You are very much overestimating how much attention people pay to the faces in a crisis, even without accounting for the fact that Mathilde can change her face - so our enemies both have less reason to look into it and if Mathilde thinks it's going to be relevant for some reason, she can simply look like the rider instead.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
Same, plus as I previously mentioned several times in the midst of battle the mistaken identification is beneficial as it enhances the fear and thus shock value of the Riders.
Not that I think we need any other forms suggested, but I can't help but wonder how many limbs Drycha or treants in general have. It would be pretty amusing to whip out the pocket Drycha and I don't think there are any chaos or bad magic connotations with them.
@Boney
What do the steeds for the Mounted Wraiths and Knights look like? Do they all appear like shadowsteeds?
Can we add colour to them, or will they be all grey?
What do the steeds for the Mounted Wraiths and Knights look like? Do they all appear like shadowsteeds?
Can we add colour to them, or will they be all grey?
Aliya
Someone I might become
- Location
- Kazakhstan
- Pronouns
- They/She/It
Let's just make a Nazgul like we all wanted and be done with this. It being potentially mistaken for a Hexwraith is not that big a deal, and might even potentially explain to our patriarch how we came upon the idea, since their description lines up really well with what we are doing, actually.
- Location
- Australia
I'd argue Nazguls are more fearful and shocking in appearance than any grey wizard or knight, even Mathilde who's both.
- Pronouns
- He
The seviroscope section was neat!
As useful as Morrslieb sirens would be, I think there's one pretty important use case for the visual s-scope.
It should be able to let us see the moment when AV flash-decays into the Winds.
If we have the s-scope set to take a picture as triggered by an incoming flash of light, caused by the AV decay (which seems trivial for Hysh enchanting), then the only delay would be the mechanical induction of the s-scope's flash enchantment.
As useful as Morrslieb sirens would be, I think there's one pretty important use case for the visual s-scope.
It should be able to let us see the moment when AV flash-decays into the Winds.
If we have the s-scope set to take a picture as triggered by an incoming flash of light, caused by the AV decay (which seems trivial for Hysh enchanting), then the only delay would be the mechanical induction of the s-scope's flash enchantment.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I'm pretty sure they're generally humanoid.
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
Oh I agree and per my question to boney earlier it does enhance how much fear they would cause.
Boney how big physically speaking is the Rider in Red that Mathilde and Johann caught? are the horse and rider about as big as the average man and horse?
Or are they more akin to Big Jake the IRL world record holder for largest horse:
Ridden by a proverbial mountain of a man?
because that seems like a fairly important distinction.
Or are they more akin to Big Jake the IRL world record holder for largest horse:
Ridden by a proverbial mountain of a man?
because that seems like a fairly important distinction.
Our door in the Dwarf Karak, or the one in the hidden elf city? Because both would be hilarious, but that does not seem like enough reason not to go with Generic Grey Wizard.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Spiders or cats. Shadowy riders are old and busted.
As for scope, I think audio is going to be better for proving principles to dwarves, drive thru can build it themselves mostly. Plus 3d, plus ongoing. Point in time details can come once they trust that the stuff is really there and measurable.
As for scope, I think audio is going to be better for proving principles to dwarves, drive thru can build it themselves mostly. Plus 3d, plus ongoing. Point in time details can come once they trust that the stuff is really there and measurable.
- Location
- Earth
I do like the Shadow Knght aesthetic, but I think I have to go with the Dämmerlichtreiter imagery. The theming is just too good. If the face is truly an issue, we can just give it a different face or something that covers it up, perhaps a mask that with a rune of Ulgu or our coat of arms or something similar.
My take:
Audio seviroscope. Cheaper to produce, more portable many use cases, good for evaluating change over time, can be used to uncover magic that mundanes didn't even suspect was there in the first place so they can then call in a proper wizard for an examination. Sorry it's not as good for the very particular "looking at runes on the soul of an elemental" use case, but in general use it's great.
Knight on horse. Intimidating, but will not panic allies. May not even be obviously supernatural which could be good in many situations. "Dark knight" is classic shit.
Audio seviroscope. Cheaper to produce, more portable many use cases, good for evaluating change over time, can be used to uncover magic that mundanes didn't even suspect was there in the first place so they can then call in a proper wizard for an examination. Sorry it's not as good for the very particular "looking at runes on the soul of an elemental" use case, but in general use it's great.
Knight on horse. Intimidating, but will not panic allies. May not even be obviously supernatural which could be good in many situations. "Dark knight" is classic shit.
I would assume they're the size of warhorses, because it's fear of cavalry. So pretty damn chunky boys, but not as large as draft horses.Boney how big physically speaking is the Rider in Red that Mathilde and Johann caught? are the horse and rider about as big as the average man and horse?
Or are they more akin to Big Jake the IRL world record holder for largest horse:
Ridden by a proverbial mountain of a man?
because that seems like a fairly important distinction.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I'd rather engage in discussion with people about what we might like than just pick nazgul on your say-so because you find this discussion tiresome or otherwise not to your liking.
I for one am against Nazgul because I want something that will cause the least alarm reasonably possible in the eyes of witch hunters and such and will vote for something involving cats because I really like cats and I would not have considered cats if not for this discussion.
It's the 'we all wanted' that rather irks me the most.
We can pick one seviroscope ation here and try the other later, so to me its not 'which do you want?', but 'which do you want first?'
[Naturally, AP hell intensifies]
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- Pronouns
- He
[jk] Daemonette on a Seeker
This a viable option?
This a viable option?
