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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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DragonParadox said:
As for knightbringer, it's a pretty impressive spell don't get me wrong, but that's because there are few non-Chaotic ways to get summons. Any half-trained Chaos Magus could produce its equivalent a dozen times over.
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I disagree on that front, because Daemons are very hard to control and tend to just attack whatever is in the area. The Knightbringer's biggest benefit is that it is easier to control and will actively protect the user, as opposed to a daemon that will just rampage.

Plus the Knightbringer spell can be cast preemptively, set to activate if we are attacked, while a chaos sorcerer would need to actively summon a daemon in the heat of battle, which risks some nasty miscasts.
Execute/Dumbo said:
Oh my god I completely forgot about Knightbringer. We have so many layers of defence I'm forgetting about them.
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Yeah, Mathilde has a lot of contingencies and defenses. I personally really can't wait for the first time we deploy the Knightbringer in a fight, if only for the surprise factor of a sudden murder knight popping out of nowhere.
 
Sinsystems said:
I disagree on that front, because Daemons are very hard to control and tend to just attack whatever is in the area. The Knightbringer's biggest benefit is that it is easier to control and will actively protect the user, as opposed to a daemon that will just rampage.
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Minor demons, which the red rider is equivalent to are relatively easy to control on a moment to moment level even if all Daemonologists either get unlucky or find their reach has outstripped their grasp eventually.
 
Shard said:
edit: Looking back now, I think this also explains why The Library ended up so successful.
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I'm going to keep thinking that it was my push for U-K8P that dragged the thread into voting for the library as a slightly more moderate compromise option.

Omake are obviously the best way to make your arguments for votes.

If you think a thing is going to be cool, show the readers, don't tell them. It gets people excited and it is fun to read. It gets a thread mark, so it won't get lost in the flood and people will go back and read it. And if a thing that is cool in the abstract is hard to make cool in a story, it's better to learn that from trying to do it than from having other people tell you.

Prime 2.0 said:
It is a quest master's job to create a fun and inviting environment for play. It is the players' job to be aware and respectful of each others' needs and desired level of engagement - including how and why that can differ from their actual level of engagement.
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I have literally walked away from engaging a quest pretty recently because the discussion style was frustrating and exhausting and I couldn't post there without it becoming a thing I ended up seething over. You were on the other side of that.

So while I agree with this statement, there is some schedenfreude going on.

Sparsebeard said:
Sooo, if the skyship ends up winning, I really think we should report the elfcation at least until the ship is finished and delivered
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No. Please no. I'll write it myself if this happens.
 
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Sinsystems said:
I am pretty sure that makes it harder, since daemons are more likely to try to wiggle out of it or screw the caster over.
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The cost of soul-deep corruption is the cost here, but as long as you have the right knowledge the binding of minor daemons can be pretty solid. After all their greater kin are after more valuable prizes than a bit of cavorting.

Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Quick correction, but it wasn't the champion that nullified our enchantments, it was Khorne that did that, and I don't think theres a set of armour in the setting that can resist the direct attention of a chaos god.
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Maleketh's black plate might be up to it, after all he did go warp-walking with it and came back as he was
 
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Execute/Dumbo said:
I think we might be talking past eachother here? Because the Kul Champion is also a good example of what I'm talking about. The armor wouldn't have made it more likely Mathilde would've killed him, I feel, since by the point she was injured enough she started accumulating wounds Khorne had accured enough successes against Ranald she was already kinda fucked. Rather, it'd have made it more likely Mathilde managed to survive long enough to escape. Our rate of success isn't improved, but our rate of survival is.
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Oh yeah if you mean like that yes. But that is ultimately what all defence trinkets are. You only ever really need them when the goal of the mission changes from succeed to survive. Unless you count surviving to advance after recovery as part of succeed i guess.

Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Quick correction, but it wasn't the champion that nullified our enchantments, it was Khorne that did that, and I don't think theres a set of armour in the setting that can resist the direct attention of a chaos god.

The Von Tarnus armour would not have improved our chances in that fight.
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And he made magic hard to cast. His attention would've nullified the magic in the armour, but it would still remain armour. Which is remarkably tougher against both piercing(at least until its made of spider silk) and blunt damage than robes (thought in that particular case, our aethyric armour did stay up. We would've just faced difficulty in recasting it if it ran out).
 
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Sinsystems said:
Entirely true, which is why I am also fine with the ship. Since it will have some room for lab stuff, plus it will be a fair big quicker.

I think the main difference in research is that a tower is better suited to dropping in a location and doing all the research on site, meanwhile the ship is good for zipping in to do the preliminary research then returning home to do the more detailed stuff.

Also the ship is a more mobile war asset that can raid the enemy, compared to the tower that would act as a defensive hard point for an army.
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The tower is pretty good at raiding too unless the enemy has a bunch of flyers. And if they do have a bunch of flyers the tower is more resilient to attack.

