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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Who here wants to either be an interior spy mistress and/or assistant in reconquering the whole place?

Well, we should probably work on developing that now if we actually want it. Look at how the foreign diplomacy option has developed, for example.
 
Alratan said:
That sounds like a lot of work. Also, we'd need an almost completely trained apprentice whose master had died or sent on a critical mission, otherwise the apprentice would have to stay in the College.
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True, but if we want some sort of either a larger collaboration between Empire/Wizards and K8P, or outright chapterhouse of Colleges in the K8P, we should start somewhere. I imagine one Apprentice would be a good start, and would give us an extra pair of hands in doing research (well, aside from Liber Mortis >_>) and doing other stuff. Can force them to handle drudgery of writing papers...
Alratan said:
I fear we've missed a trick here by spreading yourself so thin. Particularly concerning is neglecting the actual real threats to Karak Eight Peaks in favour, particularly of taking human leadership options that don't really help. I think, for example, the lure of hammering the shiny Ranald option is leading us to being severely complacent. We've not seen hide nor hair of the skaven since the first battle of the expedition, and we're just sitting back and focusing on self-aggrandisement and jockeying for position, without considering that we've now given our many, many enemies the time to need to regroup, plan, and get their act together.
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We are also taking time to regroup and fortify this position though. Established K8P with trade flowing and settlement booming would be quite a boon.

Mind, I am all for spending some time on Skaven, but none of actions are useless...although going for shrine to Ranald right now seems very weird - it's very much not time-critical.



Thing that bothers me more is that the leading vote is for occupying Karag Nar penthouse. Consider the wording of them:
BoneyM said:
[ ] Karag Nar penthouse
The first possibility that leaps to mind is the uppermost dwelling of Karag Nar, with a beautiful 360-degree view and a commanding position. The Black Orc Warboss' reasons for taking it for his own are obvious, and though it will take some time and effort to clear out the possessions that hadn't been safely stowed in the King's Armoury, it is bursting with potential and would allow you to keep a careful eye on the Undumgi and Death Pass.
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This screams "choice of a mayor" to me; it is a good spot to keep an eye on the human settlement and roads, which is perfect for the settlement leader - but why would it benefit Mathilde specifically? Unless she wants to become a mayor, of course.
Next,
BoneyM said:
[ ] Karag Lhune secondary peak
The second possibility is the secondary peak of Karag Lhune that the greenskins positioned their Doom Diver battery atop. The landing pad atop it was made redundant thousands of years ago when a full hangar was built atop Karag Lhune, and it's just as redundant for modern gyrocopters as it was to ancient airships so it would be yours for the taking. The storerooms below offer plenty of room for expansion and you'd be conveniently close to the heart of the resurgent Karak.
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This places us close to the heart of Karak and gives us, unlike previous option (I think), loads and loads of room to grow. Useful if we either want to be close to dwarf parts of settlement - so, being an external affairs aide of some sort, or to have growth room in tower - say, if we want to establish College Chapterhouse, or have a truly enormous lab. A bit distant from Karag Nar, so probably a worse choice for mayor of the settlement?

BoneyM said:
[ ] Citadel Tower
Third, the Citadel is being repaired of the damage that Kragg and cannon dealt to it, as well as three thousand years of neglect, and though the two towers were once a key part of its defensibility, with the only enemy approach being within the caldera that height advantage should no longer be needed. It makes for a much more traditional Wizard's Tower than one in a mountain peak, and though it's currently part of the defensive line against the untaken parts of the Karak, that also means that there'll always be plenty of protectors on hand, and perhaps you'd like to be able to help repulse any attackers.
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That's pretty clearly a "I want to be on the frontlines" choices, I think. Bonus is that we can cast Tower + Shadows at dawn at dusk if we care to, meaning we would be a pretty terrifying help to any defense or attack.

BoneyM said:
[ ] Karag Nar temple
Your previous 'tower' was nothing of the sort, and perhaps you wish to continue that trend. If so, the site of you and Ranald triumphing over Gork and Mork would certainly be equally auspicious. It's a convenient distance from the population centers of the Karag and has a nearby side-entrance you could properly conceal and keep for your own use. (note: if you don't choose this as a tower, you can still use it in the future for a shrine or some other purpose. Nobody but you, Belegar, and Kragg know its significance, and everyone else just sees it as a former greenskin temple an inconvenient distance from the rest of the Karag.)
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That's a bit of a "hidey hole" take, which nevertheless is close enough to various settlements to leave our options open. Probably a decent choice for internal/external affairs spymaster; not great if we want more room to grow or auspicious positioning?

