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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I think Mathilde could vouch for Johann's loyalty and reliability, but he probably needs more in the experience and ability aspects before he gets considered by the Gold leadership. Mathilde is quite the anomaly when it comes to her track record, you can't really use her as a good benchmark for how fast you can be promoted.

And while Johann certainly is a good researcher, excellent at punching things, and quite good in his area of Chamon, I'd definitely say he lacks achievements that can be solely attributed to him. But time can and probably will remedy that, as long as he keeps living long enough and he doesn't suffer any bad miscasts.

But he might not even want to be Lord Magister. What Johann previously wanted was to prove not just to others but also to himself that he was a competent, respected Magister - and he definitely is one now. For a while now his main focus has been, as his character sheet indicates, becoming the best version of himself. He's become friends with elves and dwarves both, and honed his body quite a bit, he got a fucking cool gold lizard Hysh-powered arm, and he does reliable, good work in the Waystone Project, and in WEB-MAT in general.

Maybe he's fine with this status quo, and with a small but noticeable improvement of himself and his magic across time. Or maybe he'll surprise us one day and end up killing a giant or chimera or something single-handedly, in a really impressive way.
 
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I kind of hope that without warning one day we'll walk by Jonathon and then do a doubletake because he's a different colour and learn that he's somehow managed to gild himself with gromil.
 
Huh thinking about it thanks to this talk of Johnny, it occurs to me that gilding is probably something like a kind of controlled Arcane Mark inducement ritual, this isn't an immediate thing certainly, but it might be worth making inquires into what it would take to acquire the available research on the process if we want to further our understanding of arcane marks and improving them and ourselves.

Might be a thing we can spend goodwill from the Orbs on.
 
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Neathbow said:
Huh thinking about it thanks to this talk of Johnny, it occurs to me that gilding is probably something like a kind of controlled Arcane Mark inducement ritual, this isn't an immediate thing certainly, but it might be worth making inquires into what it would take to acquire the available research on the process if we want to further our understanding of arcane marks and improving them and ourselves.

Might be a thing we can spend goodwill from the Orbs on.
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I don't know how transferable the research would be from Chrome to Gray. The hounds were mostly research on the aperitions themselves.
 
Johann's a friend, and a reliable one to boot, but he's not by any stretch LM material. He can't do two thirds of the Gold College's stuff, and while he's good at the remaining third he's not astoundingly so. He also doesn't particularly have the temperament, as far as I can see
 
Sparsebeard said:
- Second, Mathilde has leverage that she could use if she really wanted to get Johann promoted, be it favors, secrets, or even things like the upcoming Orb of Sorcery or some AV.
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If we get Johann promoted by just excessively bribing the other Golds he's never going to be as trusted nor have the same reputation if he gained the title with no or only a little help.

Egrimm's case is different because everyone knew he had at least bare minimum LM level abilities and deeds he was just held up with the politicking and managing to secure Mathilde's backing could be seen as a plus.

Johann doesn't have anything that'd make Gold College LMs go 'wow': he didn't really do anything Great Deed worthy since we know him, he did publish but not in exceptional quantity, his magic is specialised so that's a minus, he hasn't made a significant donation to the Colleges like the Rooms nor a huge individual contribution to a College/Imperial ally.

He's probably... just a bit above average overall?
 
Lord Magisters are exceptional people among Magisters, who are already a pretty select group. The vast majority of wizards never become LM, but it doesn't mean their bada t their job. There's no shame in being "just" extremely competent instead of exceptional.
 
K von Carstein said:
Lord Magisters are exceptional people among Magisters, who are already a pretty select group. The vast majority of wizards never become LM, but it doesn't mean their bada t their job. There's no shame in being "just" extremely competent instead of exceptional.
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Johann is pretty exceptional, but he is too specialized in the Elemental/Transhumanism thing.

I wonder though, if his collaboration with the Grey Lords could give him some ideas.
 
Johann said:
Johann
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Johann.

