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I don't think it counts in general. Mallobaude was a Questing Knight, and he was the source of Bretonnia's downfall in canon.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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- New Brunswick, NJ
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It depends. If they are willing to join this turn, either because they have no price to join or because they are willing to join on faith in Mathilde before the price is paid (the way the Colleges sent people before we paid their prices), then yes. If they say "we'll join if you do X, but not until you do X," then no.
I think the first outcome is much likelier than the second, especially with the Father in play, which is why I want to do this now and not later.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
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- Something Clever
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I'm not Boney so I can't say with 100% certainty but like, as a general rule actions are taken in favorable order when relevant. So yes, I think it's fair to accept that if we get the Hedgewise on board this turn that'll happen before the Foundations action & therefore allow them to contribute.
so any noble can become a questing knight?
edit: if we are able to convince the nordland hedgewise to join this turn and send people which is a big if
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Codex
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I believe so. Although the standard progression is usually Knight Errant->Knight of the Realm->Questing Knight->Grail Knight, so I suspect you have to actually complete your Errantry. You can jump straight from Knight of the Realm into Questing Knight with no pause though. As long as you're a Noble and you've done your errantry, you can jump straight to go on a quest.
If it helps such a narrow vote is almost a guarantee it will pass on the next plan vote.
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- A Pit Of My Own Making
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I think my view of the current situation is: "Sucks we're not doing now, will have to do it later." I firmly believe Boney won't allow something major to sit on the backburner forever, and at some point there won't be so much stuff happening at once. Short of Mathilde dying, and I don't see that happening anytime soon, this quest can go for a very very long time. It'll be worth the wait.
Also if I try and address the back and forth discussion I'll stick my foot so hard in my mouth I'll lose teeth, so I'm staying out of it and just making funny things.
Codex
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I'm not too invested in the vote because I do want to know what's up with the seed and hanging out with Pan is always nice, and I know for sure that the thread will boil over like a tea kettle if we never use the Father, so I don't doubt we'll eventually get to it.
Wiadi
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Oh he absolutely will, if it's something like this where the ball's in Mathilde's (and therefore our) court to take initiative. If we want to see the Father face explored we're gonna have to actually vote to use it.
Mathilde was very confident that Ranald was fine with Divine examination of himself. He was not. Algard and Kurtis, who don't even know much about waystones, suggested that hey maybe these people (Who they have only partial insight into) might know something about this subject they're not an expert in.
That's really not a slamdunk or anything close to it.
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- New Brunswick, NJ
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Please read what I wrote, I literally addressed that specific example in the post. She was wrong about the specifics of what that thing led to, but not that it led to something. Boney did not red-herring us.
Yes, and you twisted it very heavily to suggest something that really doesn't bear up. Which is why I went back to it. Mathilde was highly confident in something she was very off base with. The leads people are basing things off are much thinner in this case.
It's not a red herring for people to say things in character, in this very voting cycle you were making the argument that it's our responsibility as voters to judge the likelihood of outcomes based on holistically examining things. It's not a bait and switch for Boney to have characters say things that don't turn out as they say.
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- Netherlands
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I'm not sure what you think Pikkl twisted anything into?
Pikkl suggested that Boney didn't make a habit of red herrings, and that even when characters were wrong about something that had been implied to us as a possibility, it still led somewhere. Now you're telling him he was wrong by... repeating his point as if it countered whatever point you think he's trying to make.
What's more likely—that two experienced and highly educated wizard lords believe that a secretive community of mages might have arcane traditions that will directly aid us in our mission to understand the fundamental nature of the winds of magic, or that they are both wrong and there is nothing to be gained from interacting with them?
Especially since just last turn we had a very successful interaction, not just with the hedgewise, but with their magic as well. That scrying spell was strong enough to reveal multiple divinities, including the Four. That spell alone has enormous value because it will enable the long range scrying of waystones and laylines so we can identify exactly where any issues are. And that's just one spell! Their knowledge, their lore, their traditions—their accumulated culture has so much potential to be of aid to us, and both Algard and Kurtis seem to think so too. Remember that we recruited the Jades, not to access their post-Teclisian Jade magic (which we can find in a textbook), but their pre-Teclisian druid magic. The hedgewise have the ability to contribute just as much as the Jades can, and we can't afford to ignore it—especially when we have a divine artefact that might be able to endear them to us.