Though if you really want to raid things quickly then what you really want to do is upgrade the gyrocopter as much as possible, it's faster than all the other options and a smaller target to boot.

Prime 2.0 said:
We invented our first battle magic spell just so that the big land ships in the dum expedition could go faster.

This single decision trivialized most of the trip. Nobody that would think to pick a fight with us managed to nut up and do it in time to actually intercept us.

Speed is life. It is the freedom to pick and choose your fights.
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I mean a flying tower would be faster than the land ships too, simply due to ignoring many elements of terrain.

Sparsebeard said:
Sooo, if the skyship ends up winning, I really think we should report the elfcation at least until the ship is finished and delivered.
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No. No more delaying Elfcation. No waiting for a skyship when a perfectly good elvish vessel will do. Ride the waves like a proper sailor.

Execute/Dumbo said:
Look, I'm a supporter of the skyship, but I'm pretty sure if we put off the elfcation any further some voters are going to actually for real turn to pillars of salt. We should go when we can go, and not put another timer before the elfcation.
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Yes, this poster gets it.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Quick correction, but it wasn't the champion that nullified our enchantments, it was Khorne that did that, and I don't think theres a set of armour in the setting that can resist the direct attention of a chaos god.

The Von Tarnus armour would not have improved our chances in that fight.
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pucflek said:
Oh yeah if you mean like that yes. But that is ultimately what all defence trinkets are. You only ever really need them when the goal of the mission changes from succeed to survive. Unless you count surviving to advance after recovery as part of succeed i guess.


And he made magic hard to cast. His attention would've nullified the magic in the armour, but it would still remain armour. Which is remarkably tougher against both piercing(at least until its made of spider silk) and blunt damage than robes (thought in that particular case, our aethyric armour did stay up. We would've just faced difficulty in recasting it if it ran out).
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I'd like to note that unless i'm HORRIBLY misreading things, Khorne didn't actually cancel out mathilde's robe enchantment/aethyric armour anyway. It cancelled out the Rune of Rancour, and it stopped branulhune from hitting with the force of a cannonball when it met the champion's axe, but it doesn't seem to have actually cancelled our defenses

Boney said:
But not fast enough, as the Champion's muscles swell with unnatural vigour as his swing meets your invisible stomach, causing you to cough and retch as your Aethyric Amour absorbs enough to turn what would have been a bisecting into an extremely painful blow to the gut. You look to the Champion's stomach for the response from your Belt, but instead the collar glows red and blood begins to seep down the Champion's neck, the influence of Khorne somehow denying the Rune of Rancour any purchase on His Champion. You backpedal further, looking for any opening and painfully aware that the impact of the axe has turned you visible once more. The air crackles with energy you can't spare the attention to examine and you can taste blood and bile that you swallow down. You let the staff fall from your fingers, trusting it to be sturdy enough to still be intact should you survive long enough to find it, and draw a revolver from its holster. It probably won't make a dent, but it might prove enough of a distraction...

[???: 48+10(Making Amends)-10(Not Their Idiom)=48 vs 75+10(Hatred)-10(Split Attention)=75.]
[Mathilde vs Khornate Champion 3: 38+23-10(Wounded)=51 vs 64+30-10(Wounded)=84.]

Apparently not, as the Champion ignores the bullets slamming into its torso in favour of swinging his axe once more, meeting Branulhune halfway and sending an agonizing jolt through your arm as the two forces arrest each other. Is the Champion swinging with as much force as Kragg's Rune imparts on Branulhune? Surely not, or it would have cut straight through your Aethyric Armour without effort. It must be the aura of the Blood God dulling it, imposing brutal reality where strength is all that matters, not ephemeral energies and cunning artifice. And that is a battlefield that a Champion of Khorne is much more at home in than you are, as it recovers from the impact much faster than you do and swings the pommel of the axe into you, sending you sprawling.
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Abby Normal said:
I'd like to note that unless i'm HORRIBLY misreading things, Khorne didn't actually cancel out mathilde's robe enchantment/aethyric armour anyway. It cancelled out the Rune of Rancour, and it stopped branulhune from hitting with the force of a cannonball when it met the champion's axe, but it doesn't seem to have actually cancelled our defenses
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Yeah, its lower down in another of my posts. It didn't seem to cancel our AA. We would probably just not be able to recast it.
 
pucflek said:
Yeah, its lower down in another of my posts. It didn't seem to cancel our AA. We would probably just not be able to recast it.
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Oh, whoops, should have reread the posts instead of just reskimming; i read them originally on my phone before taking a shower and then just tried to find the right posts afterwards

Edit: Or, seeing as theres an edited mark on that post, i might have read it before you edited it XD
 
DragonParadox said:
Solzic is a knight, someone probably did knight her and she carries herself in that manner to her own understanding, by now Hubert might be a knight de jure and by the warrior culture of his home you could make some case for de facto. None of the others are meaningfully knight like. Jedi are more like warrior monks who happen to fight with an approximation of a sword and Batman... is a billionaire who likes to dress like a bat while punching criminals. I am genuinely hard pressed to think of what part of that is meant to be knight-like.
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What are we even doing here if we can't have fun with the concept of knighthood?
 
