- Location
- Finland
Yes.Windsight: Am I a joke to you?
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
ok, I've tried to not talk about this. but it keeps coming up.
learning more about the waystones: how to fix, turn off, turn on, recreate and use. is amazing and worth doing.
but it is not the same as learning about the throne of power or what The high king is using all that magic for: it might show use how he is doing so, and that he might be using it to power something.
its a silly logic jump that I keep seeing since we saw the POV form the high king: mathy doesn't have the information we do.
there is no connecting dotes right now from 'high king is hoarding magic' to 'powering the throne that is vital for the continued existence of the dwarfs'
without meta knowledge, a far more likely conclusion from the waystone project is 'secret weapon' or 'personal defence of just his hold at the expense of the others.'
we might find the missing dote later, but we dont have it now, and finding that dote is not the goal of the waystone project. its finding out more about waystones.
I really wish people would stop making that logic jump.
edit: the other annyoing one is 'if we learn enough, the high king will spill the beans'
the high king took an oath, no one but his heir.
not :no one but his heir unless someone figured it out on their own.
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[x] Ambassador-at-Large to the Karaz Ankor
[x] Loremaster-at-Large of Karak Eight Peaks
Both of these seem like they would be similar, except we would be boosting the standing of different groups. They would let us travel around the dwarf kingdoms looking at things, which could help with this next option:
[x] The Waystone Project
Very interested in this one. While the colleges would work on this if we don't, we have a lot of dwarf cred to bring to bear. Might be able to wrangle some info from the king, or at least some assistance from the runelore masters
[x] Governor-General of Swamp Town
Just really want to know what's up here. (Also the small matter that lizardmen are one of my favorite factions. We might even be able to reconnect with the new world dwarfholds!)
[x] Spymaster of Wissenland
More potential skaven shenanigans? I could dig it. Also the chance that we would get wrapped up in internal politics, which could be messy. Although that does fit with the quest title.
Honestly, all of the potential options are great. I trust Boney could make any one of them thrilling. Can't wait to see where we end up!
[x] Loremaster-at-Large of Karak Eight Peaks
Both of these seem like they would be similar, except we would be boosting the standing of different groups. They would let us travel around the dwarf kingdoms looking at things, which could help with this next option:
[x] The Waystone Project
Very interested in this one. While the colleges would work on this if we don't, we have a lot of dwarf cred to bring to bear. Might be able to wrangle some info from the king, or at least some assistance from the runelore masters
[x] Governor-General of Swamp Town
Just really want to know what's up here. (Also the small matter that lizardmen are one of my favorite factions. We might even be able to reconnect with the new world dwarfholds!)
[x] Spymaster of Wissenland
More potential skaven shenanigans? I could dig it. Also the chance that we would get wrapped up in internal politics, which could be messy. Although that does fit with the quest title.
Honestly, all of the potential options are great. I trust Boney could make any one of them thrilling. Can't wait to see where we end up!
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It can force Thorgrim's hand. If we find out enough about the Waystones to turn them off Thorgrim will be faced with a situation where for the good of the Karak Ankor he would have to tell Belegar. I don't know how he would break in that situation but it seems a bit disingenuous to say that finding out about Waystones will have no implications for the thing the waystones are running.
- Location
- lurking
What a good time to get into this quest. Love the writing style and the way it deals with the setting. Also, the threat is a goldmine and I am very thankful for the Burrito threadmark, for I would have otherwise missed that madness
for voting, I am really interested in these, mostly because it would give Mathilde environments to run wild in. Imagine what this derpwizard could do to Altdorf as an official tutor of the prince. Kinda favouring The Markgraf position rn since it would allow her to comb through the ruins of Drakenhof and similar fun things
[X] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
[X] Bodyguard and Tutor to Prince Mandred
[X] Governor-General of Swamp Town
[X] Border Princess of the Howling River
for voting, I am really interested in these, mostly because it would give Mathilde environments to run wild in. Imagine what this derpwizard could do to Altdorf as an official tutor of the prince. Kinda favouring The Markgraf position rn since it would allow her to comb through the ruins of Drakenhof and similar fun things
[X] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
[X] Bodyguard and Tutor to Prince Mandred
[X] Governor-General of Swamp Town
[X] Border Princess of the Howling River
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- Location
- Earth
A large part of why I want to stay in Karak Eight Peaks is the amount of infrastructure we've invested in here. Whether that's personal or institutional or in the literal towers we've built. I want Mathilde's story to be one of not only accomplishing great deeds and making a name for herself, but also of making a place and building a home for herself. It's something we were on our way to doing in Stirland, and it's something we're doing now. Except this time, we're not getting fired.
