Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Sooo, if the skyship ends up winning, I really think we should report the elfcation at least until the ship is finished and delivered.
It would be a safer and, more importantly, much more stylish travel means. I get that people have been waiting forever, but for myself at least travelling to Ulthuan is perhaps the thing I'd be more excited about with the ship.
It would be a safer and, more importantly, much more stylish travel means. I get that people have been waiting forever, but for myself at least travelling to Ulthuan is perhaps the thing I'd be more excited about with the ship.
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- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Oops. Sorry, I wasn't tracking the context super well, I'm running on like seven hours of sleep in the last 48 due to needing to get all my ducks in a row for work before going on vacation.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Any questions about the utilitarian value of Mathilde having the armor can be answered by pointing to the College's growing pile of Orbs of Sorcery. This is not an equivalent exchange. Anything Mathilde asks for cannot equal the value of giving the Colleges more/better Battle Altars, magical infrastructure, and access to both Orbs and Vitae for experimentation. Even if you truly don't think Mathilde will make use of it, the Colleges still come out way ahead in making use of what Mathilde has given them. The Armor is a singular artifact that can only be worn by one person, whereas we've given both a College-wide infrastructure boost and cracked open new research horizons all in one swoop. Perhaps it's not the most optimal use of the Armor possible, but I think Mathilde has more than earned something for herself at this point.
By your definition, Jedi Knights aren't knights. Batman isn't the Dark Knight. And more prosaically, neither Hubert nor Soizic are knights. Knighthood in fiction can be just as much about aesthetic and theming as it can be about literally riding on a (shadow)horse in service of your Lord. (Something Mathilde has also done.) With or without metal armor, Mathilde is more knight-coded than any other wizard in the colleges. It's fine if you don't feel that way, but 'knight-wizard' is a huge part of Mathilde's character that I enjoy greatly.
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- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
Look, I'm a supporter of the skyship, but I'm pretty sure if we put off the elfcation any further some voters are going to actually for real turn to pillars of salt. We should go when we can go, and not put another timer before the elfcation.
Getting the ship and not using it for the elfcation seems like such a waste though.
- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
You don't understand how desperate the elfcation campaigners are, I'm pretty sure we've had the elfcation option open for longer than we haven't by this point. It's a bit of a waste, but for the sake of not driving people to the brink of insanity I think it's a workable compromise.
But also, more seriously, I don't think the project should take more than a turn and a few actions of Mathilde. We got the Eye Of Gazul up and running within a turn, so this should be fine.
Solzic is a knight, someone probably did knight her and she carries herself in that manner to her own understanding, by now Hubert might be a knight de jure and by the warrior culture of his home you could make some case for de facto. None of the others are meaningfully knight like. Jedi are more like warrior monks who happen to fight with an approximation of a sword and Batman... is a billionaire who likes to dress like a bat while punching criminals. I am genuinely hard pressed to think of what part of that is meant to be knight-like.
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Ulthuan wouldn't allow the ship into Nagarythe. The invitation is for one person. It was not for Mathilde + a war machine + crew.
Honestly this gets into one of my bugbears about the thread's attitude towards visiting Nagarythe. Daroir gave the invitation to a Magister to offer tutoring in guerilla warfare against Druchii. We don't need to be more prepared. We're already overqualified in comparison to the offer!
I think differently, that it is a defining tool, because it makes so many more assassinations/sabotages practical and essentially safe.
For instance, it makes an enemy having a known or findable command post/position a foolhardy move.
- Location
- somewhere over there.
- Pronouns
- They/It
Which is a good argument about accepting the armor rather than taking no reward, but doesn't actually address taking the armor vs taking something else. Whatever the reward, the colleges get the same Orbs. Yes, there's a cost for what we get in return (though the cost for the piecemeal plan is competitively low), but the armor uniquely takes subverting very valuable away from the colleges for as long as Mathilde lives, while the votes that involve making something new leave those things as well as the Orbs in circulation.
Edit: Oops, had a half post left in drafts. Sorry for the unnecessary ping glau
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- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
I feel like people underestimate how insanely layered our defences are already. First off if the enemy doesn't have magical defences, Mathilde immediately autopasses any check to sneak past them. Secondly, if they do have magical defences, she's still invisible, teleporting, and capable of casting illusions. If they then detect her through that, Mathilde has her already quite good armor alongside a belt that negates the first spell cast at her and reflects any damage she takes, and if she gets severely hurt through that, she has several fullheal charges that is completely invisible to mundane senses until it's used.
