Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[Boney]

Second Secret works on all Dhar constructs, not just First Secret ones.

 

[SuperSonicSound]

Second Secret works on all Dhar constructs, not just First Secret ones.

Click to shrink...

:/

Okay your quest, so we can trivially disrupt chaos spells then?

 

[Boney]

No. Chaos spells are at least partially Divine magic.

 

[Omegahugger]

No. Chaos spells are at least partially Divine magic.

Click to shrink...

Now, if only we had a friendly Deity we could practice destroying Divine energy on...

 

[Ekzentric Lohner]

Any Mastery enchantment is difficult on its own. Adding a Windherder on top of that makes it... not quite impossible, but very difficult. And high-magic, high-protection AA is harder to enchant than low-magic, low-protection AA.

Click to shrink...

So I guess the question is what's more important - adding the Mastery, or adding the auto-clean function? If we prioritize the mastery, then gaining control over our vapor-attracting arcane mark becomes even more vital.

 

[Alliterate]

Here's a fairly major loose end I just remembered.

Faking her death/leaving the actual Vampire to be discovered and disappearing was a simple "this game is up".

Click to shrink...

'Heidi' was impersonating Countess Gabriella. This is how she described dealing with the Lamian and assuming her identity:

Put the body in a crate, put the head in a different crate, dressed myself in her clothes and her face and went from town to town until the gate guards said 'welcome back, Countess'.

Click to shrink...

Sounds like she kept these crates on hand in Nachthafen, given the below:

So I woke up my predecessor just before the doors got kicked in and off I went

Click to shrink...

She intended for the real vampire to be found by the people rolling up the network, ensuring no-one was looking for her.
However-

The Lahmian in Nachthafen is long gone,

Click to shrink...

Roswita told us no Lahmian was found in Nachthafen.
So... where did this formerly-Countess, crated vampire go?
Seems like she escaped, and is probably quite angry at her captor, impersonator and current Empress.
(Unless she is Empress now. Still think that's unlikely, but it could also explain things if Heidi was lying about the crate and vampire.)

 

[picklepikkl]

With out the first secret there is no second secret. The reason you can make Vlad Von Carsteins army explode in a chain cascade failure is because it's put together using the casting technique pioneered by Nagash, if they don't use the first secret then demonstrably the 2nd secret is useless to disrupting an enemies spells.

if the dhar spell is just a splat of Dhar forced into doing stuff by the pure will of the caster then there's no careful layered bonds of dhar chaining its self together to disrupt.

Click to shrink...

Necromancy is not the same thing as the First Secret. Necromancy is the use of Shyish to manipulate Dhar. It does not involve braiding it carefully, it involves grabbing Dhar hastily with Shyish as tongs and using as little as possible. The First Secret is something only a few people have ever learned, and is the reason why the Liber Mortis is a terrifying book in the wrong hands.

It's not actually obvious, you concede. It's actually entirely counter-intuitive and if it hadn't been broken down for you by the writings of a long-dead genius you'd never have believed it could work that way. Dhar is inherently unstable, of course. So you use as little as possible, as quickly as possible, right? So it has the least amount of power and the least amount of time to break free?

No. With the patience of a priest, you weave it atop itself again and again like the cords of a rope, with every strand of it straining with the desire to explode free but held in place by every other strand. And just like that you have all the power of Dhar and none of the drawbacks... at least, not unless your attention wavers while attempting it and you burn alive from your soul outwards.

Or, if you're so inclined, you twist it the other way, and Dhar disintegrates in such a way to cause more Dhar to disintegrate, and like a single spark striking gunpowder any Dhar construct nearby unleashes all its energy at once, a chain reaction of failing enchantment. No wonder the Grand Theogonist could tear Mannfred Von Carstein's army apart. It required only the faintest hint of power, delivered in just the right spot to start the dominoes falling.

Click to shrink...

Dhar is horrifically powerful, but unreliable and unstable. The First Secret of Dhar removes everything after the 'but'.

Click to shrink...

If it were the case that all necromancy was built off the braiding techniques, then the Liber Mortis would be a harmless book and you could just spread knowledge of the Second Secret. Instead, the issue with unveiling the Second Secret is:

The problem with the Second Secret of Dhar: it builds on the First Secret of Dhar. And the First Secret of Dhar entirely justifies how goddamn terrified everyone is of this book.

Click to shrink...

