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Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization

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ctulhuslp said:
This, yet again, assumes we win.
Now entertain the thought that Nohon can, oh the wonder, leverage shorter logistical distance to defend their land; or border raid our attempts to build a railroad station too close.

In such a case, where opponent is actually competent, we are gonna lose a ton of PW and manpower on uncertain outcome.
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You are so afraid of losing at all that you won't take anything risky!

And this war, as it is, is the second least risky version of fighting the Republicans - the least risky would have been to get in on the Coalition of Monarchists in the last lightning round.

That reminds me I didn't vote yet, oops.


Kyberi troublemakers
[x] [Kyberi] 0 PW - Send in the Qeshyks (-1 Temp Army, -1 Temp Happiness, situation resolved)
Shoot the dissidents, get the Qeshyks used to fighting border wars again because we can use them as a stick to bring the other pastoralist nomads in line, harmony and contentment.

Republican crisis
[x] [Crisis] 2 PW - Declare war on the Tortun Republic (+1 Prestige, declare war on Tortun Republic, Ochruhr aligned segments of Tortun likely to declare war on you or otherwise demand reparations for insult)
Fight the Pubbies now, while their armies are threadbare, while their economies are still in tatters, take them by the wrists and hit them in the face with their own fists as hard and as often as you can.

We can smooth things over with the Austrians afterwards, when the threat of firebrand democracy isn't literally on our doorstep.


Paying for it all
[x] [Paying] 1 PW - Raise Taxes (-1 Temp SoL, -1 Temp Happiness)
-[x] [Paying] +1 Temp Armies

Raise War Taxes and fiddle with the army funding, then shoot the Republicans in their faces.
 
I don't know about you, but resource exploitation and industrialization is quicker and cheaper if we aren't as concerned about well-being of humans in general. Of course it's comparable to selling soul to evil to some degree, but it's the end we are focusing on right?
 
ctulhuslp said:
Now entertain the thought that Nohon can, oh the wonder, leverage shorter logistical distance to defend their land; or border raid our attempts to build a railroad station too close.
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Sure, they can attack railroads that were foolishly built too close as well as use their shorter logistical distance to defend their land against an enemy who's using railroads that aren't too close to leverage more powerful logistics.

Possibly while fighting the Hung. Possibly while being threatened by other parties, e.g. Mahaxia. Possibly while being unfamiliar with land war.
There are a lot of variables that can change over the course of two weeks irl.
 
I don't really want to fight the Republicans. I fundamentally agree with what we're doing and we as a nation do want to move in that direction. I don't want to come out in support of absolutism and tradition because that would mess up our own cultural development.
 
I would like to transition to a constitutional monarchy or something too, but with angry radical republicans on our border you know how getting Republicanized by them would go down? In blood and fire and nothing good.

Revolutionary Republicanism is more or less the worst way to adopt republican traditions.
 
@Academia Nut what philosophy did the Styrmyr and Kielmyr go with? Did they go with Absolutism or Stewardship?

Also what is the stewardship philosophy called? I want to call it something-ism, but I'm not sure that that something is.
 
Cornuthaum said:
You are so afraid of losing at all that you won't take anything risky!
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Well yes, because for every succesfull risky war there is a pathetic failure which bankrupts the country of manpower and resources.

And unlike others, who need resources of conquest to fuel their industries, we don't. All we, with out size and resources, need is education and time.

This is not land-starved countries of Europe, this is Russia. Land is one thing we have more than enough for.

Like. Why did you even think "you won't take a risky war" is something I would ever disagree with? Bad wars kill empires, being risk-averse is nothing more than a reasonable stance. At least for us, who do not starve for land or resources. It is other way around for Kielmyr or whoever, but.
 
Cornuthaum said:
I would like to transition to a constitutional monarchy or something too, but with angry radical republicans on our border you know how getting Republicanized by them would go down? In blood and fire and nothing good.

Revolutionary Republicanism is more or less the worst way to adopt republican traditions.
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If we go to war with them at all, I want a way to spin it as either self-defense or greed.

I'd rather not, though. We explicitly started this mess to get Europeans to fight each other. I don't want to wade into that and be weakened alongside them.
 
VoidZero said:
I don't know about you, but resource exploitation and industrialization is quicker and cheaper if we aren't as concerned about well-being of humans in general. Of course it's comparable to selling soul to evil to some degree, but it's the end we are focusing on right?
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Yeah, considering how closely most things are following rl, we can just get humans rights and all that stuff after we spend awhile exploiting a large portion of the world.

Considering our current way of progression we will likely end up as something close to a Western Capitalist Democracy so long as we don't collapse, so we can worry about pretending to care about the well being of humans then.
 
SeptimusMagisto said:
I'd rather not, though. We explicitly started this mess to get Europeans to fight each other. I don't want to wade into that and be weakened alongside them.
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We should have joined the Coalition and beaten the Pubbies down. Because while you might start a nice big forest fire to clean out old growth to allow for new life to flourish, you shouldn't let a fire rage out of control and jump into your forests and suddenly everything is on fire oh god this is not fine.
 
