- Location
- Australia
High Elves don't jive with the sensory unpleasantness of guns, but I'm focusing on the technological, physiological, and economic reasons (and there's still Dark Elves to consider even factoring in the sensory unpleasantness).
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
I don't think they can get elf-quality craftsmanship out of a largely non-Elven slave population. Even ignoring the limited tools with which you can threaten a skilled craftsperson, magic doesn't seem to be able to substitute for that skill in the first place.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think a starting point on investigating the nature of Dhar and its relationship with the winds might be to determine if Dhar from various sources are distinguishable from one another, especially the Dark Magics which are not pure Dhar. For example, Necromancy uses Dhar, but specifically, it uses the Dhar to subvert, corrupt, and manipulate Shyish. Meanwhile, the beastmen's Lore of Wilds is Dhar magic, but it seems to be using Dhar to corrupt and manipulate Ghur, and the Clan Eshin Lore of Stealth does something similar with Ulgu. Thus, if it possible to distinguish between different 'flavors' of ambient Dhar via Magesight, that could be a major benefit to the Grey College, because being able to tell which flavor of Dhar-wielding assholes you are up against means you can come prepared.
Another reason and I acknowledge that it is leaning into the Druchii are all evil and have no redeeming qualities trope, is that they are quick and require no skill. Cruelty is a blade that must be honed consistently, a gun is made for killing quickly and requires minimal training to operate. Once you get down to repetitive motions, point and squeeze/touch off that is it. For a functionally immortal warrior there's nothing there to be good at. A repeater crossbow though, in truly bad situations you can dispense with all the fripperies and kill. In other situations, a dozen crippling, wounding shots to leave a creature for you to toy with later, or if you are forced off the field someone who must be cared for after the battle is left crippled.
I recognize it's a bit tropy but it makes sense on a balance between the cruelty, craftsmanship, innovation reasoning.
- Location
- Australia
It's one of their evil faction cheat codes. Actual magic isn't a factor.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Not sure they have those in DL. And in actual Warhammer they don't have guns because GW wanted to make the factions unique and giving them different gear helps.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
I'm not certain they even have elf-quality gear, at least not in regular production. The stat sheet for Elven Corsairs in Old World Bestiary gives them two hand weapons, a set of leather armour, a helmet, a repeater crossbow and a sea dragon cloak, and all but the last is mechanically identical to anything you'd get for a regular human soldier. And this isn't just a case of system abstraction, because Elven Wights in the system get Best Quality gear by default, and the Elfbow is mechanically always treated as being Best Quality.
- Pronouns
- He
If it's not in the shape of an orb, is Mathilde allowed to ponder it? Legally speaking?
Does Mathilde's shadow ever come up again? When I read the description of it curling around people it likes, even if its off putting, I was hoping that would come up more as fun flavor that also emphasized how weird a grey wizard is, or as a way to show Mathilde's mood that she can't easily control, but so far it seems to come up in combat a few times and the persistent "get it under control" option that never gets picked.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Couple things about that:
A) Corsairs explicitly under-equip themselves in leather armour deliberately (probably because they're sailors and prefer stabbing to drowning).
B) Corsairs aren't military. They're pirates out for themselves, not soldiers equipped by the state.
C) The Elven Wights you're talking about are described as "some of Ulthuan's greatest heroes" and so aren't just run of the mill (in fact, only their Wight Blades are explicitly called as being Best Quality).
D) Elfbows are fantastic weapons, but are not always Best Craftsmanship (at least, my copy of Old World Armoury says nothing about it).
- Location
- Australia
Huh, I've always been indifferent to that action but suddenly, after years, I'm now against it. I like her shadow bring outside of her control.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
It did eventually get picked in turn 43
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
Their description in page 109 of the core rulebook has this to say, tacked on at the end:
"There are no differences of craftsmanship with the Elfbow; all are of Exceptional quality."