[X] Plan Pickle Requests mk IV
[X] Armor of von Tarnus

Ok, after reading the discussion for the first time in months I must say I'm kinda glad I don't have the time to be as invested as I was back in the day.

Also, I really, really don't want the boat.
 
I will also reiterate my desire for us to enchant the tower or ship with a variation of the Knightbringer spell, something that results in a number of very angry ghost knights charging whomever is stupid enough to attack our stuff.
 
Abby Normal said:
I'd like to note that unless i'm HORRIBLY misreading things, Khorne didn't actually cancel out mathilde's robe enchantment/aethyric armour anyway. It cancelled out the Rune of Rancour, and it stopped branulhune from hitting with the force of a cannonball when it met the champion's axe, but it doesn't seem to have actually cancelled our defenses
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My point is that better armour wouldn't have significantly affected our chances—Khorne might have chosen to shut down the AA instead of the Runes, and ultimately the battle was one of the divine, and we won simply because we brought more gods to the fight than the other guy. Being able to survive a couple of extra punches wouldn't have changed the outcome of the fight.

Ever since that fight, the thread has had a fear put into it, and that's resulted in a drive to protect ourselves at any cost. Just look at the almost frantic way we perfected our sword technique afterwards. But I do not believe the Von Tarnus armour is powerful enough to protect us from these high level threats. Is it better than our current armour? Yes. Is it good enough to facetank an Everchosen? No, and on top of that Mathilde is a grey wizard, she shouldn't be facetanking anything. We use stealth, surprise, and information to stack the deck so other people have to facetank us. We have a wide variety of options to survive encounters that are not "survive being hit better", and I believe chasing the mythical impregnable AC is detrimental overall.

The Von Tarnus armour will not protect us from the sorts of threats we might encounter, and the ones it does protect us from, our current armour is adequate.
 
[X] Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer
[X] Armor of von Tarnus

I'd prefer either of these coming up top, preferably the Airship, but ehh I don't mind too much about the Armor.
 
Honestly I'm still kind of hoping that an incredibly persuasive vote write in comes up and takes the whole vote by the storm.
 
Derpmind said:
What are we even doing here if we can't have fun with the concept of knighthood?
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Having fun in general? Don't really see what the concept of knighthood has to do with it.

If the word knight in a context can be replaced with say 'samurai' without becoming any more or less true than the archetype being invoked is honorable warrior with a sword, of which there have been a lot more in history than knights.
 
Since a bunch of people have mentioned that they don't remember their old votes or whether they voted, as a reminder you can look up your previous votes by looking for your name in the tally—each username under a vote is a link to that person's vote. Alternatively, you can search for your own posts with an [><] in them by using the By <username> filter .
Activating Prior Vote Search Protocols.

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LockedMind said:
I probably voted for something back then, but in case I didn't I will vote again.
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Error: Prior Vote Not Found.
Thebigpieman said:
... Did I vote? I don't know if I voted so fuck it I vote.

[X] Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer
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Error: Prior Vote Not Found.
HanChenYou said:
I probably voted before, but just in case I did not.

[x] Armor of von Tarnus
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Prior Vote Found! Difference: You are no longer approval voting for Elector-Countess.
Dragonofelder said:
[X] Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer

Can't remember what I voted for the first time, but Böat is my pick now.
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Prior Vote Found! Difference: You are no longer voting for Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer (Researcher ver) and Armor of von Tarnus
Sa'kage said:
[X] Plan Pickle Requests mk IV
[X] Armor of von Tarnus

Can't recall what i fully voted for, so going for what I prefer.
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Prior Vote Found! Difference: No change

 
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Boney said:
Everyone still gets one vote, and the vote of someone that made it as soon as voting opened counts as much as someone that makes it today. For that reason I can't really see how 'popular player opinion' could be suborned by a late rally without it having just as much popularity.

I think two reasons for the weird feeling about this are:

First, an inherent flaws with a winner-takes-all vote when nobody has a clear majority. I don't know whether this is a matter of there just plain not being an option that has wide enough appeal to get a clear majority, or approval voting being underutilized. In either case, a more widely liked option being found or awareness of approval voting spreading enough to get a clear winner, even this late in the game, I think would be a win, but failing that, just shifting around the plurality winner would very understandably feel bad when it's shifting away from what you like.

Second, me being unable to get this update done, which, yeah. That's on me.
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You could put another temporary threadmark that puts up a new vote that narrows down the options to the top three or something and explaining approval voting, giving the vote a more "this is what the thread truly wants" mandate to the end result.
 
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