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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[] Plan Magic and Mousewords
-[] MAX: Receive dictation: Queekish-Khazalid Dictionary 1/2.
-[] JOHANN: Attempt to take advantage of his temporarily blindness to improve his Windsight.
-[ ] DUCK: Spend time with Hubert in an attempt to find him a purpose. (NEW)
-[] EIC: Bring in a Perpetual Apprentice to start grooming as a handler for intelligence matters of the EIC. (1 favour/turn)
-[] Dictate papers: Queekish-Khazalid Dictionary 2/2.
-[ ] Investigate the possibility of using one Wind to directly manipulate another.
-[] Study an artefact: Ranald's Coin.
-[] Call in favours to get a specific Runesmith to examine the interaction between Runes and Vitae with you.
-[] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[] SERENITY: Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary 1/2.
-[] The Gambler: Study Ranald's Coin.
 
picklepikkl said:
Just so you know, next turn is the last turn that it's at 0. It's Fading this turn, next turn is Mostly Faded. So there is not urgency for doing it this turn.
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Hmm, thoughts on replacing it with training arcane mark?
Its one of those things which we've meant to do for a long time, but which we've never had the slack to do.

On the other hand I'd also like to clear anything with a timer on it before the timer goes red.
 
BoneyM said:
"As most of you would be aware," King Belegar says as the seven of you climb the spiralling central staircase of Karag Lhune, "the Okral have not integrated well, despite our best efforts at extending hospitality." The undercurrent of hostility in his voice is well-concealed, but definitely there if you're looking for it.

"I've had them build barrackses near each of their main job sites just to cut down on clashes with locals," Prince Kazrik says gloomily. "They expected to take over their respective guilds here for the duration of their stay, and those guilds don't appreciate it."

"Some of their lineages rival those of the eldest Clans of Karaz-a-Karak, they'll not be disrespected by outsiders," King Belegar says firmly. "Tell me of the Masons first."

"Clan Stoneback, returned originals, and Clan Ikrokri, formerly of Karak Izor," Dreng says. "The Stonebacks worked throughout the Grey and Black Mountains, and have strong ties to the Younger Holds. So it's an old irritation that the Okral are making worse. I've moved the Durokral off the defences and onto the other tasks. It is our blood that will be spilled on those defences, so it should be our picks and hammers that shape it."

"What are the Durokral doing now, then?"

"Restoring Karags Rhyn and Mhonar.

King Belegar doesn't look happy, but after a moment of relative silence broken by the footsteps as you climb upwards, he lets it pass. "And the mapping?"

"We're focusing on the upper levels for now, how the original passages have changed and been added to. If need be the deeper sections could be cut off, but we need to know the upper levels to defend them. We should have begun pushing deeper before mid-year."

"Very well. Prince Gotri, the Endrinokral?"

"They've declared that they can't work on Gyrocopters without breaching Guild Secrets of the Engineers Guild of Karaz-a-Karak," he says bitterly, "which is a ridiculous insult, considering that they wouldn't be able to build one in the first place without the knowledge of the Engineers Guild of Zhufbar. So I've put them to work on components and," he waves a hand upwards, "this elevator, which even in their arrogance they can't declare Guild Secrets."
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This is quickly becoming worryingly problematic, more so than it already was
Belegar and Thorgrim are on rather shaky ground to begin with, but at least both had agreed to bury the hatchet publicly, with no formal disagreement ever existing on record at the very least the situation was relatively stable or at least it wouldn't readily worsen
But now KaK and K8P are butting heads in other areas too, a formalized split may be a ways off still but one might functionally exist unofficially already, or might as well
 