- Location
- Oklahoma
Just seems like a really odd line of reasoning to me. 'We can't become better friends with this person so there's no point in interacting with them again' is video game logic.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
You need to remove the space between [ and X if you want the tally to count your vote.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
One way he could do it is to abdicate without swearing his heir to secrecy on this one specific detail of this one specific topic and then immediately go Slayer. I... can't currently think of a different way. Dawi gonna Dawi.
Hello and welcome!
The voting should look like this: [X]
That means without amy spaces within the brackets. Capitalisation of the X doesn't matter though.
Let's be honest. Mathilde has never really been a fan of the vow of poverty. She respects its use in ensuring certain members of the order don't start mindholing at random, but she's always shown a huge preference for the finer things in life. See her grandiose living arrangements (sunken palace, towers).
She's also of the opinion that 'immediate and practical' funds covers her obscene bank account, because sometimes you absolutely need to drop thousands of gold on a bunch of magically interesting artefacts at once. This would not be an opinion shared by others.
@Garlak A bit late to this debate, but what really offended Belegar was not Throgrimm's use of the word "Foothold". It was the context surrounding it. Thorgrimm's reaction was not "amazing, you've got a foothold, let's get reinforcements in there so you can expand it." it was "amazing, you've got a foothold, if you hold out long enough for reinforcements to arrive we can wipe out more grudges" with the implied ending "...before you're forced out".
This offended Belegar because he took that to mean that Thorgrimm had never really believed in Belegar's cause (reclaim Karak 8 peaks), but only how the attempt could advance Thorgrimm's agenda (avenge all the grudges he can). Belegar's attitude was exacabated by the fact that he'd been successful beyond his wildest dreams and was returning to report stupendous, ludicrous success. This was a huge bucket of ice water all over his dreams.
In all honesty, Thorgrimm's attitude is understandable, even if not phrased the best diplomatically. Especially if you know what he does. Even if you don't know about the Runes of Valaya failing, the initial expedition was stupidly, ludicrously successful. Far beyond any reasonable expectations.
Honestly, I'd say the biggest issue (up until we found out about the waystones) was that Belegar was gradually beginning to despair of his own dream. He was ludicrously successful, and that gave him the chance to see the enormity of the task to come. To worry that like Thorgrimm, all he was doing was rushing headlong towards his people's death because of obsession with the past. It made him dislike himself, and dislike the direction he saw in the current Karaz Ankor.
To me that isn't an issue because:
1) Mathilde has a lot of money even if our debt to Botrek isn't cancelled. Especially if we stop going hog wild on equipment (or book) purchase for a turn or two. She has so much money she stopped picking up her income because it's useless to her because she's so rich. She has a passive income of 225 crowns per turn (EIC 175, Estate 50) even when unemployed. That's plenty to fund us for a while.
and 2) the research sabbatical isn't intended to be a super long term thing. I'd expect the sabbatical to be 3 or 4 turns at most.
The intent of it is to get on top of our horrendous, ridiculous backlog so it isn't quite so overwhelming and we aren't leaving tonnes of potentially huge magical advances and plot threads on the floor. Especially since people voted to increase the research queue again in the Chaos Dwarf city.
Actually investigate the Tongs option and put to bed the whole "is it totally useless?" debate. Put 3 actions into AV and we can literally complete every experiment we know of except directly weaponizing it. Or get the apparitions project completed, or research the coin. I just want to get to the point where we aren't literally unable shake loose actions to work on our major long running plots for multiple turns. I don't mind if it only lasts even 2 turns if it meant we actually devote all our free personal actions (or more if we have our wizards along) to making tangible progress with these long running plot threads.
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That is a possibility. But a complex enough understanding of Waystone means we can make an inference about what it's being used for. The exact details might be beyond us, but being able to say "he is not stealing from you" isn't.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Well... One of the options is our girlfriend. Other than that, who are we really clinging to? Our two Goldies? Our Dragon Chair? Our self-heating jacuzzi? The massive Library boon that many here haven't lost sight of?
Yeah, I guess there actually is some stuff worth clinging to.
Considering that it has around a hundred reactions and comparing that to the couple hundred votes that usually come in is pretty indicative that a plurality of actively discussing voters have seen it and let it pass without comment so far, it's not an unreasonable assumption that there is consensus.
Your personal opinion on what may or may not count as research is one thing, but delineating between research undertaken because it's Mathilde's job and research undertaken because it's prioritized over anything else Mathilde could do with her time is very useful in determining the motivations behind the relative distribution of actions. Why someone does something is often just as if not more important than what they've done when making statements about their identity.
