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Kvinn-Wyr should be our next target (after the citadel and our local underway) but not immediately.

Once we've secured the local area we can take the next few months to fortify and call in reinforcements, notably among these we can call in Irondrakes. Once we have have irondrakes we can slowly and safely eliminate the troll problem with a minimum of casualites while we fortify the rest of the area.

Additionally while this fortification is going on Mathilde and the Dwarf rangers can take the time to scout out what's going on in the rest of the eight peaks.

Taking Kvinn-Wyr right now though would be grossly premature. Not only do we not have the appropriate forces to take it on which would cause us to suffer horrendous casualties we also have no reason to take it. Right now it's securing our flank and if we clear it out we simply open ourselves up for attack. Think of the troll filled mountain as a raging river and clearing it out as building a bridge. We only want to build that bridge when we want to cross it and right now we have no reason to do so since it will simply allow our enemies to cross it and attack us. (please don't take this metaphor too literally)
 
That is a rather arogant position since per word of GM Mathilde has no idea IC how much weaker he got or what the effects will be.

I'm arrogant for saying it's extremely unlikely that we did enough damage to permanently weaken a god by enough to matter to the expedition. OK I do not agree whatsoever and in fact find it a little funny your claiming that because to me it's for more arrogant to claim that we've permanently wounded or weakened a god if we don't know how much damage we've done.


We aren't going to be shouting this to every soldier here; we're telling the other leaders. If you think that there's a chance we've personally ticked off Mork enough for him to hold a grudge against this expedition, then that's something they need to know.

Well you have a point, what I was saying was that if there was any threat from a grudge destroying the statue would be enough to let them know that he might be pissed because gods can declare vendetta's from people destroying their important shrines and knowing that we wounded a god which can't be proven wouldn't be needed. I don't actually know if he cares at all but what I do know is claiming to have wounded a god will bring more attention down on us then we could possibly handle.
 
Don't think you can ignore honoring Ranald just because he doesn't provide mechanical bonuses anymore. It's terrible form, especially after he's saved Matilde's life before. What has she done? Almost kill him! smh

Tend the shrine. Give MORE shrines. Praise be.
Personnaly, I saw it as Ranald going: Hey, I'll have your back if you go hero hoboing, and you've prove yourself enough that'll I'll even let you choose what kind of blessing you want.
 
I really hope the human forces does not leave after taking Citadel considering how fast we taken part of the 8 peaks since after all the humans that join up was under no illusion about years of hard fighting so just letting them leave this early in exchange for dwarven reinforcements and new unknown mercenaries who haven't fought with us until now is just silly.
 
I really hope the human forces does not leave after taking Citadel considering how fast we taken part of the 8 peaks since after all the humans that join up was under no illusion about years of hard fighting so just letting them leave this early in exchange for dwarven reinforcements and new unknown mercenaries who haven't fought with us until now is just silly.
The mercs might stay on if Belegar keeps paying, but they signed up for the Expedition. If the Expedition is over, they're not going to just stay on because we finished quicker than expected.
 
That's reassuring, although I admit I have difficulty thinking of how one would fortify an underground passage to match "you have to run up to and climb a giant cliff while being shot by cannon".

Killing trolls is only costly if you have to do it fast and hard, as in a conventional battle situation. Trolls are stupid and disorganized as a rule, meaning that if we carefully whittle away at their population over the course of a few weeks instead of forcing the peak in a few hours we should be able to systematically cull them with minimal casualties. This does mean that we'll have to slow down the pace of our conquest a fair bit but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Good call that we can take the underway and not worry about rushing the interior, though; that might be useful.

Invading Karagril is throwing a gauntlet at the greenskins in Black Crag and telling them to come fight us for Karak Eight Peaks if they're hard enough, which of course they'll answer with an immediate assault with everything they can throw at us. That's not a fight I want to pick, it's not a fight Belegar wants to pick, it shouldn't be a fight anyone wants to pick. While there's only one underground junction to hold there it's vulnerable to assault from three separate directions and we know that there are at least two factions with interests in the area, so we could potentially end up under assault from multiple directions at once. Let's just not poke our nose into that meat grinder until we have to.
While I would be open to slowly whittling down Kvinn-Wyr over time I don't know if we can afford such a time and force commitment. For me personally I favor a much more aggressive approach to strategic situations. I don't want the enemy to fortify overly much and turn this reconquest into a duel defensive war that grinds on and on.

