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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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DeadmanwalkingXI said:
There's still an enormous difference between being able to get your God to do stuff even 50% of the time you ask and them only doing stuff when they feel like it (which is maybe once or twice a lifetime, if that, for most).
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Alratan said:
I'm not sure why that is though. Why should a god intervening on their priests' behalf be so unusual rather than being the core of the social contract between deity and devotee?
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I think the real question here is what exactly counts as divine intervention. Because Ranald has been giving Mathilde his Blessing since Turn 2, and you could consider that consistent twice-a-year intervention, but if you mean 'once-in-a-lifetime uppercase-M Miracle', we'd almost certainly point to the Only Gork/Mork impromptu heist.

The issue there, of course, is that even at the start of the quest Mathilde was uncommonly devout, at 15 Piety. And it'd be a bit awkward to ask Boney what exactly the Piety threshold is for ordinary people to get similar Blessings. I imagine a good number of people who pray to Ranald aren't as devoted or as amusing for Ranald to follow around and give a helping hand every so often.

Tasoli said:
Enchantment don't miscast and we can tell wheter they would work or not beforehand by knowing the output of the enchantments. Combine that with Windherder and we might be able to create a staff that cast single high magic spell when triggered. That might be neat.
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A) The process of making an enchantment is harder than casting the same spell normally, and can miscast - see our Shadowsteed/Clarity enchantment with Egrimm. That's one of Mathilde's core spells and Relatively Simple, and it still gave an (admittedly minor) miscast.
B) It'd have to be a really good spell to justify the, again, risk of eight simultaneous miscasts.
 
Mellowfellow said:
There's also that social with Joerg the Taalite where he claimed he's not a priest but had "Divine marks" on his soul, which he explained by saying that Gods can act through their followers if they wanted to. But I don't think Gods can just possess random people, they'd need some prerequisite access like a devout soul or circumstantial alignment, like when Mathilde accidentally did a counter-ritual in Cunningly Brutal fashion (Mork).
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The scene started with Joerg very clearly using divine magic as he sanctified the shrine he was setting up. He disagreed with being called 'Anointed', the word for a priest that can use divine magic, because he's not a member of Taal's formal priesthood. He didn't say anything about whether he could use divine magic, which is what Mathilde was actually asking about, and when she tried to press him further he brushed her off again with the 'Gods can work through any of their followers' line. Mathilde took the hint at that point and stopped asking about something he clearly didn't want to discuss.
 
You know in the fantasy world of infinite AP there is a way to settle some of these questions about how gods work:
  1. Get our hands on a priest of a Forbidden, though not Chaos God, someone like say Stormfells
  2. Stick them in the most magically and runically warded room we can make
  3. Use interrogation like we did with Querch to gain their trust
  4. Bribe and cajole whatever information on the divine they have out of them
  5. If we are feeling spicy publish :V
 
Mellowfellow said:
They are similar results achieved through different methods? Divine miracles or blessings happen through Mathilde's conduit which although she has no control over, still happens by virtue of the types of high stake divine situations she gets into. There are tangible effects and examples where rolls were affected by such with the prime example of Ranald vs Khornite Champion blessings.
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If the result is "magic happens", then sure.
But in practice they are very different things.
Which seems to be what was argued, no, Mathilde can't cast divine magic, and asking Ranald to act through her is likely to result in a big fat nothing 99% of the time, at best.
 
DragonParadox said:
Stick them in the most magically and runically warded room we can make
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This reminds me; we could probably use our Karaz-A-Karak Moderate boon to get the College some magically-inert rooms, like Mathilde has for studying things without background magic muddling things. Less important than the Rooms of Calamity we already got them, but still very useful for magical academic studies.
 
Sticking a priest of Stromfells into a magic prison and interrogating him for secrets of the shark god... that sounds like the opening scene of a fantasy Sharknado film.
 
