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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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BurnNote said:
Mathilde will stab them because shadow knife goes through non-magical armor, so the untouched clothing can serve as a really subtle clue (one we can tell Boris to use as a justification, if necessary) that something fucky went on.
Why would a Lahmian do it with magic rather than a knife? Because not carrying a knife allows you to feign innocence. During infiltration, if spotted, you could go "I am but an unarmed woman" and have a pretty decent chance of gettting away with it. As for the shadow dagger not being a common mastery? Fair, but she could just throw a normal one into his heart. Also, other people also have unknown magic. Boris doesn't require a crime scene he can perfectly reconstruct using known magics. He just needs something he can use to point at his targerts (on whom it seems he already has dirt in other ways).
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The issue is that the request was for the method to be a way that can only be done with magic and the method doesn't do that. Yes a shadow dagger could be the cause or the assassin just moved aside the clothing before stabbing (or what if the Tzar sleeps bare chested?), yes magic could have caused the Tzar not to struggle or it could have been some poison or anesthetic.

I get the idea, but I feel like the current plan leaves too many ways for it to be done without magic.
 
Look, can we at least have people not vote for nighttime visit? It simply doesn't implicate the Lahmians at all, and we are better than that. It's disappointing, boring, beneath us, and most of all, accepting failure.
 
Sinsystems said:
  1. That seems like a very flimsy justification to do that rather than the traditional throat slit that would also be easier to aim due to not having to deal with the blankets.
  2. Keep in mind that the Shadow Dagger variation is a unique thing for Mathilde that we have yet to codify. Most people with shadow knives has to throw them. So most Vampires would be used to using normal knives rather than shadow knives.
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I really do not think there is a tradition on how to kill people and if we assume this is someone who is not primarily an assassin they would be inclined to go for the organ they are most worried about personally

While that is true there are all sorts of other magical items and spells that bypass dead matter and cut only into living flesh. also if you have good aim you can just throw a shadow knife though a sleeping person's heart
 
Sinsystems said:
  1. That seems like a very flimsy justification to do that rather than the traditional throat slit that would also be easier to aim due to not having to deal with the blankets.
  2. Keep in mind that the Shadow Dagger variation is a unique thing for Mathilde that we have yet to codify. Most people with shadow knives has to throw them. So most Vampires would be used to using normal knives rather than shadow knives.
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The main reason we want a shadow knife is to twig people on to the fact that it was magic that did it. If the Tzar has a deep stab wound yet his clothing is untouched, even the least suspicious people would be able to see that something hinky is going on
 
Redshirt Army said:
There's single digit numbers of people who can do what Mathilde does in the entire Old World.
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Parabola said:
This says more about how Mathilde makes it look easy than anything else. Assassins of this level of skill are rare, let alone ones with Ulgu on their side.
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If you count Skavenblight as part of the Old World, then there's technically at least 13 people with the exact type of skillset required to take Vlad down with Ulgu, they just haven't done it. Deathmasters are better than Mathilde at this, but assassinating heads of state is a bit too bold of a move for them. Especially right now, when they're cleaning up the remnants of a civil war.
 
[X] Nighttime Visit With Style
-[X] Use Mockery of Death so there is no sign of struggle, then stab him in the heart with a Shadow Knife. Leave the room by Substance of Shadows or Smoke and Mirrors, leaving behind an unnaturally quiet death.

Redshirt Army said:
There's single digit numbers of people who can do what Mathilde does in the entire Old World.
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And if they actually did assassinations like this every decade or so each, no ruler would last longer than 2-3 years without dying.

So we've either got a whole bunch of "assassins" running around who are nothing more than glorified kneebreakers, there's a lot fewer assassins than is generally assumed, or there's an unknown factor keeping rulers and nobles alive.