I will acknowledge your point about the meat grinder that Karagril could turn into. We most definitely don't want the greenskins in Black Crag to get riled up and come on over. If we do take the underway underneath Kvinn-Wyr we might be able to do a slap dash seal job and seal the underway away from the trolls of Kvinn-wyr. As you said trolls are disorganized but we most certianly don't want trolls to just appear in our backlines.

If we are able to seal Kvinn-wyr away from the underway we would be able move forwards and take the underway beneath Karag Mhonar. Like island hoping. Exploding upwards into Karag Mhonar would give us a solid foothold in the central caldera and give us two avenues of attack onto the city of pillars.

This would expand the routes of attack into our forces but also give us two fronts to attack the skaven. While we will always lose the number game against the skaven opening a second front against the city of pillars offers a very interesting benefit. While the skaven are effectively endless the number of skaven lords that can keep their subjects fearless is limited. Separating those lords into two fronts would likely greatly increase our ability to make the skaven break from fear. If just one of those fronts break we would be able to push through and threaten the other front likely causing those skaven to break as well.

The battles would be massive and bloody but the city of pillars is the ultimate goal for me. Taking that city would allow us to take the other peaks almost piecemeal with the winter wolves preventing any forces from linking up in the underway. and our forces being able to strike anywhere it wanted.

Expanding to one more Karag will allow us to put a great deal more pressure on the skaven in an offensive war. Expanding past that would massively inflate our underground footprint which could be a distaster with such a strong skaven presence here.

I feel the city of pillars is the lynchpin that needs to be taken as soon as possible as it effectively allows us free reign over the underway. I am in favor of aggressively pursing options that will allow us to improve our chances of taking it.
 
The mercs might stay on if Belegar keeps paying, but they signed up for the Expedition. If the Expedition is over, they're not going to just stay on because we finished quicker than expected.

I can see the Knightly orders staying since they are effectively participating in this campaign as exiles from the political turmoil gripping the Empire. And if every peak conquered yields treasures and hence bonuses for the Mercs, I can see some Mercs returning whenever Belegar builds up the forces to take another Peak. But yes, I don't see most of the mercenaries staying in between attempts to take each Peak/strong point. I doubt Belegar wants to pay Mercs for garrison duties, though some of the Mercs may well still stay in the Badland to take up jobs as supply line guards to Karak Eight Peaks against Greenskin warbands. I can see many of the Mercs joining the assault on the Citadel, and eating most of the casualties since I am sure many groups of mercenaries are going to stray off from the main assault to try to find treasure. In fact, I can see Cordin suggesting that his mercs join the first main assault wave after preliminary attacks by Mathilde and Uther's Rangers, and motivating the Mercs by appealing to their greed - remember, he still likely wants to make sure as many of the mercenaries are culled as possible, and I bet many mercenaries would want to be in the first assault wave in order to maximize their chances of finding loot. Ironically, the more mercenaries die, the healthier the state of Clan Angrud s treasuries to fund subsequent reconquests.
 
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Is it actually that difficult for humans to mass produce enchanted items (for a given value of mass produce)?

I was under the impression that different people most likely wouldn't be able to produce exactly the same item, but if one person knows one item inside out, then they should be able to produce near identical items relatively easily. It's just the latter is fairly boring hence why there's no one yet who's taken up the job of carving new staffs for the Grey Order.
Based on the time we enchanted our robes, you actually need to tailor each attempt to the item, location and your own changing skill. You'd save on the time spent doing basic research but you can't just copy the template over.

Art more than science.
Well maybe, but you don't need to be that powerful to enchant something, do you? You need to be powerful to make the big things, but cranking out lots of small items should be fairly possible. That is before we go into how even people who don't like boring may find themselves enchanting for easy money to prepare for what they plan to do.