Valmond said:
We have been told that Mathilde can't cast divine magic, and gods acting through person and person casting divine magic are different things.
What is the purpose of arguing that both are the same?
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Valmond said:
If the result is "magic happens", then sure.
But in practice they are very different things.
Which seems to be what was argued, no, Mathilde can't cast divine magic, and asking Ranald to act through her is likely to result in a big fat nothing 99% of the time, at best.
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Since your original post seemed like a reply to mine, I did clarify my position as "Mathilde has indirect access to divine miracles when circumstances align" which never said that she can cast them herself. She's not asking for Gods to intervene on her behalf, she just encounters situations where such divine assistance is more likely to happen, facilitated by her high piety, Avatar trait connection, etc.
 
Parabola said:
A) The process of making an enchantment is harder than casting the same spell normally, and can miscast - see our Shadowsteed/Clarity enchantment with Egrimm. That's one of Mathilde's core spells and Relatively Simple, and it still gave an (admittedly minor) miscast.
B) It'd have to be a really good spell to justify the, again, risk of eight simultaneous miscasts.
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That was Windherding experiment and miscast only happened during the enchantment. What I am suggesting is we design something (i.e. Staff) that has eight different enchanted splinters that is created before hand according to said design. This way no wizard touch eachother then those enchanted splinters can be put together. With Mathilde winderding the said design there should be no dhar provided invidual components fit the requerements.

Hardest part of this would be the design obviously since Mathilde has to grok the High Magic spell enough to see how it is weaved together and break it down to 8 pieces and have those pieces enchanted by other wizards. But should be possible.

Essentially what I am suggesting would be more of a machine than anything else I think.

Complication might be that no single enchantement can do all the weavings needed to get a high magic spell and might need more than one enchantment per wind to get all the right waves at the right times.

Eike would be actually great help on this as she figures out how materials effect the winds and might help in engineering a design and figure out material solutions to ease the pressure on Enchantement requerements.
 
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K von Carstein said:
I wasn't aware there was it, do you have a link?
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Here:
forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest Fantasy - Users' Choice!

I decided to make another compilation post, this one for the time the thread unveiled a most cleverly hidden plot twist: Mathilde is a secret vampire! If you read this later, note that this is just the main line, and some pretty nice posts were cut, or it would become incomprehensible. I also...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com forums.sufficientvelocity.com
 
Mellowfellow said:
Since your original post seemed like a reply to mine, I did clarify my position as "Mathilde has indirect access to divine miracles when circumstances align" which never said that she can cast them herself. She's not asking for Gods to intervene on her behalf, she just encounters situations where such divine assistance is more likely to happen, facilitated by her high piety, Avatar trait connection, etc.
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Yes, and such things have happened, and may happen again.
But the discussions, as far as i can tell, has been about casting divine magic, which she, quite explicitly, can't.
 
Tasoli said:
That was Windherding experiment and miscast only happened during the enchantment. What I am suggesting is we design something (i.e. Staff) that has eight different enchanted splinters that is created before hand according to said design. This way no wizard touch eachother then those enchanted splinters can be put together. With Mathilde winderding the said design there should be no dhar provided invidual components fit the requerements.

Hardest part of this would be the design obviously since Mathilde has to grok the High Magic spell enough to see how it is weaved together and break it down to 8 pieces and have those pieces enchanted by other wizards. But should be possible.

Essentially what I am suggesting would be more of a machine than anything else I think. Eike would be actually great help on this as she figures out how materials effect the winds and might help in engineering a design and figure out material solutions to ease the pressure on Enchantement requerements.
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I don't think there's any world where Boney would let us get away with automatizing fucking Qhaysh. By my understanding, the 'weaving it together' part is the thing that makes it Qhaysh. It's not like trying to make a car and having each component made by a different team and then put together, it's trying to make two or more Winds (which are very independent and try to get away from the others) work together in harmony.

Like eight instruments playing in an orchestra, only, humans can only play the one instrument safely and elves can play eight at once without sounding like a dying cat.

And just like he always tells us that an enchantment of a Wind used by a user of said Wind is typically more efficient (e.g. Johann's Hysh-enchanted arm would be stronger against undead or demons when used by a Hysh user), I imagine a resulting Qhaysh enchantment would be best if we, you know, actually knew how the damn thing worked.
 
