since there is no northern naval presence and I imagine it isn't being exploited by the Ironborn (lack of interest) or the Westerlanders (other investments).

The Ibbenese whale extensively, it would still be super profitable but not an untouched resource. Nor without its risks, whaling was dangerous business.
 
Please no. The Mormonts can mismanage their lands all on their own. We help them when they ask, not before.
And hey, if they stay poor their Werebear will be more likely to join the army or fight for Imperial rewards!

Except we need Bear Island come the Long Night. It's a strategic decision here.

Tbqh, I don't get the Mormont ambivalence here. Is it something to do with how they were framed in the books?
 
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Except we need Bear Island come the Long Night. It's a strategic decision here.

Tbqh, I don't get the Mormont ambivalence here. Is it something to do with how they were framed in the books?

I think it's more contempt for irrelevance to our personal situation. One could argue for relevance in canon, but they're hardly that relevant unless made to be that way by outside forces.

TBQH also I think we have established that we will take a chance encounter with a potential minion or person-shaped loot object and make them extremely relevant based of little prior contact.

'Cause that's just the way we roll. Brune would fist fight Robert Baratheon with no expectations of reward these days, you know?
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by MTB on Apr 8, 2019 at 2:06 AM, finished with 123 posts and 8 votes.

  • [X] Speak with the two fey who were part of the most recently eliminated team—though they may not have won on the sands, you could still find use for their talents
    -[X] Get Oberyn to it, he knows them a bit and since Silore's interest concerns lands he'll govern now this concerns him.
 
Having a fleet to supply military installations on Bear Island and evacuate the Free Folk from the Frozen Shore and the western Frostfangs would be mighty convenient when we gear up for the Long Night.

Im quite giddy at every destitute lord we meet, as we can always bribe them to do useful stuff for us.

Shame that I want nothing but complete submission from the Tyrells and that we have nearly 1.6 million reasons for them to give it.
 
Having a fleet to supply military installations on Bear Island and evacuate the Free Folk from the Frozen Shore and the western Frostfangs would be mighty convenient when we gear up for the Long Night.

Im quite giddy at every destitute lord we meet, as we can always bribe them to do useful stuff for us.

Shame that I want nothing but complete submission from the Tyrells and that we have nearly 1.6 million reasons for them to give it.

I too am counting every individual Gold Dragon as a valid reason for their total and complete submission, how did you know?? :???:
 
Come winter, Bear Island is ultimately a forward base against the White Walkers.
"Targaryen, what are your plans?"
"Surviving, better removing, the White Walkers, extending trade also to the plane of Water, winning the elemental war and looting the City of Brass, removing the Deep Ones, using my God coalition to get one over Tiamat. Oh, showing the Reach's fey their place and putting Ymeri where she belongs."
" :confused: ... I was thinking about the Iron throne ..."
"Oh, that. Yes. Uniting Westeros and unfu..... it will be necessary for fighting the Others."
"I - see."
Shame that I want nothing but complete submission from the Tyrells and that we have nearly 1.6 million reasons for them to give it.
Or to rebel, calling the debt void.
 
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Except we need Bear Island come the Long Night. It's a strategic decision here.

Tbqh, I don't get the Mormont ambivalence here. Is it something to do with how they were framed in the books?
The Mormonts are utterly irrelevant. They're a very, very low priority for us to spend our money and time on. Defending them militarily is obviously necessary (they'll be our subjects) but spending precious Titan Tool time and money on their ports/industry is really not worth it yet. Now if they come and publicly ask for economic help (thus recognizing that they could do with a better way to manage their land than their shitty traditional ways).

Furthermore, they appear to be traditionalists disdainful of foreigners and their way of life. Now of course this take comes entirely from their treatment of Lynesse, and Lynesse was probably very rude about it. Nevertheless, we want Westerosi nobility that's willing to try other things, or at least vaguely tolerate them. The Mormonts so far seem to utterly fail at this. They're full-on "fighting is good, a true noble is good at punching", and meanwhile the thread was listing things they could have been doing to develop their local economy.
None of this sounds very appealing.
We want multicultural traders who are also good at fighting, not bear-fuckers who live in a castle-shaped damp cave :D

So in summary, we have a mostly irrelevant family who will cooperate with our military goals anyway out of fear of the Long Night. Why should we be spending time and money getting them to develop economically? They're very, very low priority!
Furthermore, our Empire seeks to foster conditions in which the Mormonts will either become competent or will lose power and influence until someone else takes charge of these matters and handles things. There is no need for us to act there.
 
