- Location
- Aotearoa
"... Wait, which of the two do you claim the book is?"
"Can't you tell?
...
Maybe you should wait here, while I get the ritual censor censer."
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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
"Can't you tell?
...
Maybe you should wait here, while I get the ritual censor censer."
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
"Dang, I can't find it..."
"That's because it's invisible - you need the censor censer sensor."
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
@Alliterate , "A Timely Warning"? That's an awesome snarky title for this. Did you come up with it?
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
It's funny and all, but now I can't stop thinking of the Sword of Warning that keeps going "I warned you!" about everything that happens.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Indeed it is, but I can claim no credit there, that's Boneys genius.
I had expanded it a little from the initial posting to hopefully give Cecile more of a narrative, even though it remains brief, so thanks for the threadmark Boney.
Except here it's Mathilde who keeps popping up in your head with scathing literary analysis, throughout any reading of works of substandard genre fiction
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Grey Wizards would be driven to total distraction trying to figure out her secret message. It's a good way to occupy the young'uns who clearly have nothing better to do.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
OoO, Omake idea;
-Lifted from somewhere and if you can tell without googling, you sir are a man of culture.
Magister Patriarch Algard gets Schooled on Need to Know
Scene, Newly promoted Magister Patriarch Algard who has been struggling to adapt to his new responsiblities is sitting in his office after recently returning from the palace where he has been asked to give a report about Grey Collage activities, his Pen Magister Grey is on his side and his permenent secretery Lord Magister Humpfrey Appfelbiene who has requested an urgent meeting right after his return from the palace.
M.P. Algard: Humpfrey sit sit, what is this about Magister Grey has said it was urgent.
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: Sir I heard that today in palace you have denied Lord Wolfgangs house is being watched by our order.
M.P. Algard: It is about that well obviously. It was one question today that I could give an clear, simple and strightfoward and honest answer.
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: Yes, Unfortunately, although the answer was indeed clear, simple and straightforward, there is some difficulty in justifiably assigning to it the fourth of the epithets you applied to the statement in as much as the precise correlation between the information you communicated and the facts insofar as they can be determined and demonstrated is such as to cause epistemological problems of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the Reikspiel language a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear.
M.P. Algard: Epistemological, what are you talking about?
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: You told a ... lie.
M.P. Algard: A lie?
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: A lie.
M.P. Algard: what do you mean a lie?
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: I mean you lied. I know it is a difficul concept to get across for a Grey Wizard. Erm. Let's see. Ah yes you did not told the truth.
M.P. Algard: You mean we were watching Lord Wolfgangs house?
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: We were.
M.P. Algard: We were. When did we stop?
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: *checks the expensive clockwork on the wall* about 17 minutes ago.
M.P. Algard: You can't call that lying.
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: What would you call the opposite of telling the truth.
M.P. Algard: I mean there was no intent! I would never knowingly mislead the Emperor.
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: None the less you have done so.
M.P. Algard: Wasn't my fault. I didn't know his house was being watched.
M. Grey: *interrupting* Magister Patriarch, you are deem to know you are ultimately responsible.
M.P. Algard: Why wasn't I told?
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: The Porter might not felt the need to inform you.
M.P. Algard: Why?
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: Perhaps he didn't know either. Or perhaps he has been advised that you did not need to know.
M.P. Algard: Wel I did need to know.
M. Grey:Apparently, the fact that you needed to know was not known at the time that the now known need-to-know was known. And therefore, those that needed to advise and inform the Porter perhaps felt that the information that he needed, as to whether to inform the highest authority of the known information, was not yet known. And therefore there was no authority for the authority to be informed, because the need-to-know was not at that time known or needed.
M.P. Algard: What?
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: We did not know that you would deny it on the Palace.
M.P. Algard: Well obviously I would deny it if I didn't know and were asked.
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: We did not know that you would be asked when you did not know.
M.P. Algard: That is bound to be asked when I didn't know If I didn't know
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: What?
M.P. Algard: What?
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: It was thought that it was better to not inform you. You see Lord Hans Wolfgang is part of the goverment that is supportive of the Colleges and it was tought better to not create distrust, we only tell you when you should be aware.
M.P. Algard: When is that?
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: You should be now be aware because you have just denied it.
M.P. Algard: Well it would have been rather more helpful if I had been awere before I denied it.
