Remove ads

We Are the Gods of a New World Order [Warhammer 50K ~ Warp God Simulator]

Reader mode
Aranfan said:
I think INTEGRATE falls into the trap of believing coexistence is impossible. We should try to meet them half way, instead of forcing them to conform with us. Diversity is a strength, and INTEGRATE is us discarding that strength.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

No, I'm telling you full stop.

This will fail.

Eldar are hard wired to be hyper arrogant disdainful pricks because they were engineered to win the biggest war in history through the power of being the biggest arrogant dicks there are. They will never integrate as a peer and will be deeply uncomfortable and seeking advantage until they have a dominant position. Historically, this has happened with every enclave of theirs, and even the best of their number always seeks to be in a position of strength even at the expense of their goals.

And they were never made to stand down because their creators died before the war ended.

Like, I tried to be clear here, but none of these are trap options. Integrate is a very expensive way of finishing what should have been done at the dawn of history, but you can do it because thanks to the Isha bits that were involved in the blender that made her up and you have the right Domains to pass on to make it possible.

If you don't take it... They won't go mad and kill you all--they have enough respect for VM that they'll hold their noses and tolerate the Monkeigh, but they won't be willing to cooperate with the Cult either unless you make them. This is a barrier that can't be crossed without effectively standing them down from a war footing.
 
[] Plan IDIC
-[] Project WORLDTREE
-[] Project UPLIFT
-[] Project EARTHBLOOD
-[] Project NOMAD
-[] Project HECTOR

[] Plan IDIC, rainforest edition
-[] Project WORLDTREE
-[] Project UPLIFT
-[] Project EARTHBLOOD
-[] Project RAINFOREST
-[] Project HECTOR

The most notable aspect of these two plans is that we don't fall into the trap of believing coexistance is impossible. We allow our Eldar co-religionists to remain themselves instead of demanding they change to suit our sensibilities. We retain the strength of diversity.

Edit: aaand ninja'd by word of god that I'm wrong. bleh.
 
DragonParadox said:
I think you underestimate the capacity of the Eldar to work in peace with other species, nurture versus nature. I do not believe that we should just jump on the bio-modding train to fix that is essentially social friction. Are we going to do this to every alien race we encounter with normal defined as human?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Bear in mind, this is also to give them quality of life improvements. Also, they're descendents of what are implied to be dark eldar who have all sorts of problems exasperated over generations. So I'm actually in favor of this megaproject.
 
Last edited:
[] Plan Everything except NOMAD
-[] Project WORLDTREE
-[] Project INTEGRATE
-[] Project UPLIFT
-[] Project EARTHBLOOD
-[] Project RAINFOREST
-[] Project HECTOR

[x] Plan Everything except RAINFOREST
-[x] Project WORLDTREE
-[x] Project INTEGRATE
-[x] Project UPLIFT
-[x] Project EARTHBLOOD
-[x] Project NOMAD
-[x] Project HECTOR

Edit: edited in X-s after moratorium end
 
Last edited:
[] Plan Diversity is Strength
-[] Project WORLDTREE
-[] Project UPLIFT
-[] Project EARTHBLOOD
-[] Project RAINFOREST
-[] Project HECTOR

It has everything but Nomad, which we can't afford and integrate which I find to be a trap pragmatically and morally repugnant to do to children. I honestly do not think I would ever be able to write another Niamh omake if integrate wins even though I like the character.
 
DragonParadox said:
It has everything but Nomad, which we can't afford and integrate which I find to be a trap pragmatically and morally repugnant to do to children. I honestly do not think I would ever be able to write another Niamh omake if integrate wins even though I like the character.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You just missed Alectai's post commenting on the topic.
 
jwolfe_beta said:
NOMAD gives us flight+transport capability while RAINFOREST is bigger mini-mechs. And flight is the first stepping stone toward void capability.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Actually, NOMAD gives us widespread transport capabilities, better Leviathans and air units. We've already got transport capability but it's expensive so suffers from limited availability. NOMAD ensures all units have access to it. RAINFOREST on the other hand doesn't give us Mini-mechs. It upgrades our Belladonnas into actual Space Marine equivalents. Which, as was so violently demonstrated in the previous update, they aren't by quite a margin right now.
jwolfe_beta said:
Maybe, I just don't like the idea of not using resources that might simply vanish after the timeskip.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And yeah, don't have WoG on what leftover resources do during timeskips, but based on what they are they probably elevate our base in those categories by a small amount. Though mega-projects of the appropriate type would be a much more efficient gain for said resource.
 
Last edited:
Again, because the point seems to have been missed.