If someone understands enough about Dhar to use the Second Secret, they're past the point where the First is immediately obvious.

Click to shrink...

This is how bad that would get:

You know, I realize it would be suicide to do it, but what would happen if Matilda said 'Fuck It All' and spread the First and Second Secrets Of Dhar as far and as fast she could knowing that every Empirical institutional that exists would want her dead, or tortured/questioned viciously and then dead?

Click to shrink...

Every single person capable of the simplest cantrip suddenly becomes capable of necromancy to a scale that can fight the Skaven to a standstill in a war of attrition.

Probably extinction, with the ruins that were once the Empire permanently uninhabitable by what is basically Chernobyl-level contamination except actively malicious.

Click to shrink...

So yeah. Different things.

 

[Omegahugger]

(Unless she is Empress now. Still think that's unlikely, but it could also explain things if Heidi was lying about the crate and vampire.)

Click to shrink...

If Heidi turns out to actually be a vampire, I'll be doubly miffed she wasn't around to offer a Blood Kiss to save Abel.

Yes, I realise the thread would never have gone for it, I would've liked the offer anyways. -.-

 

[NSMS]

If Heidi turns out to actually be a vampire, I'll be doubly miffed she wasn't around to offer a Blood Kiss to save Abel.

Yes, I realise the thread would never have gone for it, I would've liked the offer anyways. -.-

Click to shrink...

Considering Heidi's favoured by Ranald and Shayalla, has given birth to a son, presumably spends a lot of time in the daylight, and is very likely regularly surrounded by powerful priests and divine casters, I think we can write her being a vampire off the list as a possibility.

Unless she's a vampire from an alternate dimension where they work differently, of course. Then all bets are off.

 

[SuperSonicSound]

I mean vampires in the lore have given birth can be immune to sunlight and dont suffer from priestly magic. Granted all of them at once would be unusual and they are cut off from the warp.

 

[Redshirt Army]

Considering Heidi's favoured by Ranald and Shayalla, has given birth to a son, presumably spends a lot of time in the daylight, and is very likely regularly surrounded by powerful priests and divine casters, I think we can write her being a vampire off the list as a possibility.

Unless she's a vampire from an alternate dimension where they work differently, of course. Then all bets are off.

Click to shrink...

She's a refugee from Twilight?

 

[storryeater]

Considering Heidi's favoured by Ranald and Shayalla, has given birth to a son, presumably spends a lot of time in the daylight, and is very likely regularly surrounded by powerful priests and divine casters, I think we can write her being a vampire off the list as a possibility.

Unless she's a vampire from an alternate dimension where they work differently, of course. Then all bets are off.

Click to shrink...

Grey college paranoia mode: on

We never got explicit confirmation she is a favoured of Shallya. There is nothing in Ranald's scriptures that is explicitly anti vampire, most vampires act in ways Ranald hates, sure (like noblemen that do not care about the common man) but vampires can have exceptions among themselves.

Powerful Lahmians can negate the sun's effect, I think. They couldn't be able to intrigue well otherwise.

Lahmians, as an intrigue faction, should also be able to fool divine casters, even powerful ones.

Grey college paranoia mode: off

You are probably right tho.

 

[NSMS]

She's a refugee from Twilight?

Click to shrink...

I said vampire. Not human disco ball.

 

[Alliterate]

If Heidi turns out to actually be a vampire, I'll be doubly miffed she wasn't around to offer a Blood Kiss to save Abel.

Yes, I realise the thread would never have gone for it, I would've liked the offer anyways. -.-

Click to shrink...

You wouldn't have liked the blatant flirtatious seduction of Abel doubtlessly included in her being present to make the offer, though.

 

[Derpmind]

We actually know what his Learning stat was at the earlier parts of the quest.

It was 18.

So unless his intrigue is nutty we might have well surpassed him at this rate.

Click to shrink...

For all we know, he's been grinding away at his Intrigue stat and traits while Mathilde's been busy swording stuff.

It's why we could threaten a war with Marienburg so easily. Whatever the rest of the world throws at us, we'd be able to hold them off long enough.

Click to shrink...

I really don't want to invade Marienburg with an army of zombies, and I don't think the Empire would appreciate the help either.

 

[Omegahugger]

You wouldn't have liked the blatant flirtatious seduction of Abel doubtlessly included in her being present to make the offer, though.

Click to shrink...