[ ] Plan Snek, Spider, and Squeak Modified
-[ ] MAX: Receive dictation: Queekish-Khazalid Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
-[ ] JOHANN: Attempt to take advantage of his temporarily blindness to improve his Windsight.
-[ ] DUCK: Work with Panoramia for her to finally get around to investigating the greenskin mushrooms she found.
-[ ] EIC: Start hiring handlers who can then start hiring informers and begin to collect non-public information.
-[ ] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there.
--[ ] Practical Diplomacy
-[ ] Dictate papers: Queekish-Khazalid Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
-[ ] Investigate how the We communicates with... itself?
-[ ] Attempt to interest a prominent and knowledgeable Runesmiths in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will start at the top and work your way down)
--[ ] Gambler
-[ ] PENTHOUSE: Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -125gc for 5 rooms.
-[ ] SERENITY: Write a paper: Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish (1/2)
-[ ] COIN: The Gambler

I mostly liked picle original plan since it goes into a lot of things I am interested but there are three places where I believe it could be better.

First EIC, honestly I don't like the idea of hiring a perpetual, I fell it only has so much suport because it exists on the intersection of the thread paranoia about the EIC demanding it is perfectly locked down and the misconception the college is imcomparably more capable than Mathilde, wich leads people to believe this perputual is going to be some kind of ideal and flawless agent with no desires beyond faithfull service, when it is going to be a person and this whole quest is called divided loyalties.
So I don't see much benefit delaying actualizing our information network to get a second we don't need and for such high price on top.

Second is AV and rune interactions, instead of dancing around the insue with just going the anti-magic I believe we are better served going straigh for a runesmith, being cheaper and alowing for greater results, specialy as we can smoth the process with the coin.

Finaly penthouse, no much to say beyond how we don't have any especific tower need right now and a single dig should be more than enough to get us a lot of things, specialy the explosives lab that we need for more energetic experiments.
 
picklepikkl said:
Not sure how you intend to replace a Serenity paper action with training an arcane mark :p
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Very carefully :p
TimEd said:
Seems like a good choice for action economy in giving all our ducklings a leg up in the Not Dying department.

Especially now when all things are still in a transition period.
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Unfortunately Johann can't see or he'd be perfect to join this scrum.
Zaratustra said:
First EIC, honestly I don't like the idea of hiring a perpetual, I fell it only has so much suport because it exists on the intersection of the thread paranoia about the EIC demanding it is perfectly locked down and the misconception the college is imcomparably more capable than Mathilde, wich leads people to believe this perputual is going to be some kind of ideal and flawless agent with no desires beyond faithfull service, when it is going to be a person and this whole quest is called divided loyalties.
So I don't see much benefit delaying actualizing our information network to get a second we don't need and for such high price on top.
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No, the Perpetual has more TIME to spend on it than Mathilde. The Perpetual is also guaranteed to have basic spycraft education and better vetting than we could do with a few weeks of work. That means it gets more useful work done without having to spend time on it.
me.me.here said:
Adela wanted to work with us on the Skyre lighting mechanism, right? Would working with her to study it be a valid Duckling option?
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My thoughts is that once Johann has his eyes back that'd more feasible.
 
Zaratustra said:
First EIC, honestly I don't like the idea of hiring a perpetual, I fell it only has so much suport because it exists on the intersection of the thread paranoia about the EIC demanding it is perfectly locked down and the misconception the college is imcomparably more capable than Mathilde, wich leads people to believe this perputual is going to be some kind of ideal and flawless agent with no desires beyond faithfull service, when it is going to be a person and this whole quest is called divided loyalties.
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TBH I'm with this guy- too much of the discussion around that perpetual grabbing action seemed either meta, questionably wise or just a case of trying to micro something for the sake of micro-ing it, I dunno.
 
BoneyM said:
[ ] Despite him considering it treasonous, push Qrech to share the Moulder dialect of Queekish.
[ ] Despite him considering it blasphemous, push Qrech to share High Queekish.
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Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Yyyyyep. Now we butt heads with a problem I've been thinking about. The fact that I kinda like Qrech and he's been super cooperative and given us a lot and I don't want a future scenario where we rip away rewards and amp up the punishments until he acquiesces. I could never figure out what I actually wanted for Qrech's endgame, my super paranoid brain demanded that we execute him as soon as we got Queekish before he prays and alerts the Horned Rat, and my sympathetic brain wants to just let him spend the rest of his life in basic comfort.