Integrate is neither genocide nor taking away their 'Uniqueness'. The difference is that it's scaling down the insane complexity of their bodies and minds gracefully so that they don't unpredictably lose their minds in response to stressors because they're constantly in a state of hunter's anxiety at all times.

Yes, this means that they don't carry that same "The trivial efforts of our worst artisans infinitely outstrip the best minds your species has ever manifested" hyper competence anymore, but it means that they're not constantly seeking to dominate those around them if left to their own devices because they can't mentally handle the idea of being anything but the king of the hill.

They get a fairly considerable QoL increase out of this, not the least being the ability to actually relax and have children of their own without needing to have them popped out of a cloning vat or otherwise conduct a long and sophisticated ritual to construct a new war machine.
 
Last edited:
Alectai said:
Again, because the point seems to have been missed.

Integrate is neither genocide nor taking away their 'Uniqueness'. The difference is that it's scaling down the insane complexity of their bodies and minds gracefully so that they don't unpredictably lose their minds in response to stressors because they're constantly in a state of hunter's anxiety at all times.

Yes, this means that they don't carry that same "The trivial efforts of our worst artisans infinitely outstrip the best minds your species has ever manifested" hypercompetence anymore, but it means that they're not constantly seeking to dominate those around them if left to their own devices because they can't mentally handle the idea of being anything but the king of the hill.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That all sounds good and all but do the individual eldar consent to this? Because the very mindset that is the issue should mean they should never do so unless deceived or pressed into it. My position is that I value their individual free will more than I do long term social advantage and integration.

Again I'm not expecting my vote to win nor will I spend long arguing it.
 
jwolfe_beta said:
Honestly, the biggest limitation seemed to be firepower. In that we didn't have guns strong enough to actually hurt them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's also the fact that our defences are noticeably weaker due to how easily the Space Marines dealt with them. If it was just our weapons being weaker, then the Belladonas should have been able to bring down a handful. As it is, it looks like Project RAINFOREST is upgrading the Belladonnas to be equivalent to current generation Space Marines, rather than 40k SpaceMarines, splitting the models into Ranged and Melee whilst also creating a Veteran model which is probably the closest we can get to a Terminator. Hell, taking Project EARTHBLOOD at the same time should mean that we get a straight up Terminator equivalent, rather than a 'close enough' model. Admittedly, weapons are likely to still be our weak-point right now due to lacking the domains that give us better access to the Lightning or Plasma weapons.
 
DragonParadox said:
That all sounds good and all but do the individual eldar consent to this? Because the very mindset that is the issue should mean they should never do so unless deceived or pressed into it. My position is that I value their individual free will more than I do long term social advantage and integration.

Again I'm not expecting my vote to win nor will I spend long arguing it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Niamh does after it gets explained to her if you go that way, and the others defer to her.
 
Alectai said:
Yes, this means that they don't carry that same "The trivial efforts of our worst artisans infinitely outstrip the best minds your species has ever manifested" hypercompetence anymore, but it means that they're not constantly seeking to dominate those around them if left to their own devices because they can't mentally handle the idea of being anything but the king of the hill.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, i think that given the potential threats, letting them keep their hypercompetence would actually be a good thing, if we can get the option to go for it later. It may also have the benefit of giving us time to ease them into the idea, making it a somewhat less squicky option
 
Last edited:
Swampy said:
Well, i think that given the potential threats, letting them keep their hypercompetence would actually be a good thing, if we can get the option to go for it later. It may also have the benefit of giving us time to ease them into the idea, amking it a somewhat less squicky option
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well, if you like the idea of having a state that'll sometimes go and burn your frontier villages down because someone in there took a wrong turn one night and stumbled across a trail that one of them blazed earlier, which is a deadly offense that demands restitution in the form of the blood of the offender and their extended family...

Then sure, keep that hypercompetence. Just don't get upset when the Fair Folk act like the Fair Folk.

Remember, their response to other people being in the same neighborhood that they crawled in was to launch an ambush that would have killed everyone without saying a word, if they weren't benefitting from your Blessings.
 
and of all the domains we picked, individual freedom was not one of them. In fact, we seem to have only narrowly missed the multi-species-hivemind path
 
DragonParadox said:
OK... that's a little better. I would have preferred individual informed consent, but this is better than nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Can't really be helped, she's the oldest--because none of them live long enough to get old given those very same problems I just told you about.

(No proper healers means everyone who breaks a bone or otherwise gets hurt more than a surface level is a cripple who has to be left to die, or more frequently butchered to make weapons out of their undamaged bones, and that state of anxiety means they can't actually decide not to murder anything that intrudes, even if it can hurt or kill a bunch of them.)
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top