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- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Oh sure, that's a reasonable argument. I'm of the opinion that it's a short term versus long term consideration in that we can build up infrastructure elsewhere too, and learn new things in the meantime, but it's certainly valid.
(I'd actually quite like to have K8P be a place we return to between other jobs.)
Nah, that's not what I mean. It'd be nice to make new friends, but Mathilde can't be better-respected by the Karaz Ankor which is what determines our access to runed equipment etc.
Unless you're making that comparison with the Karaz Ankor deliberately, in which case with respect it doesn't really fit.
It's also only half of the point. The other half is that we're living in a place we know a lot about. Mechanically this means that we aren't gaining levels in the relevant Diplomacy skills sure, but perhaps more importantly it also means that we aren't seeing and learning new things as readers, either.
I work in software development, and it's agreed by many in the field (though I'm sure not everyone) that if you're not learning new things where you are - new technologies, languages etc. - it might be time to move on, and I feel a similar principle applies here.
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- Location
- Earth
I expect that to go up once we get the EIC to actually produce gunpowder instead of only stockpiling niter.
Noitaerc
(Nexus Force) (Assembly) (Verified Minifig)
- Location
- Currently stranded on Mata Nui island
[X] Loremaster-at-Large of Karak Eight Peaks
As long as we can stay in contact with friends and Panoramia.
Why? Because I have ideas for that job:
Quest of the Lost Holds: Investigate lost/abandoned Holds
-Requires learning how to work the stone, dig, make stable tunnels, orient oneself, navigate and survive underground. If we are going to explore Holds alone, it will be needed. That and a proper Dawi should at least know the basics.
-Requires mining equipment. Maybe commission a rune pick and (rune) lantern, if such thing is possible.
-Three 'simple' targets: Karak Zorn, Kraka Drakk and Middle Mountains.
-Possible recon targets: many minor lost Holds. Infiltrate, investigate, map and maybe cause trouble.
-Unrealistic targets: Karak Ungor, Silver Pinnacle and Mount Gundabad. Important and/or big Holds that were lost.
Option A - We go to the Southlands, searching for Karak Zorn and messing with vampires in the area* using the secrets of Dhar with nobody around to notice. With Shadowsteed, we can go much farther than anyone. If Shadowsteed as issues with the sand, combine with Rite of Way.
Pre-requirements:
-Spells against the heat and the sun of the desert. (Create or learn, or buy enchanted item.)
-Undeniable proof that we are Dwarf-friend (or Dawi) so that if the Dwarfs of Karak Zorn survived, they won't consider us an enemy or a vampire.
-Planning the trip.
*How to mess with vampires:
Mathilde: uses Spell of Unravelling
Vampires and Undead in the area: Deleted
Option B - We can go back north and dig a very discrete (and easily hidden) entrance until we reach the interior of Kraka Drakk, or we use Substance of Shadow to pass through the stone unti we get inside if possible. Once in, we search to see if anyone survived and maybe are digging toward Karak Kadrin, the Underway or just the Empire (because they would not be sitting on their asses). Report what we find if we can't simply help them reach the Empire and then the Karaz Ankor. If no survivor is found, help recover anything important. Maybe the masters of their craft used their last days to write down their knowledge to deny its loss to their enemies.
Option C - Find out what happened to the Hold of the Middle Mountains. Discover the source of the curse that made the Dwarfs leave and try to take care of it if possible. It would allow the Dwarfs to reclaim an hold in friendly territory (minus the Beastmen in the area*) and remove a potential issue in the middle of the Empire. And if we found the surviving population of Kraka Drakk, then this could then be their new home should they wish. Not as far south as other holds, with the exception of Karak Vlag (too paranoid for any immigrant) or Karak Dum (no, just no).
*But then, that is why I proposed a research project into the Beast-paths and the Worldroot. If the first are indeed the second but dead, then it means that we could possibly block the damn things by building inside the dead Worldroots with stone with assistance of the Dwarfs. This prevent the Beastmen from being able to move as freely and form large heards as easily. Long term project, but just fortifying important locations could be incredibly useful. It could also give a use to the grapeshot cannon.
Go for Karak Varn, see what we can find, support Zhufbar's operations there. Cause merry hell on the Skavens by using tactics and spells such as the ones used at Und-Uzgar. Terrify them without killing any of them but in such a way they can only wonder what you are waiting for before doing something that will cause an enormous panic in the area to the point they kill themselves and the tales scares the Skavens away. Maybe using Mathilde's Magical Matrix to cause maximum trouble, to the point Skavens don't trust survivors anymore.