That's part and parcel of vampires. I would be surprised if there wasn't any kind of hemoerotic tension going on.

Plus, if it got too bad, we could just shoot her with cannonballs. Worked too late on the last vampire who got in between us and Abel.

I really don't want to invade Marienburg with an army of zombies, and I don't think the Empire would appreciate the help either.

Click to shrink...

I was thinking of using it against the Empire-threatening army that would show up while they were busy/weakened from Marienburg though.

 

[chocolote12]

Considering Heidi's favoured by Ranald and Shayalla, has given birth to a son, presumably spends a lot of time in the daylight, and is very likely regularly surrounded by powerful priests and divine casters, I think we can write her being a vampire off the list as a possibility.

Unless she's a vampire from an alternate dimension where they work differently, of course. Then all bets are off.

Click to shrink...

Okay, that sounds like a good way to tell whether or not she's a vampire, except, very technically, none of those are actually refutations, just good indicators. I mean this in a humorous manner, but it's also true.

Vampires can be favored by gods, or possessed by daemons, if you try hard enough; their soul is closed off from the warp, but that's not physical immunity, any more than somebody just outside the pool is safe from having pool noodles thrown at them. It's harder to develop a relationship like that if you don't have personal interactions, but if you were favored before you were turned I don't see why you couldn't keep it going.

By my understanding vampires don't actually physically degenerate unless forced to feed on Dhar, not all of the curses laid on them by Nagash are activated by sunlight or holy symbols (she might instead be vulnerable to the tears of innocents and the touch of Laihtero, for example), and priests are not actually promoted for their closeness to their deity, otherwise the current Grand Theogonist would be a janitor.

Like, it would absolutely be contrived, but it's possible according to the rules of the setting.

 

[Alliterate]

For all we know, he's been grinding away at his Intrigue stat and traits while Mathilde's been busy swording stuff.

Click to shrink...

He thinks if he can get it high enough, he'll be able to actually disentangle himself from all his previous schemes and plots and actually retire for real, without getting pulled back in every other year.

Okay, that sounds like a good way to tell whether or not she's a vampire, except, very technically, none of those are actually refutations, just good indicators. I mean this in a humorous manner, but it's also true.

Vampires can be favored by gods, or possessed by daemons, if you try hard enough; their soul is closed off from the warp, but that's not physical immunity, any more than somebody just outside the pool is safe from having pool noodles thrown at them. It's harder to develop a relationship like that if you don't have personal interactions, but if you were favored before you were turned I don't see why you couldn't keep it going.

By my understanding vampires don't actually physically degenerate unless forced to feed on Dhar, not all of the curses laid on them by Nagash are activated by sunlight or holy symbols (she might instead be vulnerable to the tears of innocents and the touch of Laihtero, for example), and priests are not actually promoted for their closeness to their deity, otherwise the current Grand Theogonist would be a janitor.

Like, it would absolutely be contrived, but it's possible according to the rules of the setting.

Click to shrink...

Heh. And if she was already a high priestess of Ranald when she was turned, well, all these improbable circumstances might just happen to line up in her favour.

Plus, if it got too bad, we could just shoot her with cannonballs. Worked too late on the last vampire who got in between us and Abel.

Click to shrink...

Staked through the heart by one of Narfi's Cannonbolts?

 

[Mopman43]

I mean vampires in the lore have given birth

Click to shrink...

If you're talking about the Liber Necris here, there's a passage that suggests that Neferata is capable of giving birth, but not any of her 'children'. I can pull up the last time I quoted it if you like.

If you're talking about the "mortal Von Carsteins" from Night's Dark Masters, my personal read on that is that they were adopted into the Von Carstein name, not born by blood.

 

[SpaceSloth]

Vampires were cursed by Nagash so they all have some weaknesses. Sunlight, silver, no reflection in mirrors or garlic are common ones but not all of them have these, the only thing they all share is that they all need to drink blood.

 

[Candesce]

priests are not actually promoted for their closeness to their deity, otherwise the current Grand Theogonist would be a janitor.

Click to shrink...

If Heidi isn't close enough to chat directly with Ranald, though, she's got at least one accomplice who is; she's demonstrated that she possesses information that'd be very hard to get any other way.

Of course, since she is favoured of Ranald, that's not necessarily hard to achieve.

 

[chocolote12]

If Heidi isn't close enough to chat directly with Ranald, though, she's got at least one accomplice who is; she's demonstrated that she possesses information that'd be very hard to get any other way.