Alternatively, getting Low Queekish allows other people to capture other Skaven and interrogate them for the other languages. Qrech was such a irreplaceable opportunity because he spoke Khalazid, but as long as we have Low Queekish we can do this to any captive.

So I think I am against pushing.
 
Zaealix said:
TBH I'm with this guy- too much of the discussion around that perpetual grabbing action seemed either meta, questionably wise or just a case of trying to micro something for the sake of micro-ing it, I dunno.
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The point of a Prepetual though is to narratively free Mathilde up from having to micro aspects of her network in the long run by having a second pair of eyes and a mind to work with to coordinate the network, and for an actual face to the network to work with.

Also one could justify this IC on Mathilde's own Grey Magister paranoia, and Mathilde being used to operating a network with a deputy. Plausibly, I think there is no way Mathilde can track every handler in her network with her time, which the PA can as a full time job. Furthermore, it's strange to hire the handlers first and a PA next placed over the handlers later, parachuted in from above, and I don't see us hiring a PA never. Indeed, not hiring a PA may well be shoddy foundations for her network from Mathilde's perspective.


Further, I can guarantee you the moment the thread flubs an EIC roll that cost us more actions to undo, the assistant will be a panic buy, based on how thread politics works.

Finally, a faceless network is really boring to read about to be honest.
 
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Zaealix said:
TBH I'm with this guy- too much of the discussion around that perpetual grabbing action seemed either meta, questionably wise or just a case of trying to micro something for the sake of micro-ing it, I dunno.
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Personally I see hiring a perpetual as a natural step in the life-cycle of a Magister edging up to Lord Magister status. As their interests and favor income expand, but time and attention available remain limited. They'll naturally accrue some college followers to help them manage things.

ChronOblivion said:
Alternatively, getting Low Queekish allows other people to capture other Skaven and interrogate them for the other languages. Qrech was such a irreplaceable opportunity because he spoke Khalazid, but as long as we have Low Queekish we can do this to any captive.
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Yeah, in my view at this point It's on whoever wants to learn whatever variant of queekish they're interested in to capture a speaker and pry it out of them. We've given a comprehensive scaffolding for them to do so.
 
ChronOblivion said:
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Yyyyyep. Now we butt heads with a problem I've been thinking about. The fact that I kinda like Qrech and he's been super cooperative and given us a lot and I don't want a future scenario where we rip away rewards and amp up the punishments until he acquiesces. I could never figure out what I actually wanted for Qrech's endgame, my super paranoid brain demanded that we execute him as soon as we got Queekish before he prays and alerts the Horned Rat, and my sympathetic brain wants to just let him spend the rest of his life in basic comfort.

Alternatively, getting Low Queekish allows other people to capture other Skaven and interrogate them for the other languages. Qrech was such a irreplaceable opportunity because he spoke Khalazid, but as long as we have Low Queekish we can do this to any captive.

So I think I am against pushing.
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Personal opinion on the matter is we publish, we let it be for a few years and see if his loyalties are still as solid.

Or I dunno, we get our hands on some fresh data. Skryre prisoner maybe, then we can play Prisoners' Dilemma.
 