A combination of part and full timers should see a very significant flow of magic items if they were easy to make and replicate.
More like the process of enchanting is time consuming, and noting that most human enchanted items don't really last that long in use. If you're doing it as a hobby, research or as a job that's one thing, but if neither applies its time consuming, expensive and niche per piece
On what Mathilde might have learned from examining the Anvil of Power in use the concept of, basically, items that work in three part like the Marksdwarf's Pistol (which we really should have bought as well as the revolver), with a trigger mechanism, a cartridge, and a grip, chamber and barrel to direct the magic. A runelord's magical hammer, individual rune and anvil would seem directly analogous.

Now, for now, based on this insight, Mathilde already knows the shadow chisel spell. That would seem like an eminently suitable spell to try to enchant bullets with. Or perhaps not bullets, enchant a gas check or sabot to create a miniature shadow chisel from the shadow cast by the light of exploding gunpowder that the sabot/gas check expels from the barrel. She'd need to enchant the barrel so that the chisel didn't pass through it, and the trigger to induce the enchanted sabot to activate.

Now yes, armour piercing bullets are great. The question is, does the ability to ignore non-magical armour allow them to ignore non-magical walls...

Longer term, the principle can be applied to lots of things. It's particularly useful if dealing with agents, as it means that once they run out of magical ammunition that only Mathilde knows how to make any magical equipment she gives them would become useless.
For this gig I think you're looking to use Shadow Knives instead for the enchantment base.

And IIRC the problem with multiple enchantments on one object is that by the human way of enchanting it causes a whole bunch of interference, heck, even dwarf runes cause interference if you pack enough of them together.
From my limited understanding of Tzeentch, it's entirely possible he knew that had happened before we even got to K8P, isn't it?
From my understanding of Tzeentch, its possible he knows all the possibilities and thus can't actually act on a given possibility reliably. Unlimited power, limited focus.
Wolf Friend: get a wolf companion. Unusual because you can get this multiple times
Ulric: "A man can never have enough doggo."
For reference, I really wasn't trying to imply anything beyond that the big Mork and Ranald throw down must have charged the air something fierce and that I bet Grungi and co were bemused by this manling force getting ready to go toe to toe with orcs for ancestral Dwarven homelands. Codrin basically got a speech and a new set of superstitions out of it all.
Thats what I got out of it as well. Theres a LOT of power being thrown around/readied and that's causing a bunch of freaky phenomenon to manifest in the real aside from the actual devastating effects.

Like, given Kragg's tossing of lightning around and the surprisingly well timed gathering storm, its fairly likely that he spent the buildup and prep period building up the static charge so his spell, which everyone could probably FEEL their hair standing even if they don't know what it is.
Personally speaking, I'd like to go back to the College, finish learning all of our non-battle magic spells, and then a Battle Magic Spell or two on top of that. Practice our Intrigue, try and get Advanced Greatswording, study The Book, and publish a paper on our MAP. At that point, depending on whats happening I could support further supporting Belegar and the retaking of 8 Peaks, or going off to do Snek Juice Research, or Adventuring in that order.
Can't learn Battle Magic unless:
-You sign up to be Battle Wizard. Its not an option for us.
-You promote to Wizard Lord
-You invent Battle Magic, in which case you keep the spell because hey, you invented it. This is one of the ways to progress towards Wizard Lord.
That's only if we have it set to the Gambler, though, right? It's still worth maintaining, imo, so that we can have the bonus while using one of the other faces.
The coin lets us change our blessing. Ranald gives only the one blessing.
I don't think this is really dependent upon setting lore so much as basic tactics. The relevant principle here is "you want to be able to defend as much space as possible via as few points as possible, and you want every one of those points to give its defenders the best advantage they possibly can". If you look at the map:
The Citadel is key to the overland defense of the area because it means that any ground-based assault originating from within the Karak has to charge up a massive cliff while being bombarded with artillery fire; without taking it they can bombard our overland movement with artillery instead. But notice that it creates a new point of underground vulnerability, which must be defended against attack from two directions.