Yeah the roll was just ok with the bonus. After it seemed like it was the second curiosity "Drawn to the question not asked" and when you focus on ambiguities you can easily hold a second stupid question in your mind. I was drawn to the description of the convo with Sarvoi, where our shadow examined a jar of olives. In theory there would be a thousand more interesting things to look at even amongst the basics of an elven tavern. So the simple question was held, "How many olives are in the jar?"
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
That needed an editing pass then, because Exceptional quality doesn't exist. Which means mechanically, it's identical to Common Craftsmanship, not Good (which reduces the encumbrance by 10%) or Best (which does that and gives a +5% to BS/WS).
- Location
- Australia
That's unfortunate. Still, thanks for the info.
- Location
- Aotearoa
...well not in Umgi work. </ElderRaceSmugging>
Is the fact that elves don't use guns mostly a practical thing, pride or parts of both? QM did say elven magical bows were just better but lets say bolt action rifles made by foreign non chaotic aligned people were available for adoption, would they adopt it because they are practical? Or would they not as bows would still be superior for even their militia who get lot of time to train? Would it create lively debate about if enchanted bows or enchanted rifles were better? Would people go around calling each other insane for supporting dropping a weapon proven by millennia of use and the thought the adopt a new weapon wouldn't even come up?
I'm asking how much of the pride meme is real in a roundabout way basically, might be relevant if the elfcation goes through. Although ı guess there is not much reason for us to know in character if elves in NOTatlantis are too prideful for their own good, we only know of a small sample size.
I'm asking how much of the pride meme is real in a roundabout way basically, might be relevant if the elfcation goes through. Although ı guess there is not much reason for us to know in character if elves in NOTatlantis are too prideful for their own good, we only know of a small sample size.
In all fairness a bit of it is handwaved away with the chaos gods. Khorne's influence is felt over all of warfare and his influence demands no frippery except pure strength and skill. No ranged weapons may pierce his plate, no spells may grasp their flesh.
Then you add in what amounts to an consistent immortal pull towards the way of your ancestors while an entire portion of your kingdom have never had an enemy tread on them since the great incursion... Well it's a powerful pull for a traditional mastery.
The dwarves had the triple pressure of skaven, greenskins and chaos. Only recently have greenskins and skaven entered Ulthuan and it's noted that Grom is part of the reason the waystone project was received well by Yvresse.
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SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We took the "get it under control" option and worked out how to make it act normally while actively concentrating on the effort. But it does get mentioned at times, normally offhand mentions about it being unsettling to some people unused to magic.
Thing is, Mathilde is festooned with arcane marks, and her shadow is just one of these. It doesn't get mentioned all the time because it would be tedious, and because a lot of our interactions recently have been with people already used to magic (elves, ice witches, hag witches, mages, dwarves who know Mathilde, priests and knights who work with mages).
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
I was just thinking: You know what battlefield spell we should invent?
A variation Rite of Way that instead makes ghoulish, horrible terrain. It's even more in-line with the nature of Ulgu (uncertain terrain), and in the case of a battle, creating uneven terrain that randomly trips people up might actually be MORE dangerous than a spell that universally targets people in a single block. The damage to cohesion would be epic and disastrous.
Imagine:
You're marching to meet the enemy and Bob, the guy in front of you slips and falls flat on his face after slipping up on magically slippery terrain. Now you have to stop or walk over poor Bob and all the people behind you also need to stop.
You're trying to aim a bow and arrow and the enemy, but the ground is not steady soil and oh my gods it's so annoying to stand up straight.
You're charging at the enemy on your mighty warhorse and oh my gods it just slipped up fu-
- Location
- Australia
The grey wizard equivalent of creating the disease to sell the cure.
Now I can't get the name 'Spot of Bother' out of my head as a parallel to the original. Not quite as artful a pun, sadly!
(Or maybe something using the double meaning of 'Toll'?)
The Pothole of Shades