[X] Plan Snek, Spider, and Squeak
-[X] MAX: Receive dictation: Queekish-Khazalid Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
-[X] JOHANN: Attempt to take advantage of his temporarily blindness to improve his Windsight.
-[X] DUCK: Work with Panoramia for her to finally get around to investigating the greenskin mushrooms she found.
-[X] EIC: Bring in a Perpetual Apprentice to start grooming as a handler for intelligence matters of the EIC. (1 favour/turn)
--[X] Gambler
-[X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there.
--[X] Practical Diplomacy
-[X] Dictate papers: Queekish-Khazalid Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
-[X] Investigate how the We communicates with... itself?
-[X] Investigate how the Vitae reacts to Dwarven magic-dampening Runes. (2 Dwarf favours)
-[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish (1/2)
-[X] COIN: The Gambler

This plan finishes 1.5 out of 2 dictionaries, progresses Aethyric Vitae research, develops our personal skills, and finishes the last bit of We research: 1 Personal action on the job, 2 on research, 1 on self-improvement.

Practical Diplomacy is going to be very useful if our next task is investigating the Waystones, and still moderately useful if it isn't. We're at 2/3 on both the Empire and the Colleges of Magic diplo skills, and we know there are times when we didn't get information because Mathilde's diplo wasn't high enough to read the room. This helps plug a key hole for us.

EIC action: I decided that the factory is probably a lost cause, especially since the EIC can't actually duplicate it in other locations. So instead, we're getting into the spy network aspect of the EIC. Coin is on that, because we desperately need good results on both reliability and competence.

The choice of Vitae action is so that we have more to go on regarding its rune interactions before we involve Kragg or Thorek. Whether or not we propose it as our next task, we should have more info. This is an easy, quick thing we can check on our own. If it goes well, next turn we involve a Runelord, either ourself or by making it our project (depending on what voters decide; I'm neutral).

The We study is because people were very excited about them after the social turn and, frankly, I expect that to matter to a lot of our less-active voters. It's the last bit of We research before we can close the book on that, and it will be very nice to finally check something off our backlog.

The Penthouse action is because I really want the Room of Oh Dear before we start doing crazy shit that might result in magical explosions (like AV Powerstone research) or Dhar (like tongs). We can also see what other options we have.

EDIT: Post answering a bunch of objections here.
 
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picklepikkl said:
[X] Plan Snek, Spider, and Squeak
-[X] MAX: Receive dictation: Queekish-Khazalid Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
-[X] JOHANN: Attempt to take advantage of his temporarily blindness to improve his Windsight.
-[X] DUCK: Work with Panoramia for her to finally get around to investigating the greenskin mushrooms she found.
-[X] EIC: Bring in a Perpetual Apprentice to start grooming as a handler for intelligence matters of the EIC. (1 favour/turn)
--[X] Gambler
-[X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there.
--[X] Practical Diplomacy
-[X] Dictate papers: Queekish-Khazalid Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
-[X] Investigate how the We communicates with... itself?
-[X] Investigate how the Vitae reacts to Dwarven magic-dampening Runes. (2 Dwarf favours)
-[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish (1/2)
-[X] COIN: The Gambler

This plan finishes 1.5 out of 2 dictionaries, progresses Aethyric Vitae research, develops our personal skills, and finishes the last bit of We research: 1 Personal action on the job, 2 on research, 1 on self-improvement.

Practical Diplomacy is going to be very useful if our next task is investigating the Waystones, and still moderately useful if it isn't. We're at 2/3 on both the Empire and the Colleges of Magic diplo skills, and we know there are times when we didn't get information because Mathilde's diplo wasn't high enough to read the room. This helps plug a key hole for us.

EIC action: I decided that the factory is probably a lost cause, especially since the EIC can't actually duplicate it in other locations. So instead, we're getting into the spy network aspect of the EIC. Coin is on that, because we desperately need good results on both reliability and competence.

The choice of Vitae action is so that we have more to go on regarding its rune interactions before we involve Kragg or Thorek. Whether or not we propose it as our next task, we should have more info. This is an easy, quick thing we can check on our own. If it goes well, next turn we involve a Runelord, either ourself or by making it our project (depending on what voters decide; I'm neutral).