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: On the Contrary Magister Patriarch, If you had been aware before you denied it, you would not have denied it.
M.P. Algard: But I needed to know.
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: We do not always tell you when we are watching somebody when you need to know.
M. Grey: Because you see Magister Patriarch at times we need you to not to know.
M.P. Algard: *Looks at Humpfrey* Why have you decided I did not need to know?
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: I didn't,
M.P. Algard: Then who did?
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: Well, nobody. It was just that nobody has decided to tell you.
M.P. Algard: That is the same thing.
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: On the contrary. To decide to conceal information from you is a heavy burden for any Grey Wizard to shoulder but to decide not reveal information to you is routune procedure.
M.P. Algard: Humpfrey, I need to know everything.
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: Very well. *opens the file holder he had been holding* Stationery deliveries this week ...
M.P. Algard: Humpfrey, I mean important things.
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: Who should decide what is important.
M.P. Algard: Humpfrey how can you defend this cock up?
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: Well as you said in the last Electors meet, we got it wrong.
M.P. Algard: You got it wrong. * giving a stright stare at him*
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: I Magister Patriarch am merely your humble servant. The Porter has made the decision.
M.P. Algard: Is there any reason why I should not ask him to resign?
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: With respect you should only ask him resign when he makes a mistake which could have been seen at the time and not with the benefit of hinsight. But you see trouble has risen today because of your error of judgement in making this denial.
M.P. Algard: What?
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: You should not have denied something about which you did not know.
M.P. Algard: But that is your fault,you just have admitted it! Keeping secrets from Magister Patriarch
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: Not at all. System works perfectly well as long as Magister Patriarch tells to Magisterial Council everything he is going to say before he says it. But if he says it before clearing it with his councillors he has only himself to blame. With respect Magister Patriarch you must learn discretion.
M.P. Algard: I didn't know there was something to be discreet about.
L.M. Humpfrey Appfelbiene: In Grey Order there is always something to be discreet about.
M.P. Algard: Just get out. Out I say.
* So in the third month of his reign did Algard finally understood the gift of the most vile tasting moonshine left behind by his predecessor and got blind drunk. It would not be the last time.*
FIN.
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- Location
- Aotearoa
Missed an edit.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
You have seen nothing since it is already gone. It wasn't even there for a minute.Missed an edit.
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- Location
- Russia
Yes, minister? I only heard about it, but it sounds similar to it.
- Location
- Norway
Big cheers for Yes Minister. Two small mistakes which I feel it's worth explaining rather than simply correcting:
"Stationary" describes something that is standing still.
"Discrete" is when something is divided into separate parts.
"Stationery" is the class of stuff used for writing like quills, parchment, ink.
"Stationary" describes something that is standing still.
"Discreet" is when something is sneaky, or doesn't draw attention, like a Grey Magister who isn't a SV protagonist. (noun form: discretion)
"Discrete" is when something is divided into separate parts.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Hit series "Yes, Magister", with the follow up "Yes, Lady Magister".
Starring the Hochlander as Bernhardt and Johann as Herr Appfelgoldgelb.
Starring the Hochlander as Bernhardt and Johann as Herr Appfelgoldgelb.
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Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Thanks. I knew both but still keep missing it from time to time.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I wouldn't get your hopes up for any of the eastern nations.
Traders come back with spices and silk, not books. Boney's said this before.
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deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
It's from the follow-up series, Yes, Prime Minister
Here's the actual scene, if you were interested:
We have money and can let traders know of our interest, hell, we are rich enough to send our own agents along with the caravans. It will take a few years before any expeditions that know The Wizard wants books come back but in the meantime Kislevan, Arabyan and their associated literatures can become ours.
Time to go say hi to Clan Eshin. They have Cathian stuff and this plan can't backfire at all.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Are you willing to pay for a single book the amount of money the trader would get for an equivalent weight in spice? Because that's the issue: cargo capacity merchants spend on books is capacity they aren't spending on higher value-per-boxload items like spices, silk, or gems. So if you propose to make it worth their while...
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Spices aren't actually all that expensive especially for the small amount you'd lose for a book, because books aren't very heavy (generally speaking, it depends on the size of the book you're buying, of course). They make good cargo because they don't go off, and are small and light. They're also unattractive to thieves. And Mathilde is rich. Very much so. Her wealth isn't unlimited, but she almost certainly could afford to say "go buy me books in Cathay" or wherever. The problem would be finding books she wants, not importing books in general.