Because of this, Kvinn-Wyr is a very attractive next target. Not only does it shorten our line of overland defense as we'll be able to consider the entire eastern valley secure, meaning that Karag Nar, the East Gate, and Karag Lhune all no longer need to fear attack from one direction, taking it will also allow us to effectively shorten our lines of underground defense because we can move the Citadel underground defenses pointed toward Kvinn-Wyr and the East Gate underground defenses pointed toward Kvinn-Wyr both to the Kvinn-Wyr location and point them toward Karag Mhonar. It would do a lot to mark a lot of zones enemy-free. Once that's taken the next expansion wave should probably be aimed toward sweeping Grobi Town and as many of the southern peaks as possible, because if we hold the central position then each peak that we take does nothing to increase our underground vulnerability to attack, so taking them purely marks out safe territory. But we'll need a lot more people to occupy those peaks.

Karagril is the closest from Karag Lhune but trying to take it is exceedingly dangerous, because it's got a direct underground line to the orc fortress in the next Karak over and to our other enemies in other parts of Karak Eight Peaks, and it's as vulnerable to overland assault as much as any giant dwarf mountain is, while being far enough removed from the East Valley area that taking it doesn't actually secure any new territory. Basically, we'd be establishing a fairly conflict-ridden forward position for no serious gains. The only reason to take it next would be if we don't think that we'll be able to protect Und-Uzgar and the associated road to Barak Varr unless we have artillery watching over that section of Death Pass. Arguably, Karagril should be left for the very last thing we conquer in the Karak, since it's potentially going to provoke a fight with a major external force to take it.
Kvinn-Wyr really needs whole new troop types to take, but otherwise a sensible proposition.
That said, I recall Karagril's value is that while hard to hold, it has mines and thus much more stable wealth than what we're liberating from vaults.

Mercenaries dying in battle for strategic reasons and tactical reasons is different from

Mercenaries dying because their leader was trying to get them killed in the first place ( maybe it's just war strategy and tactics or it could be something unreasonable like Codein wanting more money for those he seemed deserve it more), from the thread Codin has hinted he wants to get rid of some mercenaries for some reason.

While you have no idea if he's getting them killed on purpose or were they just casualties of war, since people don't want to bother investigating him, assuming he's innocent or guilty of conspiracy to murder is unknown.

Mathilde has a duty to humanity to fight against injustice and evil, so far since the thread didn't investigate Codrin, she is neglecting it, she may never know if he is guilty or innocent of anything. So don't assume that he has valid reasons for getting people killed, it could be greeted, racism, seeing people (racism) Sylvania a as expendable enough to throw their lives deliberately to save money.


And once again wanting to be paid handsomely is not a good enough reason for your boss to find ways to get rid of you as the main objective itself, or whatever warp ethics Codrin has that makes it ok to thin the herd, rather than dying as a effect of war to accomplish a strategic or tactical goal.
Except from what we've seen of the losses Codrin is likely using the mercenaries to:
-Recon Greenskin nests in force. They're better than the archers for it, and more expendable.
-Fight Greenskins in standard battle line
-Volunteer to do the above two in place of dwarf forces.

None of which is even slightly unusual in how you use mercenaries. They're not sent into suicidal situations or thrown away, they're sacrificed in favor of less replacable troops. He can't do more than that because Codrin's authority over them is fundamentally "and the dwarfs won't pay you if you desert". If he orders them to certain death they WILL just refuse the order.

And its not even all of them, Codrin puts the troublemakers, bandits(and keep in mind a lot of mercenaries are bandits between campaigns) and idiots in the front of the block.
Which again is pretty common, if never standard, medieval army practice to put the least liked men in front.
Imagine the report if the dice came up 1.

"Hey Belagar, I accidentally a god."
In practice Mathilde will give the report professionally, and the council will react based on their predetermined biases. A roll only comes into play if its not sure HOW they'd react.