Abhorsen said:
Look, can we at least have people not vote for nighttime visit? It simply doesn't implicate the Lahmians at all, and we are better than that. It's disappointing, boring, beneath us, and most of all, accepting failure.
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While I don't want to quibble, doing the job exactly as asked (quietly, leave no evidence) and then calling that a failure rubs me the wrong way.

I hate the idea that anything less than absolutely perfect is a failure.
 
Glau said:
While I don't want to quibble, doing the job exactly as asked (quietly, leave no evidence) and then calling that a failure rubs me the wrong way.

I hate the idea that anything less than absolutely perfect is a failure.
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It's literally not as asked though. Boris said no evidence, then his next sentence immediately asked for evidence of Lahmians, specifically really subtel evidence of Lahmians. So yes, it is failing. It's 100% accepting failure. It's a complete lack of understanding about requirements.

And to people that are voting for just the heart attack, I agree with you that it's better than Nighttime Visit with Style. But please approval vote it so that Nighttime Visit doesn't win?

EDIT: Also, does someone know how to combine the tally? People that include the secondary part of the vote aren't being combined in the tally with people who don't.
 
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Glau said:
And if they actually did assassinations like this every decade or so each, no ruler would last longer than 2-3 years without dying.
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Right. So clearly people on Mathilde's level actually perform assassinations of heads of state far less often than "once a decade".

That seems... perfectly congruent with both the OOC setting and with Mathilde's lived experience. I don't see how that requires an "unknown factor".
 
Redshirt Army said:
Right. So clearly people on Mathilde's level actually perform assassinations of heads of state far less often than "once a decade".

That seems... perfectly congruent with both the OOC setting and with Mathilde's lived experience. I don't see how that requires an "unknown factor".
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Vlad is also uniquely vulnerable to magical assassins because he is a moron who refuses magical protection, something most rulers have.
 
Glau said:
And if they actually did assassinations like this every decade or so
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Mathilde is over 40, this is her first time assassinating the head of a state, and the reasons for this one (Everchosen approaching + inept ruler + proactive heir + genuinely sympathetic assassin) are near-unique. Would you call Mathilde
Glau said:
nothing more than glorified kneebreakers,
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if Boris never approached her about this?
 
Normally the Ice Witches and/or the Hags and/or Priests mere presence, let alone their active protection, would have massively increased the difficulty of an assassination.
 
Abhorsen said:
EDIT: Also, does someone know how to combine the tally? People that include the secondary part of the vote aren't being combined in the tally with people who don't.
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This is because Plan is a magic word that makes the tally combine things.

[*] Bob's Your Uncle
-[*] Hug Bob

[*] Bob's Your Uncle

Those are different votes, as far as the tally is concerned.

[*] Plan Bob's Your Uncle
-[*] Hug Bob

[*] Plan Bob's Your Uncle

These are the same vote and will be tallied together (though it gets complicated if there are multiple versions of Plan Bob's Your Uncle without changing the name, a full discussion of which this margin is too narrow to contain).

I post about this every six months or so, when it comes up because people forgot about the last time I posted about it. But that's why Nighttime Visit With Style and the Locked Room Murder plans are split up and you have to combine it manually or else tally by line.
 
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Boney said:
they hold the funeral when they become an adult
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Also, I skipped over it, but I want to highlight that. That's some grim shit. Though I guess telling every ten year old how they're going to die is heavy stuff too.
Glau said:
And if they actually did assassinations like this every decade or so each, no ruler would last longer than 2-3 years without dying.

So we've either got a whole bunch of "assassins" running around who are nothing more than glorified kneebreakers, there's a lot fewer assassins than is generally assumed, or there's an unknown factor keeping rulers and nobles alive.
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The Skaven at least will mostly kill Skaven leaders. And yeah, I they probably have a lot of churn because of that, which also means they're a lot more paranoid about it.

In fact, most assassinations of leaders are going to be internal. Because if you're in conflict with an external force, it's harder, and even if you succeed there's a good chance it doesn't do anything, or makes actively come over to retaliate. The only exception is if the leader is extremely badass and critical (in which case pulling it off is also quite difficult).