BoneyM said:
[ ] The Grand Abyss
If you value secrecy over all else, you could go just as far down as you can up. Deep below Karag Lhune lies the Lhune Deeps, and below that is the Grand Abyss. The Dwarves never were able to plumb the extent of its depths, and that is somewhat concerning, but it would certainly be impressive to have a tower built atop a bottomless pit.
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That's clearly either if we want loads of dangerous research or if we (like, apparently, you, @Alratan ?) want to take the fight to the Skaven before they do it to us. Very much removed from stuff above, so it's a choice awful for mayor/external politics, and great for internal spymistress/skaven offensive/loads of questionably mad science/magic.


BoneyM said:
] Und-Uzgar
Soon to be an outpost for the Undumgi, Und-Uzgar was the site of your shadow becoming outputtingly independent. Built into the side of Karag Lhune, it boasts a commanding view of Death Pass and the passage to the rest of the Karag will be excavated any day now.
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....I guess good for taking good care of Death Pass? Not sure what are the exact benefits here.

BoneyM said:
[ ] Eastern Valley tower
Though it's soon to be filled with Halfling fields and cottages, they'd be happy for you to become their neighbour, and if you want to start from scratch you certainly have enough wealth and favours accumulated to build a tower of your own.
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That's gotta be Panoramia's tower and I will vote for subsidizing her in building one there when time comes :V

BoneyM said:
[ ] The Silver Tower
Legends of the Silver Tower have been told and retold a thousand times over - the place where plucky adventurers caused the downfall of the Gaunt Summoner. You're not entirely sure if this is the same Silver Tower, but you could make a claim on it even though it is built upon the as-yet unreclaimed Karagril.
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That's just silly. o_O


All in all, I see little use in taking up Karag Nar unless we want to lead the humans here; although it is a prime spot for that.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
The royals aren't going anywhere.
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But the Amber Wizards are leaving next turn, so I'd like to understand the rationale for essentially losing them - I've seen alot of arguments for keeping them, but I don't recall seeing any for ditching them yet beyond they consume an action. Writing the papers loses it's synergy if we cannot get the Amber Wizards to stay at least for the duration of the paper-writing.
 
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HMM Okay given what Alratan posted I think is quite correct I'm going to change my votes.

[X] This is Dawongr Weber's money. The funds will largely go projects within the Karaz Ankor - your tower for one, but also investing in the Undumgi or Ulrikadrin, or purchasing goods made by Dwarven artisans or sold in the markets of Barak Varr.

[X] Karag Lhune secondary peak

[X] Claim the site where Ranald mugged Mork and build a shrine to Ranald there.
[X] There's a growing concentration of royalty here. Get to know King Kazador, and this 'Sky-Thane' Prince Gotri.
[X] Scout the rest of the Eight Peaks, to find out what other horrors are waiting out there.

Go deep on two of the options given and scout the rest of the eight peaks with the hope of going deeper on scouting plan in the next update if possible.
 
[X] This is Dawongr Weber's money. The funds will largely go projects within the Karaz Ankor - your tower for one, but also investing in the Undumgi or Ulrikadrin, or purchasing goods made by Dwarven artisans or sold in the markets of Barak Varr.
[X] The Grand Abyss
[X] Write a series of papers on the magical phenomena you witnessed. Or better yet, get your Journeymanlings to do the actual writing.
[X] King Belegar is allowing you to use the King's Armoury. Recover your extant study materials from Stirland and tuck them away safely in there.
[X] Convince Esbern and Seija to stay long enough to deal with the spiders in the Chiselwards.
 
Andmeuths said:
But the Amber Wizards are leaving next turn, so I'd like to understand the reasoning for essentially losing them. Writing the papers loses it's synergy if we cannot get the Amber Wizards to stay at least for the duration of the paper-writing.
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Oh yeah, forgot to add that before I hit save. I'll do that now. I'm just going for both reconquest options for approval voting, while the trinity is approve are papers, Ambers stay, and at least one reconquest option.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Sinsystems on Sep 29, 2019 at 10:53 AM, finished with 589 posts and 150 votes.
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Please take note of this guys. If we genuinely want to be Belegar's internal spymistress Or just help with the reconquest in general, it should probably be worked on. Alratan makes this point in the post below when he points something out we didn't realize.