Of course, since she is favoured of Ranald, that's not necessarily hard to achieve.

Click to shrink...

Eh, I meant in a political sense. Ranald is very active about getting his friends together, when you think about it, because that's probably the only way disguise-focused stealth builds are going to recognize each other.

In government institutions, though, there's room for promotions for reasons other than a candidate's theological merits.

 

[TotallyNotEvil]

@BoneyM Next time we are in Altdorf just before Wizard Club, can we bring some of that sparkly bubble-wine and orage-pinkish fleshy bugs?

You know, casually show off how we are totally into the newest gourmet fashions in Altdorf, and definitely know what these are

 

[Lightwhispers]

"And one set of 'natural causes'. How'd you manage that?"

He smiles. "Let's just say there was an Amethyst looking to shore up their position."

Click to shrink...

I presume that would be Auntie Magister Mehitabel?

It would be entirely self-indulgent to go on a grand tour of the Rooms of Calamity you had commissioned, but you feel you've earned a bit of self-indulgence, especially after you went to check up on the one you'd called the Maze in the Grey College and found it had disappeared between one day and the next, absorbed into the Battle Wizard cloister. Your first stop is the Ambers and their Enclosure, as it was the one you were least sure of. The Tower is just as abandoned as it usually is, and after you climb up into the Room itself it's accumulating its own layer of dust to match downstairs, but you do find a set of clawmarks in one wall that you doubt were left there by the Dwarves that installed it. You take that as a good sign and move on.

Click to shrink...

Greys: *yoink*
Ambers: "Is is tasty?"
Amethyst: "Unlimited Power... oops..."
Bright: "Oh, good, it's fireproof."
Golds: "More lab space, cool!"
Jades: *expands garden*
Lights: *expands Choir*
Celestials: "Hey, we can trap a Grey in a party!"

You open your mouth to ask again but she's already gone, slipping away into the currents of the crowd and taking the remains of your good mood with her. You scowl and finish your drink. Celestials.

Click to shrink...

Fun seeing the reaction when Mathilde is the victim of wizardly smuggery.

The Templars are sitting on massive amounts of confiscated peat, and the Dwarves want that peat - fuel for some expedition or something. So I give the Templars crossbows and mark-one Repeaters for that peat, and the Dwarves give me gold, but more important than the gold is if someone interferes with us, they've just interfered with the flow of materiel to the Templars and to Karak Kadrin. And we're already supplying the Army of Stirland and shipping niter to Zhufbar and have our partnership with Barak Varr. If we get caught in the crossfire, it guarantees that war the Marienburgers are so worried about.

Click to shrink...

This is again using the tactic that the Grand Chamberlain mentioned - tie your trade to a group that explicitly fights Hostis Sapiens Generis, and attacks on you suddenly are a lot riskier.

 

[Glau]

Ok, so: 'Really quite badly.'

What's the worst-case scenario? Persoanlly cheese off one of the four and have a snowballing chaos force chase us all the way back to slayer keep, smashing into the empire afterwards?

All of us wiped out?

Chaos dwarves provoked into an invasion that sends us desperately reaching out to clan moulder to put pressure on the dark lands and relieve the empire?

How bad could this get?

If it does any of those things then it is a failure. Ulgu can identify things using our knowledge; for instance, friends or foes, at a fraction of the time it'd take us to peg them normally. If we are connected to the spell, it could just as easily ascertain a yes or no on something like 'is this a position you'd want to be in', because that's about as complicated as 'which of these two nearly identical (animals) do you not like' and we know it can do that.

Click to shrink...

I worry that anything that requires Mathilde's mind in the loop loses my primary incentive for a ward save, which is that is be reactive enough to save us from a sniper bullet or cannonball. Basically if Mathilde needs to know the threat exists for the ward save to activate, I'm much less interested.

Saying because destination selection through Mathilde's head is presumably not an always-on sort of task.

Piety:
Sigmar (2/3)

Click to shrink...

Nope. If I could lose a dot here I would.

Oh wow, you've said the word border and now I'm wondering whether Ulgu can move a national border.

Click to shrink...

I bet an ulgu spell could theoretically merge two countries by blurring a border, but I don't think a 'country' is something you can usefully pour ulgu into. Maybe try with two ant nests, flood the conflict zone, see what happens?