Among humans, the only ones with magic super well suited to assassination are the Colleges, who are very strict about it because of it. Kislev's magic traditions aren't for sneaky assassinations, by and large.
 
BurnNote said:
Among humans, the only ones with magic super well suited to assassination are the Colleges, who are very strict about it because of it. Kislev's magic traditions aren't for sneaky assassinations, by and large.
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Baba N could probably do it, send that water spirit to drown him in the bath say, but she is special, being the Sea Hag and all. Actually speaking of her.

Baba: So I heard the Tsar died just after you visited Kislev, Lahmian they say, killed with some kind of dagger that only pierces flesh
Mathilde: *gulps... Starts coming up with deflections*
Baba: *wipes tear*Ah, killing Gospodar royalty just like old days, good times, good times. It's the little things you know, you never realize how much you missed them until they're gone.:V
 
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I will say im confused why people are saying that Boris is contradicting himself. 'leave no evidence' just means don't implicate him or yourself in vladimir's death. This is perfectly compatible with leaving clues pointing to lahmian involvement or even just signs of murder, so long as said clues dont obviously say 'the prince hired a grey lady magister to stab his dad'
 
[X] Nighttime Visit With Style
-[X] Use Mockery of Death so there is no sign of struggle, then stab him in the heart with a Shadow Knife. Leave the room by Substance of Shadows or Smoke and Mirrors, leaving behind an unnaturally quiet death
 
[X] Nighttime Visit With Style

As 'easy' and 'simple' as murdering a head of state could reasonably be. Considering the potentially catastrophic consequences if this goes wrong, I want to mess around as little as possible. Our primary objectives are killing the Tsar, getting away and not being discovered, this does all three; and the evidently magic wound (bypassing clothes) is probably enough to satisfy our secondary objective.
 
[X] Nighttime Visit With Style
-[X] Use Mockery of Death so there is no sign of struggle, then stab him in the heart with a Shadow Knife. Leave the room by Substance of Shadows or Smoke and Mirrors, leaving behind an unnaturally quiet death.
 
[X] Nighttime Visit with subtle supernatural elements.
-[X] Lay down hints that a vampire was the assassin.

[X] Nighttime Visit

I initially voted for Nighttime Visit but on looking back I'd prefer to really ensure that some minor supernatural elements are included. I'm not sure that's guaranteed with the standard and I find many of the other alternatives to be far too grandiose for a no evidence subtle assassination.

As such while a completely mundane murder at night sounds perfect but we then add supernatural elements that can be later discovered to point to a non-mundane assassin and towards a sneaky vampire. We can strangle him to death with magic (supernatural since it won't have tool or fingermarks) and arrange for someone to spot a bat flying nearby at the appropriate moment that can be discovered in a later investigation. Others can no doubt think of alternative suggestions but we wouldn't want to go overboard.
 
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WorldSlayer said:
[X] Nighttime Visit with subtle supernatural elements.
-[X] Lay down hints that a vampire was the assassin.

I initially voted for Nighttime Visit but on looking back I'd prefer to really ensure that some minor supernatural elements are included. I'm not sure that's guaranteed with the standard and I find many of the other alternatives to be far too grandiose for a no evidence subtle assassination.

As such while a completely mundane murder at night sounds perfect but we then add supernatural elements that can be later discovered to point to a non-mundane assassin and towards a sneaky vampire. We can strangle him to death with magic (supernatural since it won't have tool or fingermarks) and arrange for someone to spot a bat flying nearby at the appropriate moment that can be discovered in a later investigation. Others can no doubt think of alternative suggestions but we wouldn't want to go overboard.
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Strangulation is slow and painful, we probably do not want to go with that if we can help it. I still think the knife is the best tool to make it both a clean death and just the right amount of suspicious.
 
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