Especially since just last turn we had a very successful interaction, not just with the hedgewise, but with their magic as well. That scrying spell was strong enough to reveal multiple divinities, including the Four. That spell alone has enormous value because it will enable the long range scrying of waystones and laylines so we can identify exactly where any issues are. And that's just one spell! Their knowledge, their lore, their traditions—their accumulated culture has so much potential to be of aid to us, and both Algard and Kurtis seem to think so too. Remember that we recruited the Jades, not to access their post-Teclisian Jade magic (which we can find in a textbook), but their pre-Teclisian druid magic. The hedgewise have the ability to contribute just as much as the Jades can, and we can't afford to ignore it—especially when we have a divine artefact that might be able to endear them to us.
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Anyway, an argument I wish to make in favor of the Father:
I think that it is very plausible for Waystones to have some liminal space/boundary stuff going on. If that is the case, I think it is also very plausible that any model for Waystones we try to make will be fundamentally incomplete without the knowledge of the Hedgewise, and we will have to redo the Foundations after we have recruited them.
I personally think the Hedgewise could very well be a key contributor that we cannot miss out on.
I think that it is very plausible for Waystones to have some liminal space/boundary stuff going on. If that is the case, I think it is also very plausible that any model for Waystones we try to make will be fundamentally incomplete without the knowledge of the Hedgewise, and we will have to redo the Foundations after we have recruited them.
I personally think the Hedgewise could very well be a key contributor that we cannot miss out on.
It is not like we lack people with experience in Liminal Realms already. The Grey Lords killed a dwarf army with one.
Pikkl is trying to argue there is a general principle that anything suggested/hinted as being a plausible line forward will result in something that if not exactly what was hinted at, is at least productive and adjacent to it. This is an incredible claim that I really don't agree with and doesn't seem to line up with Boney's laid out questing philosophy either.
In regards to the specific example of the Divinity issue. Mathilde had a clear monologue where she laid out as convincing rationale for why Ranald would be fine with scientific examination of gods. This wasn't even close to the end case, what he was actually fine with was letting Mathilde see some of his family tree. Trying to present that as if it's still within the same sphere of the initial plausible line of theory Mathilde advanced is a heavy twisting of things in my view.
Codex
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We don't actually know that that's what they did. It's still unknown what they did. Canon says they summoned a spirit army. Boney might have decided on something different.
I'm sure the Grey Lords are experts on their specific liminal space, that being the Dreaming Wood, but the Hedgewise are experts on the Hedge, which is a different liminal space built on boundaries, not just the soul of magical forests.
Ah, but will they tell us jack shit about liminal realms? I'd rather have a human expert at the table as well as the Grey Lords, just to even out the balance of power between us.
That is of course true, but we have no reason to believe that if waystones have something to do with Liminal Realms they are more like the Henge than the Dreaming Woods.
Codex
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We're looking for different magical disciplines to get as wide a base of understanding between disparate traditions as possible. It doesn't matter if Waystones are not related to either liminal space as long as these traditions can give us a greater understanding of magic as it relates to Waystones. We don't know how useful they'd be, but we've been gathering constant disciplines from all over without being sure that any of them would be of benefit. Being sure is not a privelige that we have.
That is adding another conditional to something that was just a guess to begin with, if Waystones have something to do with Liminal spaces and the elves are untrustworthy and there is enough overlap between the Dreaming Wood and the Hedge then maybe the Hedgewise will balance the elves
This feels like an inappropriate level of expectation to put on Boney. He's not promised us anything and had no obligation to make the Hedgefolk relevant to the Waystone Project just because they've recently been plot relevant.
Imagine going to bed one night when the option you're supporting seems to have a secure lead and coming back to find that it has been irrevocably locked out forever significantly based on what you consider spurious reasoning that it's advocates later disclaim as being valid for one time only/ mistaken when it could be turned around to something else.
The Father investigation can still possibly and probably will happen one day down the line of nothing more important is going on. We're never going to investigate the nature of the divine.
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I mean sure... but that is the reason why the Hedgewise are on the list to begin with not as far as I can tell an extra reason to get them on board now.
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This is what they actually said.
So actually Algard doesn't seem to have had any particular knowledge that they knew anything, and Kurtis talks about the recruitment practicalities only, which is less conclusive and could be read different ways. But to me is much more of a "Could take a punt if you have time" than "This has strong odds of payoff" tone.
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