The We study is because people were very excited about them after the social turn and, frankly, I expect that to matter to a lot of our less-active voters. It's the last bit of We research before we can close the book on that, and it will be very nice to finally check something off our backlog.
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Um, pretty sure the moratorium's not over for another two hours.
 
Oh, damn, I thought it was a 2-hour moratorium. Misread.

Well, I'm going to bed. Someone post that for me when the moratorium's up, please?
 
[ ] PLAN REAPER
-[ ] MAX: Receive dictation: specify which. Must be taken with a 'dictate' action. (SEE DICTATE ACTION)
-[ ] JOHANN: Attempt to take advantage of his temporarily blindness to improve his Windsight. (NEW)
-[ ] DUCK: Panoramia's about ready to test for Magister, but she's putting it off because she doesn't have a lot of free time to prepare. Work with her to help make the most of every spare minute.
-[ ] Sell some of the Grand Urbaz Bank coins to collectors and museums on King Belegar's behalf.
-[ ] PENTHOUSE: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent forcible entry. (free)
-[ ] Write a paper: select which. (FREE/TOWER)(2 TURN ACTION)
--[ ] Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
-[ ] Dictate papers: select which two, must be taken with Max's 'receive dictation'.
--[ ] Queekish-Khazalid Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish (FULL DICTATE ACTION)
-[ ] Investigate how the Vitae reacts to a power stone.
-[ ] Record all the entries of the Grand Urbaz vaults and select a good-quality example of each minting to save from the smelters.
-[ ] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Try to create them.
-[ ] COIN: The Gambler (dictate papers)


Book Writing for Max and us.
Johann- He's not the type to waste time waiting when he can do something constructive.
Panoramia, I just like her more than the others except Johann, and he has other things going on right now. We will help him when we can.
The coins actions. they are limited time actions. when they go to the smelter there won't be another chance for these.
forting up seems like a good idea to me. even better if next turn we add firing platforms.
More Vitae research. Keep it moving ahead. it will eventually pay off... I hope or am i falling for sunk cost fallacy here?
Sword training. We spent all those favors for this really magical sword. it's about time we learned how to use it properly.
 
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I'm going to fall asleep soon, so if someone could post this when the moratorium is up, I would definitely appreciate that!
[ ] Plan Research
-[ ] JOHANN: Attempt to take advantage of his temporarily blindness to improve his Windsight. (NEW)
-[ ] MAX: Receive dictation: Queekish-Khazalid Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
-[ ] DUCK: Work with Panoramia for her to finally get around to investigating the greenskin mushrooms she found.
-[] EIC: Bring in a Perpetual Apprentice to start grooming as a handler for intelligence matters of the EIC. (1 favour/turn)
-[ ] P1: Dictate papers: Queekish-Khazalid Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
-[ ] P2: Investigate how the Vitae reacts to a power stone.
-[ ] P3: Study an artefact: Ranald's Coin
-[ ] P4: Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there: Practical Diplomacy
--[ ] Gambler
-[ ] SERENITY PAPER: Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish (1/2)
-[ ] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[ ] COIN: The Gambler
 
My thoughts on this turn's plan:

[ ] MAX: Receive dictation: Queekish-Khazalid Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
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Pretty standard stuff here - I don't expect there to be much argument about this particular action. Khazalid gets priority because we ultimately are doing this on Belegar's dime, and we can thus declare the K8P project done and complete the College version on our own time.

[ ] JOHANN: Allow him to take it easy until his eyes recover enough for a second attempt at Gilding.
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I'm really, really not a fan of pushing Johann to study after he literally boiled his freaking eyes, especially when it's one of the facets of magic that he's shown little talent or inclination towards. Let the dude have a vacation, holy shit, I know I'd want some time off if I boiled my eyes.

[ ] DUCK: Work with Panoramia for her to finally get around to investigating the greenskin mushrooms she found.
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It's one of the many curiousities we haven't yet gotten around to poking at, and it's in our interests to start hacking away at that backlog.