At the moment, right now? The enemy having a findable command post is already practically suicide. The armor doesn't actually allow Mathilde to more reliably kill a target, it allows her to more reliably get out alive, because she has so many layers of skills, spells and equipment to let her infiltrate and assassinate someone that if someone is capable enough to force into an all out brawl with the Von Tarnus armor it is vastly more likely that she gets bogged down by mooks while her target escapes than that she manages to somehow pierce through a full bodyguard force that she couldn't from surprise.
And getting out alive more often is a fine desire! I think it's hitting the point of diminishing returns, and personally I don't like the aesthetic change it has for Mathilde in general, but it undeniably makes her almost nightmare to actually pin down and kill, even moreso than she already is. It's just that that's kind of all it does.
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[X] Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer
I agree that we have a lot of protections but I think that last bit may be going a bit far. As seen in our fight with Drycha is the enemy is a lord they are still plenty able to contest us even if taken by complete surprise in unfavorable circumstances and at our level lords are the only ones commanding armies we would care to contest.
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- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
Drycha's actually a great point, because she demonstrates exactly what I mean. If Mathilde had the Von Tarnus armor and fumbled the fireflask, then it wouldn't have helped her kill Drycha, since she was already casting a spell to escape. It'd have just ensured Mathilde would've been fine if Drycha had been going for something offensive instead. It'd wouldn't have raised our chances of killing- well, banishing -Drycha, it'd have just made it much more likely she'd survive if things went wrong, because Mathilde already stacks the deck so damn well offensively speaking.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
I don't disagree but at the same time, the Kul in the tent still gave us quite a workout, and in the end, when we faced Khornate champion, he nullified almost every magical advantage we had.
I am not gonna say that the Armour isn't an overkill, because in most situation it is, but even if we met an anti-magic enemy, the Armour of von Tarnus without any of the things that make it special is still suit of armour. Or maybe half-plate, i forget which.
EDIT: I mean, i am not really concerned that much about future Khornate encounters, but in extremis, there are definitely uses where it also helps us in unique ways on top of being a general defence boost for every situation.
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Drycha was already swimming against the tide by then, we had stacked the deck as far as it would go. Imagine that upon hearing that there was a warhost of Athel Loren we had gone 'I'm going to assassinate their lord' and just went and did that. I would argue that in that situation the armor would have been impactful, though it would not have guaranteed success or survival.
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
I'd imagine that in such a scenario we'd stack the deck in other ways. Like please keep in mind that Mathilde was able to assassinate the Tzar and was able to do it in such a way that pointed in a specific way without leaving any evidence that she didn't deliberately want to leave behind.
Also please keep in mind that we also have the Knightbringer in our pocket, it hasn't popped up narratively but in such an assassination situation the Knightbringer acts as the perfect distraction to allow Mathilde to slip away or get to her target.
- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
I think we might be talking past eachother here? Because the Kul Champion is also a good example of what I'm talking about. The armor wouldn't have made it more likely Mathilde would've killed him, I feel, since by the point she was injured enough she started accumulating wounds Khorne had accured enough successes against Ranald she was already kinda fucked. Rather, it'd have made it more likely Mathilde managed to survive long enough to escape. Our rate of success isn't improved, but our rate of survival is.
I mean, yeah. You're implying we wouldn't always be trying to stack the deck as far as it'd go. Confidently walking into the forest to kill Drycha is probably a bad example though, since it took Mathilde several combat turns just to percieve her even when completely unpressured and with Drycha making some rushed moves. The only scenario where the armor would have improved her chances to actually kill Drycha in that situation would have been if she rolled poorly enough to wander face first into a trap, and then Drycha obligingly walked into the melee alongside the rest of her forces too. More likely she'd have just gotten tarpitted by branchwraiths while Drycha sat back and pelted her with magic and counterspells. Success rates not improved, survival rates improved.
- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
Oh my god I completely forgot about Knightbringer. We have so many layers of defence I'm forgetting about them.
The Tsar was never the kind of threat that would call for armor. If the objective was just to kill one man with no arcane protections we Mathilde could have done it as a Journeywoman, the challenge there was to frame the right party and keep suspicion off Boris.
As for knightbringer, it's a pretty impressive spell don't get me wrong, but that's because there are few non-Chaotic ways to get summons. Any half-trained Chaos Magus could produce its equivalent a dozen times over.
King Arthur
The Once and Future King
[X] Armor of von Tarnus
[X] Elector-Countess
Edit: I didn't vote earlier because it seemed pointless, I thought the vote was settled. Now that it's in the air again, I'll vote.
[X] Elector-Countess
Edit: I didn't vote earlier because it seemed pointless, I thought the vote was settled. Now that it's in the air again, I'll vote.
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