I know that we are not a super mechanically heavy quest, particularly in the recent years, but it is still good to look at charsheets at times like these.
Johann from Dramatic Personae said:
Diplomacy: 23 - Johann is naturally likeable and gets along with most beings.
Martial: 24 - This may have gotten out of hand.
Stewardship: 15 - Some might call gilding your body 'ludicrously expensive'. Johann considers it an investment.
Intrigue: 20 - When most of your body is gold, you learn not to draw attention.
Piety: 15 - An ill-advised spell gave him a glimpse of the Ancestor Gods in their prime, converting him on the spot.
Learning: 19 - Johann has learned to work around his mental blocks and inflexible magic.
Magic: 7 - Johann has a natural gift for elemental Chamon.
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Johann is very good, in general. He is not "a bit above average" - that's a very respectable statline. He easily qualifies for an Elector Count adviser position without quest oriented "stuff happens and an apprentice lands into a seat reserved for masters" circumstances.

He doesn't have a 30 or near-30 that is typically indicative, in CK Warhammer quests, that character is getting into Epic-ish territory, though. And he doesn't have 4+ stats at 25+. For the absolute cream-of-the-crop category, he isn't quite there.
 
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Prospalz said:
Johann.

I know that we are not a super mechanically heavy quest, particularly in the recent years, but it is still good to look at charsheets at times like these.

Johann is very good, in general. He is not "a bit above average" - that's a very respectable statline. He easily qualifies for an Elector Count adviser position without quest oriented "stuff happens and an apprentice lands into a seat reserved for masters" circumstances.

He doesn't have a 30 or near-30 that is typically indicative, in CK Warhammer quests, that character is getting into Epic-ish territory, though. And he doesn't have 4+ stats at 25+. For the absolute cream-of-the-crop category, he isn't quite there.
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I think the statline has to sadly be discarded for measuring in this quest. Because as useful as it is it's scale is no longer good enough to show where we stand in relation to lots of people. At least that's my take on it.
Mostly because it implies we could take on malekith and such in combat and I am doubtful on that claim.
 
Prospalz said:
Johann is very good, in general. He is not "a bit above average" - that's a very respectable statline. He easily qualifies for an Elector Count adviser position without quest oriented "stuff happens and an apprentice lands into a seat reserved for masters" circumstances.

He doesn't have a 30 or near-30 that is typically indicative, in CK Warhammer quests, that character is getting into Epic-ish territory, though. And he doesn't have 4+ stats at 25+. For the absolute cream-of-the-crop category, he isn't quite there.
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He doesn't have any stat at 25+ and his Learning (aka the wizard stat) is only ok by College standards. Yes, he's got very good diplomacy and martial but with the rest he's just really solid but not spectacular.

I'd imagine the typical LM statline is 1-2 stats above 25 and Learning above 20 (or otherwise a fairly high average if no stats are above 25).

Tobtorp said:
Mostly because it implies we could take on malekith and such in combat and I am doubtful on that claim.
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I kind of doubt Malekith is capped at 30. Didn't elves in general have higher stats? I'd imagine Malekith's would be particularly ridiculous with dozens upon dozens of traits.
 
IronFist said:
Johann is pretty exceptional, but he is too specialized in the Elemental/Transhumanism thing.

I wonder though, if his collaboration with the Grey Lords could give him some ideas.
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He's not that exceptional. There's plenty of other gilded Gold wizards who can cast battle magic and did things much more spectacular than him.

Zero Gravitas said:
I kind of doubt Malekith is capped at 30. Didn't elves in general have higher stats? I'd imagine Malekith's would be particularly ridiculous with dozens upon dozens of traits.
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Yeah, Malekith is more than 5000 years old and didn't spend them doing nothing. It's likely most of his stats are in the 40s and 50s, with as you said a wagonload of very powerful Traits. The one thing that makes me think Mathilde wouldn't instantly be obliterated when facing him is her stupidly OP belt and sword, and even then the sword is likely weaker than Malekith's own equipment.
 
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Prospalz said:
...?

It really does not. I am sorry, I'd like to write something better than "...no" but you'll have to explain your reasoning, this is totally out of left field for me.
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Oh I get it's out of left field. It's mostly my impression that the way we currently use the statline from whfrp isn't useable with actual statlines for established characters. There isn't a trait system as we use it in whfrp (afaik). At least that's my take on it.
 
Tobtorp said:
I think the statline has to sadly be discarded for measuring in this quest. Because as useful as it is it's scale is no longer good enough to show where we stand in relation to lots of people. At least that's my take on it.
Mostly because it implies we could take on malekith and such in combat and I am doubtful on that claim.
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Mathilde vs Malekith would go a bit like Völundr vs Asarnil.