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"Targaryen, what are your plans?"
"Surviving, better removing, the White Walkers, extending trade also to the plane of Water, winning the elemental war and looting the City of Brass, removing the Deep Ones, using my God coalition to get one over Tiamat. Oh, showing the Reach's fey their place and putting Ymeri where she belongs."
" :confused: ... I was thinking about the Iron throne ..."
"Oh, that. Yes. Uniting Westeros and unfu..... it will be necessary for fighting the Others."
"I - see."

Once again I eagerly await the day when we finally reach that chair and can tell each and every one of those fuckers that getting that ugly peice of shit was a chore that needed to be done not some magical end goal that we wanted to reach.

We have grown far, far, beyond the meager means of being just a "King."

(Hell if we could tell them how, and just for how long, we've been able to conquer the place and merely held off to make it as bloodless as possible that would make my goddamn year.)

I also want to bill them one messenger raven, lost through neglect, including interest for 11 years. Because I'm an asshole and great at keeping grudges.

"400 Dragons! How much do you think Crows cost?!"

"How dare you sir, that Crow had a family to feed. They didn't even get to have a proper funeral. Which reminds me you need to pay that Crow's Widow his life insurance policy, which is an additional 300 Dragons. "

"..."

"She's willing to negotiate to 20 fresh eyeballs, preferably from the men and women responsible for his death."

"But what if there's less than ten peo-"

"Healing potions and a spoon."
 
Once again I eagerly await the day when we finally reach that chair and can tell each and every one of those fuckers that getting that ugly peice of shit was a chore that needed to be done not some magical end goal that we wanted to reach.

We have grown far, far, beyond the meager means of being just a "King."

(Hell if we could tell them how, and just for how long, we've been able to conquer the place and merely held off to make it as bloodless as possible that would make my goddamn year.)
We need to coordinate with all lords loyal to us so that every raven they send telling King Joffrey to die in a ditch arrive at exactly the same time.
 
Make sure they're all addressed to Joffery Waters, or whatever surname is given to Lannister bastards.

Joff would get Waters since though both his parents were Westerlanders he was born in the Crownlands making him a Waters not a Hill. By the same token Jon should be a Sand, but for obvious reasons Eddard does not want to spread his place of birth around so the default is 'Snow'.
 
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Part MMDCCXXXIII: From Dreams Undying
From Dreams Undying

Twenty-Ninth Day of the Eighth Month 293 AC

After lunch you and Tyene set off in search of Prince Oberyn and the two fey who had fought at his side, for both in their own way presented intriguing opportunities.

From Tyene you learn that Silore had long ago guarded the rich banks of the Lhorulu river and those who dwelt upon them. However, unlike many of her kin, she had not dared to face the might of the Freehold. Seeing so many elder and stronger than her fall to the power of the Dragonlords, the green-clad fey fell into despair and from despair to slumber, dreaming deep throughout all the changes of the world.

"We found her guarding a small village already, and after we established we meant neither her charges nor her any ill will she was more than glad to point us at the bandits we were hunting and even some of her less kindly fey kin," your friend continues. A smile pulls at the corners of her mouth. "About the only thing she objected to was Bronn trying to bed her."

"Wondering if your father fared any better?" you ask, amused.

"Knowing him I have every confidence that he did or he will soon," she replies at once. "The real question is whether I will be getting a new sister out of it."

While you would not be willing to wager whether or not Prince Oberyn has succeeded or not in seducing the fey lady, seeing them wandering side by side through the great godswood, their eyes more often to each other than at the paths they tread, certainly shows that he is making every effort at it.

"Enjoying the walk?" Tyene asks slyly. "I have never seen you quite so fascinated by nature before, father."

Before the Red Viper can offer a rejoinder, Silore interjects: "It is peaceful here, like a lake on a calm summer day, but old memories of strife linger in the depths. Have they not had their fill of blood?" She motions sadly in the direction of the Heart Tree.

"Some have, their voices fading into slumber or turned to more constructive ends. Others will follow I am certain," you reply. Were this a less public place you might have hinted at Bloodraven's role, but for now your word alone is all you can give.

Thankfully that seems to be enough for the green-shrouded lady to move on to happier thoughts. "I am glad to see such green-growing places here in the heart of your power, Dragonlord. Your ancestors were less kindly to that which could not be turned fully to their will. They had gardens set in neatly ordered rows and lines so sharp as to pain the eye to look upon."

