Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Idk about that ... Creation of sapient life seems both out of Ghyran's wheelhouse and the setting's general power level.
All you need is a magic item of Ghur to temporarily provide the needed body part. The bear claw spell shows that using specific body parts is viable. Dragomas is famed for his transformation into an intelligent species. How hard can it be to make a magic ring that gives the wearer a different body part of their own species?
 
*This thread* - Stupid runesmiths not taking apprentices. Of course rune knowledge is constantly lost.

*Also this thread* - I'm against taking an apprentice because it will eat into my action economy.


I'm absolutely for taking an apprentice, btw. Irresponsible to be holding so much knowledge and not consider passing it on because it might be inconvenient. That's literally why the Karaz Ankor is fading.

Runesmiths are not all quest characters from what I know. I'm against and apprentice for entirely OOC reasons, I find it boring
 
*This thread* - Stupid runesmiths not taking apprentices. Of course rune knowledge is constantly lost.

*Also this thread* - I'm against taking an apprentice because it will eat into my action economy.

Counterpoint - Mathilde writes a paper pretty much every turn to communicate her knowledge to the future. Papers can be read by many wizards into the indefinite future, rather than knowledge passed only to a single apprentice.
 
Counterpoint - Mathilde write a paper pretty much every turn to communicate her knowledge to the future. Papers can be read by many wizards into the indefinite future, rather than knowledge passed only to a single apprentice.

This is why peer review and university is a superior method of skill transmission. It can teach a lot more people than apprenticeships and can restart the line of expertise with only minor loss if the chain of apprenticeship is broken.
 
There are thing we can't put into papers.
There are things we could get we would not be allowed to put into papers.
With the right apprentice, the number of both will be less.
 
*This thread* - Stupid runesmiths not taking apprentices. Of course rune knowledge is constantly lost.

*Also this thread* - I'm against taking an apprentice because it will eat into my action economy.


I'm absolutely for taking an apprentice, btw. Irresponsible to be holding so much knowledge and not consider passing it on because it might be inconvenient. That's literally why the Karaz Ankor is fading.
Mathilde: An apprentice, do I have to feed and water it? If I forget about it for awhile will it be ok? It won't try to kill me like my last pet, I don't think trapping it in a mirror will work again.
 
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Well, can't say I expected smutty doujin ideas in thread but I suppose it was bound to happen one of these days.
Look, there are only so many ways to increase the thread's smol magic girl factor. Making babies was an active topic of discussion, and non-Dhar roads to immortality wasn't.

I support getting an apprentice. They can write papers.
 
There are thing we can't put into papers.
There are things we could get we would not be allowed to put into papers.
With the right apprentice, the number of both will be less.

There's not much we wouldn't "be allowed" to put into papers; it's only a matter of how restricted the reading list is. (And anything on a restricted reading list wouldn't be told to any apprentice until after they've made magister anyway.) An apprentice would definitely not affect that one.

Things we "can't" put into papers we can at least take actions to attempt to adapt into a magical paradigm that can be put into papers. It takes some actions and has a chance of failure, but so does training an apprentice. That Shadow Knives mastery, for instance. If we have a choice between turning "Shadow Sword" into a spell that any Grey Wizard can use and teaching it to one apprentice, I'm more for the former.

Which isn't to say that I'm absolutely "no apprentice ever" but honestly it still feels too early. Maybe when Mathilde is 50+ I'd think about it.

I support getting an apprentice. They can write papers.

Since when can they write papers?
 
I know the talk about Stirlandian peasants remembering Uncle Thugni are mostly joking, but are the Dwarfs actually aware of our origin story?

Because they might have to poke, and I'm not sure about what's the appropriate punishment for attempted lynching of a female dwarf child that grew up to be Mathilde, but it's probably more goats that they have on hand.

So it's probably a good time to remind Regimand of that time he found us floating in a basket as a baby (in a trough of course, no tempting Manhavok).

Also, regarding apprentices, i would rather find an interesting character and getting them as an apprentice than actually looking for one, like that rejected EIC candidate.
 
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Any one know where that grey wizard document is the one that basically does what ever you need it to be?

Why yes, here the proof that mathilde descends from Thungni.
 
It kinda looks to me like Mathilde could be the lynchpin to wrench open Runesmithing lore access, generally.