[ ] EIC: Bring in a Perpetual Apprentice to start grooming as a handler for intelligence matters of the EIC. (1 favour/turn)
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I'm primarily interested in the EIC as a source of information, and having someone who can dedicate their time to it full-time should improve the efficacy of actions in that direction. The info gathered should be worth more than 1 Favor per turn in the long run anyway, so it's better to think of this as an investment than a cost.

As an added bonus, personifying the spy network by having a new character we can interact with run it should make for more interesting reading, much like Julia did for Stirland's spy ring.

[ ] Dictate papers: Queekish-Khazalid Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
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Obviously necessary to pair with the Max action.

[ ] Use King Belegar's pull to bring in some linguistics experts from the Empire's universities, though after proper vetting and swearing them to silence.
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Grab some expert guidance to help the lexicons be all they can be - let's be clear, cracking Queekish is the sort of thing that could make our career as a Lord Magister. It's absolutely in our interests to get it done as well as possible.

[ ] Attempt to interest a young Runesmith with ambition and flexibility in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will give a selection of candidates)
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I expect enlisting an actual Runesmith to give us much more thorough backing in the interaction between AV and Runes then we could figure out through self-study - and I think starting out with the basics is absolutely the right call before kicking it up the chain to one of the real grandmasters of the art.

[ ] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there.
- [ ] Practical Diplomacy
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I'd like to aim for at least one self-improvement action per turn, and right now our relatively low Diplomacy is a sticking point for many of our future plans. Grey Wizards are expected to be excellent diplomats, so let's fill out our skillset to match the position we're aiming for.

[ ] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
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Towers are cool, towers are great, and I'm curious to see what new options will be available now that we've filled out a lot of the basics. If I recall correctly the Blue Tower collects a fair amount of lightning, so perhaps we could link that into an aerial defence of some kind?

[ ] SERENITY: Write a paper: Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish (1/2)
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No arguments from me here - we need to get working on this.

And finally, the coin. I think that the vetting the Grey College does is actually pretty thorough, and think the improvements from putting the gambler on the EIC action are probably marginal. I'd much prefer to put the Coin on our dictation action, to make sure that we actually get as good a result as possible for our assigned task. Plus, it's thematically fitting for Ranald to help us with what's likely the theft of the century.

Putting that all together:

[ ] Plan Redshirt v1
-[ ] MAX: Receive dictation: Queekish-Khazalid Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
-[ ] JOHANN: Allow him to take it easy until his eyes recover enough for a second attempt at Gilding.
-[ ] DUCK: Work with Panoramia for her to finally get around to investigating the greenskin mushrooms she found.
-[ ] EIC: Bring in a Perpetual Apprentice to start grooming as a handler for intelligence matters of the EIC. (1 favour/turn)
-[ ] Dictate papers: Queekish-Khazalid Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
--[ ] COIN: The Gambler
-[ ] Use King Belegar's pull to bring in some linguistics experts from the Empire's universities, though after proper vetting and swearing them to silence.
-[ ] Attempt to interest a young Runesmith with ambition and flexibility in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will give a selection of candidates)
-[ ] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there.
--[ ] Practical Diplomacy
-[ ] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[ ] SERENITY: Write a paper: Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish (1/2)
 
Hrrm...Yanno something I was mulling over?
The Protector.
Here's what bugs me.
The Deciever is good for lying.
The Night Prowler, for sneaking about.
The Gambler is the DD equivilant for this Quest.
So what's the Protector good for?
Seems to me we might want to try mixing it with the next time Matilde goes sneaking about enemy camps, assuming we don't accidentally another war with our shenanigans, it might be great for basically insta-summoning the calvary to our location right after we've sown the chaos we need to.
Another thought might be good for favors, though as I recall we are actually kind of not sure what to spend our favors on, which is how Thorek got straight-up owned in the face, the likes of which he hopes he will not have to experience again.
 
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