"My ancestors were foolish in many regards, my lady, their fate bespeaks of it," you answer her, seeing no reason to defend Valyria against one who has suffered from its wars. "I do not seek to raise it from its grave as so many suspect, but instead to build a new thing that will the be root and branch of all of us willing to stand against the foes of all life and reason."

"You give me hope that Oberyn of the line of Ny Sar did not misjudge you..." she begins.

"Ny Sar?" Tyene turns to her father chidingly. "Did you somehow forget to mention that we come from a land where the rabbits can die of exhaustion running between blades of grass in most places?"

Silore laughs, though there is a melancholy edge to it. "I have never been to this Dorne, a young realm risen up as I slumbered, so to me it seems less real than the fallen cities over which the grass grows. Perhaps some day I will see the Water Gardens I have heard so much about, and in turn you shall see the City of a Thousand Fountains, for while water may not sing with joy upon the stone its voice is still worthy of hearing."

"Just as long as no dead ancestors start dispensing advice, I get enough of that from my living kin," Prince Oberyn breaks the melancholy mood, intentionally you suspect.

"There are no unquiet dead in Ny Sar for her people live," Silore replies, a gentle smile on her face as she looks between Tyene and her father.

"One less thing to worry about as we reclaim the lost lands, then," you say. Then having long since learned why she has made the journey to Sorcerer's Deep, for Silore made no secret of it, you add. "Speaking of reclamation, I know you care for the folk of your lands as deeply as you do for any other part of them. Would you rule over them justly in accordance to the law of the land no different than a mortal lord or lady?" You will not stand for the pretensions of different laws between mortal and fey as Dusk Dancer asked for, but by the same token you see no reason to forbid the fey from holding the same powers and responsibilities as men.

Joy sparks in her eyes and she speaks quickly, like the rustle of leaves in a swift spring wind: "A mortal I am not, Dragonlord, so I would rule differently than most, with an eye for the passing of centuries not months, but there are those who could aid me in making up for being slow to act and change—estate managers they are called, or castellans in the Sunset Lands. I would seek to preserve as much as I could the beauty of nature and the rhythms of the land, though none would know want or hunger for it. Would you offer the lands onto me, under your laws, knowing this?"

What do you reply?

[] Agree, Silore gets a barony over the lands she has long watched over as a vassal of Oberyn Sandviper

[] Impose further conditions
-[] Write in

[] Refuse, she does not seem fit for the role


***​

It is Dany who joins you when searching for your next guest, for Oberyn had shared with you an interesting detail about Dirriz Bluecloak—she had grown in power from the echo of Amrelath's unveiling his true nature in the Circle, for though she is fey, a being a mischief and trickery, she is also a dragon moved by the instincts of elder blood. Supposedly the little blue mischief-maker came here to grow her hoard with the spoils of victory after a rather successful run of doing so in the Reach, be it by trickery, taking from those she felt disrespected by, or by genuinely helping those who were able to get in her good graces.

So far an interesting tale but one of no momentous weight, were it not for the fact that some of Dirriz's spells are of healing and hex-craft more commonly the work of gods, not arcane power. Something, someone, spoke to her through her dreams and called on her to gather a hoard and through that hoard to be granted ever-greater boons.

Neither you nor Dany can imagine Tiamat making use of so frivolous a servant, or of having them reveal themselves so openly, but even still the faint possibility of Her meddling is enough to impel urgency upon your steps.

You find the Faerie Dragon sunning herself on a bench surrounded by a handful of children. She is pretending to sleep and occasionally snorting a small puff of colorful smoke for the benefit of her audience.

Dany takes a deep breath and calls on her magic to see the truth of the azure spirit's nature."It's not Her, but I'm not sure who..." she shakes her head. "I'm just seeming a spiral twisting upon itself, a flickering flame growing ever steadier. It's certainly not the God of Lost Dragons either, and I know of no other who has dominion over the souls of dragonkind."

What do you do?

[] Question Dirriz about her powers
-[] Write in

[] Try to recruit her
-[] Write in

[] Write in


OOC: Dirriz was originally going to be an oracle of Astilabor, but I did not want to introduce another god out of the blue, there are already enough of those for you guys to interact with. So instead the Faerie Dragon is something of a mystery, since she is getting visions from something dragon-themed that is not Tiamat or Bahamut. Also I went back and changed Dirriz to female since that is how @Artemis1992 first made the character.
 
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