So, obviously Mathilde is not born of a Dwarf of the Runesmithing line - human gal with human parents, and all. But her soul has been deemed as Dwarvish by the Ancestor Council - and that soul that is deemed dwarf would have to have had a before, before the current human now. What if that prior iteration of the soul was in the Runesmithing lineage? What if multiple prior iterations of the soul were Runesmiths? More generally, can you prove that a reincarnated Dwarf soul is stealing Runesmithing lore, instead of remembering it from a past Dwarf life? Further, should a soul be judged for being stolen - is a Dwarf babe stolen and raised by Skaven, for example, ineligible to be reclaimed and restored to their proper rights from before the theft? Should, then, a mortal be judged for a God's actions against their soul?

To be clear I am NOT advocating doing this, I do NOT believe it likely to work - but relative to trying to get Mathilde official access to Dwarven Runesmithing knowhow, I don't see a better option that isn't absurdly more risky than 'get into lengthy political and legal debates to convince ruleslawyers to judge the way you want on a matter they don't have a clear answer on'.

And now, I wait for WHF loremasters to come out and explain why this is actually completely nonviable.
 
It kinda looks to me like Mathilde could be the lynchpin to wrench open Runesmithing lore access, generally.

So, obviously Mathilde is not born of a Dwarf of the Runesmithing line - human gal with human parents, and all. But her soul has been deemed as Dwarvish by the Ancestor Council - and that soul that is deemed dwarf would have to have had a before, before the current human now. What if that prior iteration of the soul was in the Runesmithing lineage? What if multiple prior iterations of the soul were Runesmiths? More generally, can you prove that a reincarnated Dwarf soul is stealing Runesmithing lore, instead of remembering it from a past Dwarf life? Further, should a soul be judged for being stolen - is a Dwarf babe stolen and raised by Skaven, for example, ineligible to be reclaimed and restored to their proper rights from before the theft? Should, then, a mortal be judged for a God's actions against their soul?

To be clear I am NOT advocating doing this, I do NOT believe it likely to work - but relative to trying to get Mathilde official access to Dwarven Runesmithing knowhow, I don't see a better option that isn't absurdly more risky than 'get into lengthy political and legal debates to convince ruleslawyers to judge the way you want on a matter they don't have a clear answer on'.

And now, I wait for WHF loremasters to come out and explain why this is actually completely nonviable.

The GM was asked that. the short answer is bodies have lineages not souls. Dwarfs are rather literal minded and damn the edge case. No proven descent of Thungi no lore.
 
There's not much we wouldn't "be allowed" to put into papers; it's only a matter of how restricted the reading list is. (And anything on a restricted reading list wouldn't be told to any apprentice until after they've made magister anyway.) An apprentice would definitely not affect that one.

Things we "can't" put into papers we can at least take actions to attempt to adapt into a magical paradigm that can be put into papers. It takes some actions and has a chance of failure, but so does training an apprentice. That Shadow Knives mastery, for instance. If we have a choice between turning "Shadow Sword" into a spell that any Grey Wizard can use and teaching it to one apprentice, I'm more for the former.

Which isn't to say that I'm absolutely "no apprentice ever" but honestly it still feels too early. Maybe when Mathilde is 50+ I'd think about it.



Since when can they write papers?
Liber Mortis, the knowledge from Gold college.
Arcane Khazalid and any dwarf religion/rune secrets.

We can't place these into papers, but an apprentice we have trained and trust, we could teach much more, and hope they manage to do something with them.
 
Liber Mortis, the knowledge from Gold college.
Arcane Khazalid and any dwarf religion/rune secrets.

We can't place these into papers, but an apprentice we have trained and trust, we could teach much more, and hope they manage to do something with them.
Ah, I'm pretty sure we can't teach most of those things, trust or not.
But i get your point.
 
*checks the votes*

Hmm...




Shady Dark Elf Merchant: "Heh, heh, heh. Got a selection of good things on sale, stranger!"

*shows dangerous magical artifacts*

Mathilde: "I'lL TaKE YoUr EnTIRe STocK!"
 
Liber Mortis, the knowledge from Gold college.
Arcane Khazalid and any dwarf religion/rune secrets.