Alratan said:
I don't know if people have noticed this, but I think that the options with the same italic text may build on each other and open further opportunities. We took

[ ] Travel to Karaz-a-Karak with King Belegar for the striking out of several well-aged grudges.​
This suggests a future assisting Karak Eight Peaks with foreign relations, as a Spymaster focused on threats outside the Karak.​

and unlocked:

[ ] There's a growing concentration of royalty here. Get to know King Kazador, and this 'Sky-Thane' Prince Gotri.​
This suggests a future assisting Karak Eight Peaks with foreign relations, as a Spymaster focused on threats outside the Karak.​

Similarly,:

[ ] You could help the Undumgi and the Ulricans establish themselves.​
This suggests a future assisting Karak Eight Peaks, as leader of the Undumgi and point of contact for the Ulricans.​

was then followed with:

[ ] Claim the site where Ranald mugged Mork and build a shrine to Ranald there.​
This suggests a future assisting Karak Eight Peaks, as leader of the Undumgi and point of contact for the Ulricans.​

also:

[ ] There's a lot of prime real estate currently unclaimed. Stake out a prime position for a wizard's tower.​
This suggests a future catching up on your pre-existing study topics.​

then:

[ ] King Belegar is allowing you to use the King's Armoury. Recover your extant study materials from Stirland and tuck them away safely in there.​
This suggests a future catching up on your pre-existing study topics.​

I fear we've missed a trick here by spreading Mathilde so thin, which means we're not even getting to see some of the higher tier opportunities. Particularly concerning is neglecting the actual real threats to Karak Eight Peaks in favour, particularly of taking human leadership options that don't really help. I think, for example, the lure of hammering the shiny Ranald option is leading us to being severely complacent. We've not seen hide nor hair of the skaven since the first battle of the expedition, and we're just sitting back and focusing on self-aggrandisement and jockeying for position, without considering that we've now given our many, many enemies the time to need to regroup, plan, and get their act together.
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[X] Convince Esbern and Seija to stay long enough to hatch the supposedly Lustrian eggs and study and possibly train whatever hatches.
[X] Write a series of papers on the magical phenomena you witnessed. Or better yet, get your Journeymanlings to do the actual writing.
[X] There's a growing concentration of royalty here. Get to know King Kazador, and this 'Sky-Thane' Prince Gotri.

I think this is a good mix of research and most importantly we get to network for being a future spy mistress. I can't await for intrusive to be a thing again!
 
GreenTamm said:
[X] Convince Esbern and Seija to stay long enough to hatch the supposedly Lustrian eggs and study and possibly train whatever hatches.
[X] Write a series of papers on the magical phenomena you witnessed. Or better yet, get your Journeymanlings to do the actual writing.
[X] There's a growing concentration of royalty here. Get to know King Kazador, and this 'Sky-Thane' Prince Gotri.

I think this is a good mix of research and most importantly we get to network for being a future spy mistress. I can't await for intrusive to be a thing again!
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If we want to be a spymistress we should probably actually work to be a spymistress.
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Please take note of this guys. If we genuinely want to be Belegar's internal spymistress Or just help with the reconquest in general, it should probably be worked on. Alratan makes this point in the post below when he points something out we didn't realize.
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BoneyM said:
Yes, you're frozen out as part of a Dwarf-on-Dwarf schism and as such it would be put aside for matters of Dwarf-on-everyone-else.
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So this is because we're associated with Belegar, yes? If we take part in some other dwarven reclamation efforts or otherwise win enough favor with dwarves that aren't strongly associated with Belegar, would that reduce the effect of the schism on us personally?
 
SuperSonicSound said:
HMM Okay given what Alratan posted I think is quite correct I'm going to change my votes.

[X] This is Dawongr Weber's money. The funds will largely go projects within the Karaz Ankor - your tower for one, but also investing in the Undumgi or Ulrikadrin, or purchasing goods made by Dwarven artisans or sold in the markets of Barak Varr.

[X] Karag Lhune secondary peak

[X] Claim the site where Ranald mugged Mork and build a shrine to Ranald there.
[X] There's a growing concentration of royalty here. Get to know King Kazador, and this 'Sky-Thane' Prince Gotri.
[X] Scout the rest of the Eight Peaks, to find out what other horrors are waiting out there.

Go deep on two of the options given and scout the rest of the eight peaks with the hope of going deeper on scouting plan in the next update if possible.
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Going deep on the "interact with humans" part of it is a path which suggests future as a mayor tbf...well, all your three action picks play nice with future of becoming leader of local humans, really.
Alratan makes a good point though, but OTOH I'd like to put our Journeymanling affairs in order, especially before they leave. The battle was a treasure trove of data about...loads of stuff, and I'd love to write some papers wherein all wizards from different schools can share their perspectives on what was happening.
Therein lies loads of College favours, and data is probably going to be of use to Wizards.

TotallyNotEvil said:
Guys, I've realized something.