For instance, a little bit of research and converting gives a price of a little over 26gc per pound of saffron (saffron being the most expensive spice that I found a price for). Expensive, but not undoable.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
For what it's worth, Boney has said it might be possible to fund an expedition for books.
So the main issues would be the AP spent on learning Cathayan/Nipponese/Indie, and the presumably fairly high expense to send for them.
(And, you know, there's always the chance that we send an expedition and it doesn't make it, this being the Warhammer world and all, which would be added cost and waiting time)
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yup. A slim Rare Esoteric probably already costs more than it's weight in spices. Especially when you consider that a silk road traveller isn't getting retail price for their spices.
Fayhem
Definitely not an escaped SCP
- Location
- At large
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Speaking of trade with the East, there's something I've always wondered about vis-a-vis the Colleges. The ritual Impossible March of the Damned allows for overnight travel to anywhere with a land connection to the location the ritual is originally cast, it can (and should) include multiple wizards and the total number of people who can be transported is the product of the Magic characteristic of every wizard involved. Which means it scales dramatically with just a few more wizards.
So if I were a schemey Magister Patriarch type*, especially of a College with a lot of wealth (e.g. the aptly named Golds), I would round up a bunch of high-Magic wizards, make sure they all know the ritual, and then transport a thousand (or a couple thousand, or whatever) people to Ind or Cathay overnight. While carrying high-portability wealth like jewels to buy up spices and silk and such before heading back the same way.
Sure, rituals aren't strictly speaking safe, but it's only half as difficult for every supporting caster as for the main caster - and for the main caster it's only slightly more difficult than the Body Gilded ritual that e.g. Johann has used in DL. Which means it may not be a sure thing, but it's sure enough that Magisters can keep doing it repeatedly and not be regarded as suicidal or stupid. And the two principal hurdles to capitalizing on the incredibly profitable trade with the East are the length and especially the incredible hazard of the journey. This ritual may introduce the risk of the ritual, but it completely sidesteps those other obstacles. Which IMO sounds incredibly worth it. At least half of the people transported have to be soldiers, but honestly you'd want some mercs or whatever for protection anyway. And their mounts, hilariously, do not count against the ritual's transportation limit.
I'm just saying, it seems like you could make an absolutely obscene killing on that. You'd actually probably need to ration the sale of the goods you bring back to maintain artificial scarcity De Beers style, you could bring back so much compared to the standard most attempted traders with Cathay/Ind seem to manage in canon.
*Or, say, Lady Magister type. Just hypothetically.
So if I were a schemey Magister Patriarch type*, especially of a College with a lot of wealth (e.g. the aptly named Golds), I would round up a bunch of high-Magic wizards, make sure they all know the ritual, and then transport a thousand (or a couple thousand, or whatever) people to Ind or Cathay overnight. While carrying high-portability wealth like jewels to buy up spices and silk and such before heading back the same way.
Sure, rituals aren't strictly speaking safe, but it's only half as difficult for every supporting caster as for the main caster - and for the main caster it's only slightly more difficult than the Body Gilded ritual that e.g. Johann has used in DL. Which means it may not be a sure thing, but it's sure enough that Magisters can keep doing it repeatedly and not be regarded as suicidal or stupid. And the two principal hurdles to capitalizing on the incredibly profitable trade with the East are the length and especially the incredible hazard of the journey. This ritual may introduce the risk of the ritual, but it completely sidesteps those other obstacles. Which IMO sounds incredibly worth it. At least half of the people transported have to be soldiers, but honestly you'd want some mercs or whatever for protection anyway. And their mounts, hilariously, do not count against the ritual's transportation limit.
I'm just saying, it seems like you could make an absolutely obscene killing on that. You'd actually probably need to ration the sale of the goods you bring back to maintain artificial scarcity De Beers style, you could bring back so much compared to the standard most attempted traders with Cathay/Ind seem to manage in canon.
*Or, say, Lady Magister type. Just hypothetically.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
That does require them being able to find and purchase said rare esoteric tome, though.
I expect if we do send an expedition we'll get back a fair number of duds. I'm not sure there's anyone we could hire that would be, well, an expert in Cathayan texts such that they can tell what's actually useful.
There's this previous quote by Boney. (Emphasis mine)
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