We can't place these into papers, but an apprentice we have trained and trust, we could teach much more, and hope they manage to do something with them.

Each of those is a different situation, but rather than take it one-by-one I'll just say that training someone is not a prerequisite for trusting them or a guarantee of trusting them. I don't think I'd teach any of that to an apprentice; maybe a former apprentice who has completed their journeying and come back as a magister. Or Mathilde could find a Magister she trusts and share with them right now.

But for instance, there's nothing stopping Mathilde from sharing the Liber Mortis knowledge with Johann or Panoramia right now if she wanted to. Does she trust them not to tell on her? Do we as players?

Some hypothetical dwarf secrets might require jumping through an apprenticeship hoop to share, but we don't even know any of those right now, so that's a bit cart before the horse.
 
Also, again, no one has proven that dwarf belief in reincarnation is actually correct and not mere religious belief. No one has proven that Ranald actually stole dwarf soul and incarnated it into baby Mathilde, one random peasant girl amongst many at the point, nor anyone has proven that Mathilde got a former dwarf soul one way or another at all, assuming that said reincarnation is even possible. No one has proven that dwarf souls are different from human souls on a level that is not fully amounted to bioiogy and so therefore dwarf soul in human body would be different from regular human soul, assuming previous hypothesis is correct. No one has proven that whatever from lineage of Thungni that enables a dwarf to learn runes is retained when a dwarf's soul is flung into the warp and reincarnated, more so in a non-dwarf body, again, which is possible only assuming reincarnation belief has any relation to reality.
Seriously, don't take religion and tradition as a set in stone scientifically proven truth. "Mathilde is a dwarf by soul" is really a legal curiosity at the point, which has only social, not metaphysical consequences.
And there's still a possibility that Boney pulled a big prank on us and this proclamation in time would be threadmarked as Apocrypha.
 
Each of those is a different situation, but rather than take it one-by-one I'll just say that training someone is not a prerequisite for trusting them or a guarantee of trusting them. I don't think I'd teach any of that to an apprentice; maybe a former apprentice who has completed their journeying and come back as a magister. Or Mathilde could find a Magister she trusts and share with them right now.

But for instance, there's nothing stopping Mathilde from sharing the Liber Mortis knowledge with Johann or Panoramia right now if she wanted to. Does she trust them not to tell on her? Do we as players?

Some hypothetical dwarf secrets might require jumping through an apprenticeship hoop to share, but we don't even know any of those right now, so that's a bit cart before the horse.
I would not trust Pan or Johann with Liber Mortis, not because i don't trust them, but because i am not certain what they would do (maybe in few years, probably not).
Apprentice is someone you train, teach how to think, learn to know over years.

That said, people should vote to get an apprentice if they are interested in training an apprentice, getting one for utilitarian purposes is a disservice to Mathilde, the apprentice, questers and Boney.
But onthe other hand, claiming that apprentice is nothing but a timesink with no utility, is disingenuous argument at best.
 
Each of those is a different situation, but rather than take it one-by-one I'll just say that training someone is not a prerequisite for trusting them or a guarantee of trusting them. I don't think I'd teach any of that to an apprentice; maybe a former apprentice who has completed their journeying and come back as a magister. Or Mathilde could find a Magister she trusts and share with them right now.

But for instance, there's nothing stopping Mathilde from sharing the Liber Mortis knowledge with Johann or Panoramia right now if she wanted to. Does she trust them not to tell on her? Do we as players?

Some hypothetical dwarf secrets might require jumping through an apprenticeship hoop to share, but we don't even know any of those right now, so that's a bit cart before the horse.
Let's put it this way. I doubt that our old master has told anyone else about him killing the pregnant empress. But, because he was our old master he was willing to tell us even though it is a secret that could likely get him killed and we didn't really need to know. I expect that we will be able to trust former apprentices that much as well.
 
Let's put it this way. I doubt that our old master has told anyone else about him killing the pregnant empress. But, because he was our old master he was willing to tell us even though it is a secret that could likely get him killed and we didn't really need to know. I expect that we will be able to trust former apprentices that much as well.
I say we follow the example of Van Hal.
As long as we live no one else needs to know of the Liber Mortis, for we can make use of it should the need be dire.
On our death we bequeath it to someone we trust to do the same.
 
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