Belegar is making his own Karaz Ankor... And Mathilde is the one bringing in the blackjack and hookers.
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huh

Well, I saw blackjack (praise Ranald), but where are all the hookers? :(
 
Quest said:
So this is because we're associated with Belegar, yes? If we take part in some other dwarven reclamation efforts or otherwise win enough favor with dwarves that aren't strongly associated with Belegar, would that reduce the effect of the schism on us personally?
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Depends how the schism develops. Time could heal or it could widen the rift. Distancing yourself from Belegar could remove yourself from it, or could mean that you end up with both sides annoyed at you.

Silver719 said:
What about repair and maintenance?

There's bound to be a couple of busted Anvils lying around that can still be forged into cohesive wholes.
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Gromril is way too precious to leave lying around. If an Anvil was beyond saving it would have been turned into weapons to avenge it.
 
ctulhuslp said:
True, but if we want some sort of either a larger collaboration between Empire/Wizards and K8P, or outright chapterhouse of Colleges in the K8P, we should start somewhere. I imagine one Apprentice would be a good start, and would give us an extra pair of hands in doing research (well, aside from Liber Mortis >_>) and doing other stuff. Can force them to handle drudgery of writing papers...
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We'd need to have dealt with the book before we have an apprentice in the building. Although phasing it inside a wall and only taking it out after turning into a shadow yourself is a pretty secure way of handling it.


ctulhuslp said:
We are also taking time to regroup and fortify this position though. Established K8P with trade flowing and settlement booming would be quite a boon.

Mind, I am all for spending some time on Skaven, but none of actions are useless...although going for shrine to Ranald right now seems very weird - it's very much not time-critical.
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Trade is important, but Belegar also has the enormous hoard we recovered from Karak Nar to pay mercenaries for years. Better to make a slower start on economic matters in return for having a more secure foundation. We need to be able to walk before we can run, and we really don't want the one after next set of major caravans to come through Death Pass to be eaten by waiting skaven who understand the value of economic warfare that we had no idea were plotting something because the only agent Karak Eight peaks has that could infiltrate a skaven warren was too busy building monuments to their god to check on them.

ctulhuslp said:
Thing that bothers me more is that the leading vote is for occupying Karag Nar penthouse. Consider the wording of them:

...

All in all, I see little use in taking up Karag Nar unless we want to lead the humans here; although it is a prime spot for that.
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I'd personally prefer the Karag Lhune secondary peak to advance long term plans for a chapter house.

ctulhuslp said:
Well, I saw blackjack (praise Ranald), but where are all the hookers? :(
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What self-respecting secret agent wouldn't have a grappling hook. Mathilde can't always Skywalk.
 
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ctulhuslp said:
Going deep on the "interact with humans" part of it is a path which suggests future as a mayor tbf...well, all your three action picks play nice with future of becoming leader of local humans, really.
Alratan makes a good point though, but OTOH I'd like to put our Journeymanling affairs in order, especially before they leave. The battle was a treasure trove of data about...loads of stuff, and I'd love to write some papers wherein all wizards from different schools can share their perspectives on what was happening.
Therein lies loads of College favours, and data is probably going to be of use to Wizards.
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We can still do both "Ambers stay" and papers and have room for, say, the "scout the rest of the Eight Peaks" option.
 
[X] This is Dawongr Weber's money. The funds will largely go projects within the Karaz Ankor - your tower for one, but also investing in the Undumgi or Ulrikadrin, or purchasing goods made by Dwarven artisans or sold in the markets of Barak Varr.
[X] This is tomorrow's problem. Let the money sit in the King's Armoury for now. Once you've decided what your future will be, then you can decide what to do with the money.
[X] The Grand Abyss

[X] Convince Esbern and Seija to stay long enough to hatch the supposedly Lustrian eggs and study and possibly train whatever hatches.
[X] Write a series of papers on the magical phenomena you witnessed. Or better yet, get your Journeymanlings to do the actual writing.
[X] King Belegar is allowing you to use the King's Armoury. Recover your extant study materials from Stirland and tuck them away safely in there.
 
There is also the fact that this major thing we've done with the reclamation WILL provoke reactions of some sort. We need actionable, modern intelligence on what's going on in the other peaks before our enemies move, not after.
 
[X] This is Dawongr Weber's money. The funds will largely go projects within the Karaz Ankor - your tower for one, but also investing in the Undumgi or Ulrikadrin, or purchasing goods made by Dwarven artisans or sold in the markets of Barak Varr.
[X] Karag Nar penthouse
[X] The Grand Abyss
[X] Convince Esbern and Seija to stay long enough to deal with the spiders in the Chiselwards.
[X] Write a series of papers on the magical phenomena you witnessed. Or better yet, get your Journeymanlings to do the actual writing.
[X] Scout the rest of the Eight Peaks, to find out what other horrors are waiting out there.
 
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