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Pros of Mathilde Apparition
- Can act as a decoy for Mathilde on the battle field to draw fire and attention
- Can act as a body double for Mathilde off the battlefield
- Specifically, can probably be used in combination with Smoke and Mirrors to teleport out leaving a solid clone behind
- May be able to hook into Dammeritter mythos.
- Has hands so may be able to be trained to pick things up
- Might be possible/easier to train in things like Mathilde's combat style
- As looks like a Grey Wizard on a shadow steed, has greater verisimilitude when summoned in places a warhorses couldn't reasonably get to
- Shouldn't spook horses if operating alongside other cavalry
- Shouldn't be too scary for allied troops
- As a wizard, is also intimidating enough to fellow troops that they know to evacuate if it starts acting strange, given miscasts are a know thing
- Friendly troops should know how to fight effectively alongside someone shaped and equipped like Mathilde
- If codifiable, alllows the Grey College to manufacture a credible fiction of Mathilde's presence in places she's not, which might be situationally very useful.
- Very Ranaldite, has the Apparition protect Mathilde by deceiving her enemies that it's her.
Cons:
- Less inherently terrifying than monstrous or obviously supernatural options.
- If codified has the risk that a battle magic may miscast it in a way that damages Mathilde's reputation by it looking like she miscast and went berserk.
Note the last point can be mitigated by subsequent denials that Mathilde was ever there.
- Can act as a decoy for Mathilde on the battle field to draw fire and attention
- Can act as a body double for Mathilde off the battlefield
- Specifically, can probably be used in combination with Smoke and Mirrors to teleport out leaving a solid clone behind
- May be able to hook into Dammeritter mythos.
- Has hands so may be able to be trained to pick things up
- Might be possible/easier to train in things like Mathilde's combat style
- As looks like a Grey Wizard on a shadow steed, has greater verisimilitude when summoned in places a warhorses couldn't reasonably get to
- Shouldn't spook horses if operating alongside other cavalry
- Shouldn't be too scary for allied troops
- As a wizard, is also intimidating enough to fellow troops that they know to evacuate if it starts acting strange, given miscasts are a know thing
- Friendly troops should know how to fight effectively alongside someone shaped and equipped like Mathilde
- If codifiable, alllows the Grey College to manufacture a credible fiction of Mathilde's presence in places she's not, which might be situationally very useful.
- Very Ranaldite, has the Apparition protect Mathilde by deceiving her enemies that it's her.
Cons:
- Less inherently terrifying than monstrous or obviously supernatural options.
- If codified has the risk that a battle magic may miscast it in a way that damages Mathilde's reputation by it looking like she miscast and went berserk.
Note the last point can be mitigated by subsequent denials that Mathilde was ever there.
If we only care about giving the Rider a body with maximum combat capacity I would suggest using a Dragon Ogre form. Its pretty much just a draconic centaur, though i imagine it might be more useful than a normal centaur because Dragon Ogres tend to have natural armor as well as tails and claws instead of hooves.
Too bad that a proper Shaggoth would be too big for the Rider.
Too bad that a proper Shaggoth would be too big for the Rider.
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I went looking to see what a hexwraith looks like and found this:
That's a very distinct image beyond "horse rider in cloak". So long as we don't replace the sword with a scythe and don't go for a specifically, heavily skeletal look, our Nazgul-looking apparition would be pretty unlike a hexwraith in appearance.
There are enough details that anyone knowledgeable about undead that gets a good look will be able to confidently state that it isn't a Hexwraith, but there's a lot of conceivable situations where a cloaked figure on a horse that is summoned from nowhere by a magic user is easily mistaken for a Hexwraith.
None big enough to ride on.
Mathilde knows pretty much nothing about them.
It might be possible if an absolutely monstrous amount of time and effort was spent with Johann's cooperation.
It might use the arms as pincers instead of heads, but it would be viable.
By default they'd look like grey horses. If necessary Mathilde could manage black or white horses instead.
Boney how big physically speaking is the Rider in Red that Mathilde and Johann caught? are the horse and rider about as big as the average man and horse?
Or are they more akin to Big Jake the IRL world record holder for largest horse:
Ridden by a proverbial mountain of a man?
because that seems like a fairly important distinction.
The man and horse are the size of a normal warrior and a normal warhorse.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Whatever form we choose should have some utility of its own. Possible options I can think of:
- Misdirection by looking like something else
- A Grey Wizard as a decoy
- A knight of some type to positively affect morale of allies
- A known scary thing (but watch out for accusations of dark magic)
- Locomotion that allows for movement beyond that of a horse/rider combo
- Cat
- Insect/Spider
- Mountain Goat
- Monkey (Hands)
- Preserving the top part's hands or replacing them with tentacles
- Making some use of the tail
- Enhancing biting ability
- Grey Wizard on Shadowsteed with obscuring smoke/fog/mist to hide the generic face and other distinct physical features that differ from the caster
- Demigryph Knight in Knights of Judgement style armor/heraldry
- Wraith Knight just distinct enough from Hexwraiths so that we can point at it and say "see it's not what you thought" if necessary
- A fighter on a giant cat
- A spider only if it is capable of moving on non-horizontal surfaces like one
- Ulgu-flavored lizard centaur that has the physical advantages of the Dragon Ogre without looking like a known champion of Chaos
- Location
- Leeds
Alright, what about Hexwraith but pink? Its very confusing which is good for Ulgu and also easily differentiated from non pink apparitions/undead.
E: Purple would be even better because then Orks couldn't see it.
E: Purple would be even better because then Orks couldn't see it.