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BurnNote said:
Here:
forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest Fantasy - Users' Choice!

I decided to make another compilation post, this one for the time the thread unveiled a most cleverly hidden plot twist: Mathilde is a secret vampire! If you read this later, note that this is just the main line, and some pretty nice posts were cut, or it would become incomprehensible. I also...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com forums.sufficientvelocity.com
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What I get from this that we've created a Vampire Coven that's cross magical discipline, cross national, and cross racial... without consciously being aware of it.

Amazing. Truly, the most Warhammer character.
 
Parabola said:
I don't think there's any world where Boney would let us get away with automatizing fucking Qhaysh. By my understanding, the 'weaving it together' part is the thing that makes it Qhaysh. It's not like trying to make a car and having each component made by a different team and then put together, it's trying to make two or more Winds (which are very independent and try to get away from the others) work together in harmony.

Like eight instruments playing in an orchestra, only, humans can only play the one instrument safely and elves can play eight at once without sounding like a dying cat.

And just like he always tells us that an enchantment of a Wind used by a user of said Wind is typically more efficient (e.g. Johann's Hysh-enchanted arm would be stronger against undead or demons when used by a Hysh user), I imagine a resulting Qhaysh enchantment would be best if we, you know, actually knew how the damn thing worked.
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Bad example, aside from using a computer, I can also rig a rube goldberg machine to play instruments. Youtube is full of that stuff including one that has somebody rig a car with some sticks and hit instruments as they are going at high speed.

And while I don't claim resulting high magic with our machine would be the best, I do think it is possible. Mostly. We should take look at high magic first I think.

At any rate what we are doing with Waysone is actually fairly similar to what I imagine our work would end up looking like altough with 8 winds rather than runes an like. Might end up as a tower or something. Depends on high magic I suppose.

But still that would be an advancement for the collages no?
 
Tasoli said:
Bad example, aside from using a computer, I can also rig a rube goldberg machine to play instruments. Youtube is full of that stuff including one that has somebody rig a car with some sticks and hit instruments as they are going at high speed.

And while I don't claim resulting high magic with our machine would be the best, I do think it is possible. Mostly. We should take look at high magic first I think.
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The thing that is missing from the analogy is that the instruments are partially made out of snakes that hate you and your machine and are sometimes actively trying to kill you or sabotage your machine.
 
Generally high magic needs someone making the winds play nice, a enchantment would need it's own mechanism to make 8 enchantments play nice to get a coherent end result.
I think just having 8 enchantments go off Simultaneously next to each other might be a bit much.
As for the waystones? The whole way the leylines work is to abuse how the winds interact with each other and dhar to not have to actually wrangle them but have them wrangle each other. The storage and release mechanism are still the most complicated part of a waystone and they don't even try to be high magic.
 
Tasoli said:
Bad example, aside from using a computer, I can also rig a rube goldberg machine to play instruments. Youtube is full of that stuff including one that has somebody rig a car with some sticks and hit instruments as they are going at high speed.

And while I don't claim resulting high magic with our machine would be the best, I do think it is possible. Mostly. We should take look at high magic first I think.

At any rate what we are doing with Waysone is actually fairly similar to what I imagine our work would end up looking like altough with 8 winds rather than runes an like. Might end up as a tower or something. Depends on high magic I suppose.

But still that would be an advancement for the collages no?
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Way, way back when we were talking about making an alarm system for K8P before we took the Dum job @Boney told us that any kind of 'magic that does magic' enchantment is Tzeench bait even if we could manage it. Since I know this will be brought up, I think the reason Waystones do not count for that is that they are not producing physical effects, they are not doing spells with the magic that is passing through the network, they are just moving it along, like an arcane sewage system
 
Did we get everything we want out of apparition binding? Because I feel like we could definitely bind a second batch of knights for a different spell.

Having more battle magic than melkoth's seems pretty valuable and binding like 5 or 10 knights for that seems like it would be effective, between our ability to teleport anywhere on the battlefield and also go invisible while our knights wreak havoc.

I get why we went for a defender style spell initially, but making a more offensive battle magic variant still seems like it could be in the cards.
 
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