So of those at Council:
-Most of the dwarfs are already predetermined, hurting greenskins is awesome, but the whole thing really validates their views on using sensible runecraft instead of rituals. Mathilde has been honest and trustworthy throughout all her dealings with the dwarfs, they might think she's mistaken or wrong because Umgi, but they wouldn't HAVE her on the council if they thought she'd give false testimony or brag.
--After all she ganked the goblin warboss and just described it as "the goblin with fancy teeth". She wiped out a skaven nest and said she "removed some Skaven". Based on what they've seen she's more likely to understate than to brag.

-Codrin is probably rolled. He respects Mathilde, but he also fears her and the whole business is reminding him why he fears her a lot. He'd likely believe her, but whether it improves anything is in doubt.

-Likewise, the Knights and Halflings are probably rolled, they don't necessarily know to believe her or not. Big swingy.
 
In practice Mathilde will give the report professionally, and the council will react based on their predetermined biases. A roll only comes into play if its not sure HOW they'd react.
He's saying what the report would be if the D6 was a 1; that is, the implied death of one of the involved gods. (Presumably Ranald; he's awesome and all, but I don't see him taking Mork in a fight)
 
Don't think you can ignore honoring Ranald just because he doesn't provide mechanical bonuses anymore. It's terrible form, especially after he's saved Matilde's life before. What has she done? Almost kill him! smh

Tend the shrine. Give MORE shrines. Praise be.
With the number of times ranald has saved this expedition great bloodshed, I was about to suggest we burn some favors on establishing an official shrine in the city in thanks after the nat 100 that killed the warboss goblin, before I blinked and remembered that he has absolutely nothing in common with dwarfs.
 
The mercs might stay on if Belegar keeps paying, but they signed up for the Expedition. If the Expedition is over, they're not going to just stay on because we finished quicker than expected.
While I'm fine with some Mercs leaving, the Knightly orders leaving would be a big blow due to how useful they are.
 
With the number of times ranald has saved this expedition great bloodshed, I was about to suggest we burn some favors on establishing an official shrine in the city in thanks after the nat 100 that killed the warboss goblin, before I blinked and remembered that he has absolutely nothing in common with dwarfs.
He doesn't, its true. But if we tell he stole some of Gork's and Mork's power, they'd certainly like him more than they did before. And I'd just really like to turn that area into another Shrine to Ranald. Just seems like a rather good idea to build a shrine anywhere our God beats up/mugs an enemy God.
 
before I blinked and remembered that he has absolutely nothing in common with dwarfs.
Let's see here, they hate chance, they hate thieves, they hate deception, and they've no particular need for a champion of the common Dwarf. (As far as I'm aware, the clans and guilds provide enough of a safety net that you won't see anything similar to the poverty in human towns). They also hate revolutions and the concept of radical change.

Ranald is basically made out of anti-Dwarf.
 
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With the number of times ranald has saved this expedition great bloodshed, I was about to suggest we burn some favors on establishing an official shrine in the city in thanks after the nat 100 that killed the warboss goblin, before I blinked and remembered that he has absolutely nothing in common with dwarfs.
what, do dwarves object to someone defending the defenceless?
 
With the number of times ranald has saved this expedition great bloodshed, I was about to suggest we burn some favors on establishing an official shrine in the city in thanks after the nat 100 that killed the warboss goblin, before I blinked and remembered that he has absolutely nothing in common with dwarfs.

The merchants, mercenaries, and adventurers who come to Karak Eight Peaks would appreciate a shrine to Ranald and as a joke, to Handrich, if Handrich is one long con Ranald is playing on the Bourgeoise and commercial-minded aristocracy of the Empire. Considering Karag Nar hosted the outlanders in ages past, it's probably fitting for the shrines of human gods to be erected in Karag Nar. I'd actually suggest that Mathilde honors Ranald and strike a blow at Sigmar, by also helping the Grandmaster ask the Dwarves for the rights to make a Shrine to Ulric, in addition to Ranald, as a smokescreen for Mathilde's intentions, a dissimulation Ranald would delight in, and a way to prevent the Sigmarites from gaining a foothold among the Umgi emigres of Karag Eight Peaks.

And I suspect that hoard room at the top of Karag Nar Mathilde seized would become her future Karag Eight Peaks atelier, complete with a rooftop that can support Gyrocopter or Pegasi landings.
 
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