Where it looks like Mathilde is matching Malekith, for as long as it takes Malekith to decide to exert himself slightly.
Then Mathilde Dies.
 
Tobtorp said:
Oh I get it's out of left field. It's mostly my impression that the way we currently use the statline from whfrp isn't useable with actual statlines for established characters. There isn't a trait system as we use it in whfrp (afaik). At least that's my take on it.
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Are we using a WHFRP systems anywhere? We primarily use it for lore and worldbuilding references. There was an old Fantasy Battles charsheet, during a brief period where Boney experimented with in-detail combat, but that did get shelved.

Stats are Crusader Kings, + traits and equipment.
Malekith
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Boney does prefer not to post charsheets for "Far Better Than You" characters to leave himself flex space and not force awkward patterns like stat inflation and excessive bookkeeping. I think if you put a gun to his head and forced to assign a bunch of numbers to Kragg or Malekith, he'd prolly leave the stats at a fairly conservative 30+ and then go all in on traits and highlight the fact that their equipment is some of the best in the world. Base stats in excess of 40 gets pretty ugly in CK.

Or maybe he would work out something else. Stats are of utility for the purpose of figuring things out, but like, there is a bunch of things that don't translate and doesn't have hard/well-defined mechanical correlation, like how low rolls for high-level characters in their area of specialization mean different things than low rolls for low level characters who don't know what they are doing.
 
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Generally speaking, most people have traits and skills. So while Mathilde may be rocking a 29 learning and seem like a really good burito cook, cause wow just look at that learning.

There may be a Dwarven cook called Bobgar with 10 in learning. However, he has used his AP so to speak and learned a lot of skills, like
Dwarven burito cook: You've learned how to fashion Burito in the classical dwarven style, +5 learning while making Buritos.
Human Burito cook: Even if it's not to your taste, in your search for ever greater buritos you've even learned how even the Umgi does it, +3 learning while making Buritos.
Master Chief: You've spent years learning how to make the best buritos, +10 learning while making Buritos.
Burito tools: Tools crafted by Kragg himself, so that nothing may hinder you in the creation of the grandest burito to have ever visited this World, +5 learning while wielding rune tools.

And Suddenly, even if on face value Mathilde have the higher learning and should create the best kind of buritos, she is beating out by someone with "just" a 10 in learning, because Bobgar spends all his time learning how to make better buritos, and thus have the relevant skills. And that's not to account for the narrative value of having something like "Master chief", which from what i've gathered Boney also takes into account.
 
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Sa'kage said:
Generally speaking, most people have traits and skills. So while Mathilde may be rocking a 29 learning and seem like a really good burito cook, cause wow just look at that learning.

There may be a Dwarven cook called Bobgar with 10 in learning. However, he has used his AP so to speak and learned a lot of skills, like
Dwarven burito cook: You've learned how to fashion Burito in the classical dwarven style, +5 learning while making Buritos.
Human Burito cook: Even if it's not to your taste, in your search for ever greater buritos you've even learned how even the Umgi does it, +3 learning while making Buritos.
Master Chief: You've spent years learning how to make the best buritos, +10 learning while making Buritos.
Burito tools: Tools crafted by Kragg himself, so that nothing may hinder you in the creation of the grandest burito to have ever visited this World, +5 learning while wielding rune tools.

And Suddenly, even if on face value Mathilde have the higher learning and should create the best kind of buritos, she is beating out by someone with "just" a 10 in learning, because Bobgar spends all his time learning how to make better buritos, and thus have the relevant skills. And that's not to account for the narrative value of having something like "Master chief", which from what i've gathered Boney also takes into account.
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We have never seen anyone that specialized though. Replace the admittedly funny burrito with the more pedestrian sword here, the martial 10 character who actually hits with +33 in personal combat seems improbable not least because I do not think we have ever encountered the sword that just gives you +5 to rolls. Tools as far as we have seen modify the possibility space of using a skill, the same way many spells do, invisibility for intrigue. The only spells we know that just add a bonus are ones that have to do with fate and luck like those of Azyr or Ranald's Coin.

Much like Kazador and his army I think your cook would have to start at a 15 not a 10 if he is going to see the rarefied heights of +33 to Burito making.
 
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