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Culture: Royal Absolutism, Stewardship & Constitutionalism in Eastern Syffryn
  • Apocrypha
    • HanEmpire said:
    @Academia Nut what philosophy did the Styrmyr and Kielmyr go with? Did they go with Absolutism or Stewardship?

    Also what is the stewardship philosophy called? I want to call it something-ism, but I'm not sure that that something is.
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    Kielmyr are a Constitutional Monarchy at this point, sprung from the various wheeling and dealing that was already part of the laws Queen Maggrit implemented to keep the Triple Monarchy from flying apart at the seams in its early days. They believe that citizens have a very strong duty to the crown, but also that it is the crown's responsibility to maintain its covenant with its people, from peasant to prince.

    The Styrmyr have always been militarily in a more precarious position, and thus took a more absolutist position.

    The 'stewardship' is something of a blend of ideas on rights and obligations, that posits that there is a tension between natural rights and the responsibilities towards society, and that this tension can be best managed by (noble/royal) intervention using expert means. It allows for more personal rights and freedoms than an absolutist stance, but is far more controlling and paternalistic than a more liberal reading of such philosophies.
     
  • Apocrypha
    • VoidZero said:
    But I genuinely care about the well-being of my taxpayers. :V
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    Then you should repeatedly refuse to listen to their concerns at all while simultaneously doing nothing to suppress them until they are about ready to storm your palace before taking the "Good Healthcare Social Reform". Even though they were asking for an increase in voting rights, that should mollify them enough for you to increase education next time.
     
    Academia Nut said:
    Then you should repeatedly refuse to listen to their concerns at all while simultaneously doing nothing to suppress them until they are about ready to storm your palace before taking the "Good Healthcare Social Reform". Even though they were asking for an increase in voting rights, that should mollify them enough for you to increase education next time.
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    I never understood Vicky 2 logic, and had a really bad time managing unemployment as China. ( used the easy westernize mod to bypass those :jackiechan: events.)
     
    Cornuthaum said:
    We should have joined the Coalition and beaten the Pubbies down. Because while you might start a nice big forest fire to clean out old growth to allow for new life to flourish, you shouldn't let a fire rage out of control and jump into your forests and suddenly everything is on fire oh god this is not fine.
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    I don't want to fight them, per se. But if they manage to knock some more of their enemies off the table, I wouldn't be against encouraging political agitators in Tortun regions currently under Hespranxer control.
     
    SeptimusMagisto said:
    I don't want to fight them, per se. But if they manage to knock some more of their enemies off the table, I wouldn't be against encouraging political agitators in Tortun regions currently under Hespranxer control.
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    By that point it's going to be far too late, and they will have drummed up far too much ideological fire and hammered it into their national consciousness.


    This is the last good chance to smother revolutionary republicanism from threatening the Dual Monarchy.
     
    Let's go with "Paternalism" as the overall label for this middle position.

    So Not!Europe is divided between 3 ideological spheres: Absolutists, Humanists, and Paternalists.

    Absolutists: Vortuga, Tortun Empire, Styrmyr
    Humanists: Hespranxer, Tortun Republic
    Paternalists: Kielmyr, Ymaryn, Sketch(?)

    Absolutism is a dead end and can die for all I care, but this Humanist rash is getting irksome indeed.
     
    Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization | Page 20 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 481-824]
    ##### NetTally 1.9.9

    Task: Kyberi
    [46][Kyberi] 1 PW - Send in proper negotiators and scholars to sort it all out (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, situation resolved, ???)
    [5][Kyberi] 0 PW - Send in the Qeshyks (-1 Temp Army, -1 Temp Happiness, situation resolved)
    Task: Crisis
    [30][Crisis] 1 PW - Send aid to the Kielmyr (-1 temp SoL, +1 Temp Trust)
    [15][Crisis] 0 PW - Remain neutral and watch (-1 Temp Trust)
    [6][Crisis] 2 PW - Declare war on the Tortun Republic (+1 Prestige, declare war on Tortun Republic, Ochruhr aligned segments of Tortun likely to declare war on you or otherwise demand reparations for insult)
    [1][Crisis] 3 PW - Declare war for the Tortun Republic (declare war on Ochruhr, -2 Trust, +1 Consciousness, anti-Republican forces break ties with you, Kielmyr likely declare war on you)
    Task: Paying
    [44][Paying] 0 PW - Bank and Business Fun
    -[25][Paying] +1 Temp IC
    -[22][Paying] +1 Temp SoL
    -[5][Paying] +1 PW + promises
    [5][Paying] 1 PW - Raise Taxes (-1 Temp SoL, -1 Temp Happiness)
    -[5][Paying] +1 Temp Armies
    [1][Paying] No need for change
    Total No. of Voters: 53

    You folks have a long way to go :V
     
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