Insert Indiana Jones or Tomb Raider (not the reboot) music when appropriate.
If we pass by Sylvania, we could discreetly unravel a bit of the local Dhar with the Second Secret of Dhar and let the effect spread. And then we can check in on that regularly to see how it goes.
As long as we can stay in contact with friends and Panoramia.
Why? Because I have ideas for that job:
Quest of the Lost Holds: Investigate lost/abandoned Holds
-Requires learning how to work the stone, dig, make stable tunnels, orient oneself, navigate and survive underground. If we are going to explore Holds alone, it will be needed. That and a proper Dawi should at least know the basics.
-Requires mining equipment. Maybe commission a rune pick and (rune) lantern, if such thing is possible.
-Three 'simple' targets: Karak Zorn, Kraka Drakk and Middle Mountains.
-Possible recon targets: many minor lost Holds. Infiltrate, investigate, map and maybe cause trouble.
-Unrealistic targets: Karak Ungor, Silver Pinnacle and Mount Gundabad. Important and/or big Holds that were lost.
Option A - We go to the Southlands, searching for Karak Zorn and messing with vampires in the area* using the secrets of Dhar with nobody around to notice. With Shadowsteed, we can go much farther than anyone. If Shadowsteed as issues with the sand, combine with Rite of Way.
Pre-requirements:
-Spells against the heat and the sun of the desert. (Create or learn, or buy enchanted item.)
-Undeniable proof that we are Dwarf-friend (or Dawi) so that if the Dwarfs of Karak Zorn survived, they won't consider us an enemy or a vampire.
-Planning the trip.
*How to mess with vampires:
Mathilde: uses Spell of Unravelling
Vampires and Undead in the area: Deleted
Option B - We can go back north and dig a very discrete (and easily hidden) entrance until we reach the interior of Kraka Drakk, or we use Substance of Shadow to pass through the stone unti we get inside if possible. Once in, we search to see if anyone survived and maybe are digging toward Karak Kadrin, the Underway or just the Empire (because they would not be sitting on their asses). Report what we find if we can't simply help them reach the Empire and then the Karaz Ankor. If no survivor is found, help recover anything important. Maybe the masters of their craft used their last days to write down their knowledge to deny its loss to their enemies.
Option C - Find out what happened to the Hold of the Middle Mountains. Discover the source of the curse that made the Dwarfs leave and try to take care of it if possible. It would allow the Dwarfs to reclaim an hold in friendly territory (minus the Beastmen in the area*) and remove a potential issue in the middle of the Empire. And if we found the surviving population of Kraka Drakk, then this could then be their new home should they wish. Not as far south as other holds, with the exception of Karak Vlag (too paranoid for any immigrant) or Karak Dum (no, just no).
*But then, that is why I proposed a research project into the Beast-paths and the Worldroot. If the first are indeed the second but dead, then it means that we could possibly block the damn things by building inside the dead Worldroots with stone with assistance of the Dwarfs. This prevent the Beastmen from being able to move as freely and form large heards as easily. Long term project, but just fortifying important locations could be incredibly useful. It could also give a use to the grapeshot cannon.
Go for Karak Varn, see what we can find, support Zhufbar's operations there. Cause merry hell on the Skavens by using tactics and spells such as the ones used at Und-Uzgar. Terrify them without killing any of them but in such a way they can only wonder what you are waiting for before doing something that will cause an enormous panic in the area to the point they kill themselves and the tales scares the Skavens away. Maybe using Mathilde's Magical Matrix to cause maximum trouble, to the point Skavens don't trust survivors anymore.
Insert Indiana Jones or Tomb Raider (not the reboot) music when appropriate.
If we pass by Sylvania, we could discreetly unravel a bit of the local Dhar with the Second Secret of Dhar and let the effect spread. And then we can check in on that regularly to see how it goes.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
How does this information dim his doubt and despair? All he knows is that he found something apparently valuable enough that Thorgrim finally wants to keep him around so he can keep stealing it.
Except if you mean that his new anger is enough to mask his doubt on a purely emotional basis.
If she can't suss out enough detail to be able to both say "the energy is being sent back out again towards all Holds, old and new" and "the amount of energy being thrown around both inwards and outwards is so much that it can't be something as minor or sinister as surveillance" then she won't be able to make any assertions regarding potential theft. Hell, even what is currently happening could be considered theft. If I take your money without asking you because I need it to literally save the world then I'm still stealing from you. Even if you would throw double the amount at me if only I would dare to tell you what I need it for and ask for your consent.
Which is exactly why we should study the network, so we can be in a position to learn those things.